Daniel Ricciardo
Discussion
FNG said:
2fast748 said:
This all begs the question: How can a company with so many young drivers who get short shrift if they're haven't performed in the last couple of races be stuck with 3 drivers who nobody else would (should?) actually employ?
Good observation. The very obvious answer is that Helmet culls them far too hastily and ends up with a load of drivers in F2 who have learned quickly but peaked early.
He doesn’t seem to think that anyone can be deserving if they take time to get to speed and build their skillset more slowly.
Checo = Spanish market sales + big sponsorship due to popularity
DR = Australian market sales + big sponsorship due to popularity
Yuki = they had to say yes to get Honda support up to 2026, at which point I expect Yuki will no longer be an F1 driver tbh, certainly not in a RB team car.
nnnitram said:
Ricciardo putters around to 13th place, failing to catch Sargeant. Excuses incoming in 3... 2... 1...
No excuses from me; I’ve no idea how he ended up having such an ineffective race. But Egginton seems to be supporting Daniel:Egginton said:
On Daniel's side of the garage, race day was not so straightforward. An issue was identified with his car before the race and resulted in a significant amount of work to get his car turned around for the race.
As and when they cut checo loose, it probably will be DR that takes that seat.
I'm well aware it's not on merit, but for the reasons I've already said, that's what's likely to happen.
Yuki has zero future as a red bull driver, he has zero value come the end of next season. Ironically, even if he beats DR this season and next, he's actually the driver less likely to remain in F1 - unless AMR fancy two crap drivers? It's entirely possible he'll follow Honda to AMR.
I'm well aware it's not on merit, but for the reasons I've already said, that's what's likely to happen.
Yuki has zero future as a red bull driver, he has zero value come the end of next season. Ironically, even if he beats DR this season and next, he's actually the driver less likely to remain in F1 - unless AMR fancy two crap drivers? It's entirely possible he'll follow Honda to AMR.
Redbull really do have a weak driver lineup now.
Max carrying the team,
Perez who looked like the savour they needed in 2021 now an also ran under performing
Yuki showing actual promise but no-one in the snr team wants him
Daniel, a has been which fans still think of any reason for his non performance, He clearly can't adapt like the longterm greats of Lewis, Alonso etc.
Lawson waiting in the wings still needs to prove himself imo.
Super formula
Ayumu Iwasa had some steller f2 drives but 5th in year 1 and no great improvement to 4th in year two and now sitting second in super formula a definite sideways move to avoid the stigma of 3 years f2 being a dead end.
Current f2 drivers
Isack Hadjar currently 1st in f2 and a pretty poor 14th the season before. unknown quantity yet imo
Pepe Marti currently 12th in f2 and not a great jnr history
All in all looks pretty weak unless Hadjar from now on walks the F2 championship.
Max carrying the team,
Perez who looked like the savour they needed in 2021 now an also ran under performing
Yuki showing actual promise but no-one in the snr team wants him
Daniel, a has been which fans still think of any reason for his non performance, He clearly can't adapt like the longterm greats of Lewis, Alonso etc.
Lawson waiting in the wings still needs to prove himself imo.
Super formula
Ayumu Iwasa had some steller f2 drives but 5th in year 1 and no great improvement to 4th in year two and now sitting second in super formula a definite sideways move to avoid the stigma of 3 years f2 being a dead end.
Current f2 drivers
Isack Hadjar currently 1st in f2 and a pretty poor 14th the season before. unknown quantity yet imo
Pepe Marti currently 12th in f2 and not a great jnr history
All in all looks pretty weak unless Hadjar from now on walks the F2 championship.
Why not give Ricciardo a crack at the 2nd Redbull seat, what have they got to loose, either he’s got it or hasn’t, last chance saloon.
People describing Yuki, as crap, I think is very unfair. Recently, he’s shown consistency and posted some decent results, in an average car.
People seem to like Ricciardo for his personality, I find Yuki an equally affable and likeable character, who is an asset to F1.
People describing Yuki, as crap, I think is very unfair. Recently, he’s shown consistency and posted some decent results, in an average car.
People seem to like Ricciardo for his personality, I find Yuki an equally affable and likeable character, who is an asset to F1.
isaldiri said:
skwdenyer said:
I think Riccardo should have the 2nd RBR seat because he’s no worse, and possibly better, than Perez; and a more likeable character. That’s all.
I’d gladly see Tsunoda in that seat, too; at least he’d be grateful. Ricciardo with any luck would be less obedient however.
Perez really has been shown up. Riccardo is only judged as weak because for some reason Tsunoda has turned from the most promising rookie of the year to an alleged also-ran without any obvious evidence.
So you think ricciardo would deserve that seat at red bull over his teammate that has regularly outperformed him? If you were as regularly banging the drum for tsunoda to replace Perez, it still would make sense. For you to be doing so for Ricciardo is frankly a mystery.I’d gladly see Tsunoda in that seat, too; at least he’d be grateful. Ricciardo with any luck would be less obedient however.
Perez really has been shown up. Riccardo is only judged as weak because for some reason Tsunoda has turned from the most promising rookie of the year to an alleged also-ran without any obvious evidence.
And again, tsunoda has not exactly done anything impressive to be considered anything other than a middling also-ran. If he was ‘most promising rookie of the year’, his competition was mick schumacher and nikita mazepin. Tsunoda merely needed to be not incompetent to be considered better.
Skwdenyer literally said they'd gladly see Tsunoda in that seat. What you are missing is that the Red Bull management appear to be unwilling to promote Tsunoda for one reason or another. Probably mostly his temperament- let's not forget that he chucked his car at his team-mate after the chequered flag at Bahrain earlier in the year and has struggled to keep his head throughout his career.
Red Bull have one great driver for their four cars. The other three drivers are varying degrees of middling-to-good, each with strengths and weaknesses but none standing out. They've also got Lawson who deserves a drive but who will probably get burned if they put him straight in the Red Bull.
I think it's clear that Perez is the one who should go to make way somewhere for Lawson. The question is how they arrange the four drivers between their four cars.
If they're choosing to overlook Tsunoda then it's Ricciardo, or someone else from outside the team.
Edited by Hustle_ on Monday 8th July 10:58
Forester1965 said:
daqinggregg said:
Why not give Ricciardo a crack at the 2nd Redbull seat, what have they got to loose, either he’s got it or hasn’t, last chance saloon.
Tsunoda. In the races they've both started he's finished in the points 10 times versus 3 for Ricciardo daqinggregg said:
Forester1965 said:
daqinggregg said:
Why not give Ricciardo a crack at the 2nd Redbull seat, what have they got to loose, either he’s got it or hasn’t, last chance saloon.
Tsunoda. In the races they've both started he's finished in the points 10 times versus 3 for Ricciardo Hustle_ said:
"So you think..."
Skwdenyer literally said they'd gladly see Tsunoda in that seat. What you are missing is that the Red Bull management appear to be unwilling to promote Tsunoda for one reason or another. Probably mostly his temperament- let's not forget that he chucked his car at his team-mate after the chequered flag at Bahrain earlier in the year and has struggled to keep his head throughout his career.
Red Bull have one great driver for their four cars. The other three drivers are varying degrees of middling-to-good, each with strengths and weaknesses but none standing out. They've also got Lawson who deserves a drive but who will probably get burned if they put him straight in the Red Bull.
I think it's clear that Perez is the one who should go to make way somewhere for Lawson. The question is how they arrange the four drivers between their four cars.
If they're choosing to overlook Tsunoda then it's Ricciardo, or someone else from outside the team.
Makes sense.Skwdenyer literally said they'd gladly see Tsunoda in that seat. What you are missing is that the Red Bull management appear to be unwilling to promote Tsunoda for one reason or another. Probably mostly his temperament- let's not forget that he chucked his car at his team-mate after the chequered flag at Bahrain earlier in the year and has struggled to keep his head throughout his career.
Red Bull have one great driver for their four cars. The other three drivers are varying degrees of middling-to-good, each with strengths and weaknesses but none standing out. They've also got Lawson who deserves a drive but who will probably get burned if they put him straight in the Red Bull.
I think it's clear that Perez is the one who should go to make way somewhere for Lawson. The question is how they arrange the four drivers between their four cars.
If they're choosing to overlook Tsunoda then it's Ricciardo, or someone else from outside the team.
Edited by Hustle_ on Monday 8th July 10:58
Assuming they choose to replace Checo within the next few races, the choice is really between Daniel and Yuki.
If they pick Yuki, they are admitting Daniel isn't up to it, and so that means they need to find 2 new drivers for RB in 2025 (Lawson + ???). But the problem is if Yuki doesn't cut it at the senior team then that would leave 2 holes to fill across the teams next year.
Choosing Daniel would give them a fall back option of Yuki for 2025 if things don't work out. Plus Lawson would have had the 2nd half of 2024 to show what he can do. And they could bring in a new driver for the 2nd RB seat with a little less pressure to perform.
The more I think about it, the more Daniel makes sense. Worst case he buys them some time to bring some drivers through. Best case he actually gels with the car, bearing in mind he already knows the team pretty well.
But harsh on Yuki.
C’mon, what should happen is red bull should put Carlos in with Max.
If they want Perez’ Mexican cash stick him in the RB next to Yuki but in reality he should go take them to Williams who’d want the money and Lawson should get a year against Yuki to prove himself.
The common consensus on PH is that they don’t want Carlos in with max as he’s too fast but he’s not at Max’s level. It would and should be a safe move for all parties.
Carlos is remaining tight lipped which means he must think he has some chance at either Mercedes or Red Bull.
If they want Perez’ Mexican cash stick him in the RB next to Yuki but in reality he should go take them to Williams who’d want the money and Lawson should get a year against Yuki to prove himself.
The common consensus on PH is that they don’t want Carlos in with max as he’s too fast but he’s not at Max’s level. It would and should be a safe move for all parties.
Carlos is remaining tight lipped which means he must think he has some chance at either Mercedes or Red Bull.
PRO5T said:
If they want Perez’ Mexican cash stick him in the RB next to Yuki but in reality he should go take them to Williams who’d want the money
Some interesting changes on the money side are starting to be seen.The financial reforms of F1 introduced a few years back is starting to trickle through. The need for some teams to place a driver on the basis of the budget they bring is diminishing season by season. Williams have recently said they no longer need or want to have a pay-driver but two drivers who are best for the team.
The problem is that the pool of incoming talent is currently a bit on the shallow side. F2 and F3 is currently a kindergarten of the offspring of Hedge Fund managers. That doesn't necessarily mean they're all bad drivers (Lando being the best example of this). But it does mean many are there because they can afford it rather than because they're brilliant racers.
The financial trickle down will eventually reach F2 and F3 meaning more drivers will be able to ascend on merit, deepening the talent pool available to F1.
Red Bull's success (as a brand and company) has nothing to do with the nationality of its drivers. But it is of interest to the F1 teams other sponsors (such as Oracle). My guess is that it's this that's a strong influence that's keeping him at RB rather than RB themselves.
StevieBee said:
..... But it does mean many are there because they can afford it rather than because they're brilliant racers.
Er.... when has that ever not been the case? It has always been the case that affordability has been a very significant factor in people coming through into racing. StevieBee said:
Some interesting changes on the money side are starting to be seen.
The financial reforms of F1 introduced a few years back is starting to trickle through. The need for some teams to place a driver on the basis of the budget they bring is diminishing season by season. Williams have recently said they no longer need or want to have a pay-driver but two drivers who are best for the team.
Well now, that’s what Williams have said to the media. And that’s all very well if you believe them and personally, I don’t.The financial reforms of F1 introduced a few years back is starting to trickle through. The need for some teams to place a driver on the basis of the budget they bring is diminishing season by season. Williams have recently said they no longer need or want to have a pay-driver but two drivers who are best for the team.
The drivers salary are outside the cost cap so there’s that cost to cover. That’s before you mention the sponsorship packages that certain drivers bring with them.
Williams had enough room to get over a thousand peoples names on that special livery, there would seem to be plenty of space for a few more paying stickers.
It’s ok saying oh now each team is worth a billion dollars so they can do what they want but unless it’s being run specifically as a tax loss then you want some financial autonomy and even if it is-you don’t want it to run away.
Hustle_ said:
PRO5T said:
C’mon, what should happen is red bull should put Carlos in with Max.
Oh yeah because that went so well last timeNo logic to most arguments. Its all down the the desperation to promote ones own choice.
Team managers know best. Toto worries he will spoil the development of Russell by throwning sainz in beside him for an almighty bunfight.
Horner knows max max super max is pretty fragile when challenged. Why cause problems there.
Even Leclerc seems to have dropped off since the news Lewis is on the way.
In fact the whole ferrari team seems demotivated due to the Newey rumours.
They all want the right balance. DR getting the torro rosso (cant remember what they call themselves now) drive
was like horner doing him a favour even though he left red bull in the lurch to chase the big bux.
Team managers know best. Toto worries he will spoil the development of Russell by throwning sainz in beside him for an almighty bunfight.
Horner knows max max super max is pretty fragile when challenged. Why cause problems there.
Even Leclerc seems to have dropped off since the news Lewis is on the way.
In fact the whole ferrari team seems demotivated due to the Newey rumours.
They all want the right balance. DR getting the torro rosso (cant remember what they call themselves now) drive
was like horner doing him a favour even though he left red bull in the lurch to chase the big bux.
hondajack85 said:
No logic to most arguments. Its all down the the desperation to promote ones own choice.
It's always the same on these threads. Someone say's "team x should get so and so"Someone else comes along and points out the myriad commercial and PR compatibility reasons that effect the choice of second driver, makes complete sense and is a broad and balanced view of reality.
Then someone else comes along and goes back to the binary; "yea but they're s
t, so and so would be far better".Some people can't separate their personal preference's from what is actually, objectively the best choice. Luckily TP's generally can - which is why they're TP's.
hondajack85 said:
No logic to most arguments. Its all down the the desperation to promote ones own choice.
Team managers know best. Toto worries he will spoil the development of Russell by throwning sainz in beside him for an almighty bunfight.
Horner knows max max super max is pretty fragile when challenged. Why cause problems there.
Even Leclerc seems to have dropped off since the news Lewis is on the way.
In fact the whole ferrari team seems demotivated due to the Newey rumours.
They all want the right balance. DR getting the torro rosso (cant remember what they call themselves now) drive
was like horner doing him a favour even though he left red bull in the lurch to chase the big bux.
Whilst I agree with most of what you wrote, the final statement on DR is something I think you have wrong. DR left Red Bull purely and simply because RB made it quite clear Max was the second coming, despite the fact that DR beat him the previous season (2017) and was ahead in that season (2018) as well. As we all know RB is a single driver team, therefore DR knew he would have to play second fiddle and have no chance of a WDC with RB.Team managers know best. Toto worries he will spoil the development of Russell by throwning sainz in beside him for an almighty bunfight.
Horner knows max max super max is pretty fragile when challenged. Why cause problems there.
Even Leclerc seems to have dropped off since the news Lewis is on the way.
In fact the whole ferrari team seems demotivated due to the Newey rumours.
They all want the right balance. DR getting the torro rosso (cant remember what they call themselves now) drive
was like horner doing him a favour even though he left red bull in the lurch to chase the big bux.
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