The Official F1 2024 silly season *contains speculation*
Discussion
ThingsBehindTheSun said:
Having just seen the following Video it would appear that is the 6th time Ocon and crashed into his team mate.
https://www.skysports.com/f1/video/30998/13144029/...
That is totally unacceptable.
It's obvious people here don't like Ocon but that video showed Six crashes, it didn't say that were all his fault https://www.skysports.com/f1/video/30998/13144029/...
That is totally unacceptable.
Adrian W said:
ThingsBehindTheSun said:
Having just seen the following Video it would appear that is the 6th time Ocon and crashed into his team mate.
https://www.skysports.com/f1/video/30998/13144029/...
That is totally unacceptable.
It's obvious people here don't like Ocon but that video showed Six crashes, it didn't say that were all his fault https://www.skysports.com/f1/video/30998/13144029/...
That is totally unacceptable.
But on track, he's a massive accident just waiting to happen, in my humble opinion.
Nova Gyna said:
Adrian W said:
ThingsBehindTheSun said:
Having just seen the following Video it would appear that is the 6th time Ocon and crashed into his team mate.
https://www.skysports.com/f1/video/30998/13144029/...
That is totally unacceptable.
It's obvious people here don't like Ocon but that video showed Six crashes, it didn't say that were all his fault https://www.skysports.com/f1/video/30998/13144029/...
That is totally unacceptable.
But on track, he's a massive accident just waiting to happen, in my humble opinion.
Can't argue with most of the comments against Ocon but he is quick. He seems to have the edge over Gasly and speed has to be the number 1 objective a team seeks from their driver. He has been doing this a number of years and doesn't seem to have calmed down his style. Maybe like Max he needs a couple of WDC's to make him more laid back.
Good job F1 isn't costing Renault a fortune these days or they would be long gone.
Good job F1 isn't costing Renault a fortune these days or they would be long gone.
Presuming Ed said:
Can't argue with most of the comments against Ocon but he is quick. He seems to have the edge over Gasly and speed has to be the number 1 objective a team seeks from their driver. He has been doing this a number of years and doesn't seem to have calmed down his style. Maybe like Max he needs a couple of WDC's to make him more laid back.
Good job F1 isn't costing Renault a fortune these days or they would be long gone.
I'm not convinced he is that quick. A decent midfielder, perhaps, but to stay on the grid in that position you need to bring in more prize money than your crash-damage outgoings. I'm trying to look past my bias of not liking him, but I just don't rate him.Good job F1 isn't costing Renault a fortune these days or they would be long gone.
Still Mulling said:
Presuming Ed said:
Can't argue with most of the comments against Ocon but he is quick. He seems to have the edge over Gasly and speed has to be the number 1 objective a team seeks from their driver. He has been doing this a number of years and doesn't seem to have calmed down his style. Maybe like Max he needs a couple of WDC's to make him more laid back.
Good job F1 isn't costing Renault a fortune these days or they would be long gone.
I'm not convinced he is that quick. A decent midfielder, perhaps, but to stay on the grid in that position you need to bring in more prize money than your crash-damage outgoings. I'm trying to look past my bias of not liking him, but I just don't rate him.Good job F1 isn't costing Renault a fortune these days or they would be long gone.
Anyhow, sounds like his Frenchness might not keep him safe: https://www.planetf1.com/news/martin-brundles-warn...
TheDeuce said:
He's surely chiefly there because Renault/Alpine, part french state owned, really like having French drivers.
Anyhow, sounds like his Frenchness might not keep him safe: https://www.planetf1.com/news/martin-brundles-warn...
Bench him and let Jack Doohan have a go as I suspect he will have the drive next year anyway.Anyhow, sounds like his Frenchness might not keep him safe: https://www.planetf1.com/news/martin-brundles-warn...
Ocon is a hot-head but he's pretty good. He ran Alonso very close when they were team-mates and he won a race there whilst having Alonso as a team-mate. I don't think any team-mate has shown Ocon up. Of all of the drivers on the grid, he is the one who has come from the least wealthy background which might partially explain his personal brand of 'f
k you' tenacity. I wouldn't be quick to let him go despite his red mist moments.
The Ocon Gasly partnership was never going to go well. This was obvious to all except Alpine, who fell into this uncomfortable situation by fumbling both Alonso and Piastri.
It is Alpine who deserves the criticism here. They were responsible for the driver line-up, they were responsible for building this torture device of a car which has both drivers fighting for their careers... For years I have been saying that Lotus / Renault / Alpine is a proper team and that they will improve, but apart from the drivers at this point there is not a lot left to get behind. I'm glad Laurent Rossi is now out of the picture as he appeared to be a weapon of the highest order. The exodus of talent and revolving door of team principals that he presided over- Abiteboul / Brivio / Budkowski / Szafnauer... but who has any faith in this Bruno Famin bloke, promoted to team principal apparently by default having done so well leading Viry
Another difficult season for anybody left in the team, only this time with their engine disadvantage it is less probable than ever that they can develop their way to a top-10 car in the second half of the season as they have in previous years.
A team which is surely heading for an acquisition in some form or another. No wonder the drivers are fighting like rats in a sack- cicumstances have lit a fire under them both.
k you' tenacity. I wouldn't be quick to let him go despite his red mist moments. The Ocon Gasly partnership was never going to go well. This was obvious to all except Alpine, who fell into this uncomfortable situation by fumbling both Alonso and Piastri.
It is Alpine who deserves the criticism here. They were responsible for the driver line-up, they were responsible for building this torture device of a car which has both drivers fighting for their careers... For years I have been saying that Lotus / Renault / Alpine is a proper team and that they will improve, but apart from the drivers at this point there is not a lot left to get behind. I'm glad Laurent Rossi is now out of the picture as he appeared to be a weapon of the highest order. The exodus of talent and revolving door of team principals that he presided over- Abiteboul / Brivio / Budkowski / Szafnauer... but who has any faith in this Bruno Famin bloke, promoted to team principal apparently by default having done so well leading Viry
Another difficult season for anybody left in the team, only this time with their engine disadvantage it is less probable than ever that they can develop their way to a top-10 car in the second half of the season as they have in previous years.
A team which is surely heading for an acquisition in some form or another. No wonder the drivers are fighting like rats in a sack- cicumstances have lit a fire under them both.
TheDeuce said:
He's surely chiefly there because Renault/Alpine, part french state owned, really like having French drivers.
Anyhow, sounds like his Frenchness might not keep him safe: https://www.planetf1.com/news/martin-brundles-warn...
A bit of a hot-air non-article there using Brundle's quotes (I'm not familiar with planetf1: are they traditionally noise-generators?), but there's been enough noise about Famin's conversations with Doohan to put the shivers on Ocon, I hope.Anyhow, sounds like his Frenchness might not keep him safe: https://www.planetf1.com/news/martin-brundles-warn...
Still Mulling said:
TheDeuce said:
He's surely chiefly there because Renault/Alpine, part french state owned, really like having French drivers.
Anyhow, sounds like his Frenchness might not keep him safe: https://www.planetf1.com/news/martin-brundles-warn...
A bit of a hot-air non-article there using Brundle's quotes (I'm not familiar with planetf1: are they traditionally noise-generators?), but there's been enough noise about Famin's conversations with Doohan to put the shivers on Ocon, I hope.Anyhow, sounds like his Frenchness might not keep him safe: https://www.planetf1.com/news/martin-brundles-warn...
“It’s sad to see this kind of incident,” he told Canal+."
“It’s exactly what we didn’t want to see. Esteban’s attack was totally out of circumstances."
“It was exactly what we didn’t want to see and we’re going to draw the consequences. We’re going to make a tough decision."
A TP berating their own driver publicly like that is always a last resort to try and get them to sort themselves out - or to simply brace the F1 world for news of their imminent departure.
The bit about him being seen talking with Doohan.. well I'm sure he talks to Doohan most weekends of course - but on this occasion it's hard to imagine the conversation could have been about anything other than the potential of getting Doohan into the car, for the sake of getting Ocon out of it - at least temporarily.
I suppose we'll find out very soon one way or the other. Giving Doohan some seat time ahead of the summer break does make sense though, just in case they wanted to make a bigger announcement over the summer break regards Ocon...
I think Ocon has fallen out with every F1 team mate he's had - Alonso included (who I mention in particular, given the spectacular job he did as a rear-gunner for Ocon's solitary F1 win in Hungary)
Yes, he and Gasly don't like each other but I am coming to the impression that Ocon doesn't like anybody.
He still reminds me of Grosjean - quick on his day, but too prone to rubbing people up the wrong way and carrying the distinct air of a constant chip on his shoulder.
I don't think he'll be dropped mid-season. I think Famin was alluding to his contract not being renewed, leaving him free to look elsewhere for 2024. That means that if Haas or Audi don't want him, he's out of F1.
Yes, he and Gasly don't like each other but I am coming to the impression that Ocon doesn't like anybody.
He still reminds me of Grosjean - quick on his day, but too prone to rubbing people up the wrong way and carrying the distinct air of a constant chip on his shoulder.
I don't think he'll be dropped mid-season. I think Famin was alluding to his contract not being renewed, leaving him free to look elsewhere for 2024. That means that if Haas or Audi don't want him, he's out of F1.
TheDeuce said:
I have no particular opinion on planetf1 tbh. The bit that I thought was relevant from that article was the link to another article containing the direct quotes from Famin:
“It’s sad to see this kind of incident,” he told Canal+."
“It’s exactly what we didn’t want to see. Esteban’s attack was totally out of circumstances."
“It was exactly what we didn’t want to see and we’re going to draw the consequences. We’re going to make a tough decision."
A TP berating their own driver publicly like that is always a last resort to try and get them to sort themselves out - or to simply brace the F1 world for news of their imminent departure.
The bit about him being seen talking with Doohan.. well I'm sure he talks to Doohan most weekends of course - but on this occasion it's hard to imagine the conversation could have been about anything other than the potential of getting Doohan into the car, for the sake of getting Ocon out of it - at least temporarily.
I suppose we'll find out very soon one way or the other. Giving Doohan some seat time ahead of the summer break does make sense though, just in case they wanted to make a bigger announcement over the summer break regards Ocon...
Fair one. I didn't click through. (I'm not sure I noticed the hyperlink amongst the multitude of other links! “It’s sad to see this kind of incident,” he told Canal+."
“It’s exactly what we didn’t want to see. Esteban’s attack was totally out of circumstances."
“It was exactly what we didn’t want to see and we’re going to draw the consequences. We’re going to make a tough decision."
A TP berating their own driver publicly like that is always a last resort to try and get them to sort themselves out - or to simply brace the F1 world for news of their imminent departure.
The bit about him being seen talking with Doohan.. well I'm sure he talks to Doohan most weekends of course - but on this occasion it's hard to imagine the conversation could have been about anything other than the potential of getting Doohan into the car, for the sake of getting Ocon out of it - at least temporarily.
I suppose we'll find out very soon one way or the other. Giving Doohan some seat time ahead of the summer break does make sense though, just in case they wanted to make a bigger announcement over the summer break regards Ocon...
) Famin was undeniably brutal. I neither expect (nor hope) to see Ocon on the grid next year.As to the oft-referenced story about the sacrifices he and his family have made to get him to F1 compared to others: constantly playing on those sob-stories smacks of a victim mentality, as does using them as an excuse for needing to be more aggressive/determined, or however it is chosen to be framed after the latest incident.
Still Mulling said:
Fair one. I didn't click through. (I'm not sure I noticed the hyperlink amongst the multitude of other links! ) Famin was undeniably brutal. I neither expect (nor hope) to see Ocon on the grid next year.
As to the oft-referenced story about the sacrifices he and his family have made to get him to F1 compared to others: constantly playing on those sob-stories smacks of a victim mentality, as does using them as an excuse for needing to be more aggressive/determined, or however it is chosen to be framed after the latest incident.
Indeed, I was surprised to read the severity of what he said about Ocon too. And despite it being in French, only so much can be lost in translation - talking about needing to make a 'tough decision' is never good!) Famin was undeniably brutal. I neither expect (nor hope) to see Ocon on the grid next year.As to the oft-referenced story about the sacrifices he and his family have made to get him to F1 compared to others: constantly playing on those sob-stories smacks of a victim mentality, as does using them as an excuse for needing to be more aggressive/determined, or however it is chosen to be framed after the latest incident.
As for his back story and hard work to get into F1 etc, it's only really an inspirational, heart warming story if the end result of the journey is a well rated, likeable and respected driver finding their way into the sport. So it works for Lewis Hamilton - it doesn't really work for an aggressive sod like Ocon!
Still Mulling said:
Fair one. I didn't click through. (I'm not sure I noticed the hyperlink amongst the multitude of other links! ) Famin was undeniably brutal. I neither expect (nor hope) to see Ocon on the grid next year.
As to the oft-referenced story about the sacrifices he and his family have made to get him to F1 compared to others: constantly playing on those sob-stories smacks of a victim mentality, as does using them as an excuse for needing to be more aggressive/determined, or however it is chosen to be framed after the latest incident.
The only time he has been a victim was when Toto Wolff kept him on the bench with a promise of a drive) Famin was undeniably brutal. I neither expect (nor hope) to see Ocon on the grid next year.As to the oft-referenced story about the sacrifices he and his family have made to get him to F1 compared to others: constantly playing on those sob-stories smacks of a victim mentality, as does using them as an excuse for needing to be more aggressive/determined, or however it is chosen to be framed after the latest incident.
Still Mulling said:
TheDeuce said:
He's surely chiefly there because Renault/Alpine, part french state owned, really like having French drivers.
Anyhow, sounds like his Frenchness might not keep him safe: https://www.planetf1.com/news/martin-brundles-warn...
A bit of a hot-air non-article there using Brundle's quotes (I'm not familiar with planetf1: are they traditionally noise-generators?), but there's been enough noise about Famin's conversations with Doohan to put the shivers on Ocon, I hope.Anyhow, sounds like his Frenchness might not keep him safe: https://www.planetf1.com/news/martin-brundles-warn...
Muzzer79 said:
I think Ocon has fallen out with every F1 team mate he's had - Alonso included (who I mention in particular, given the spectacular job he did as a rear-gunner for Ocon's solitary F1 win in Hungary)
[…]
.
A year later, at the same track, he demonstrated a spectacularly short memory and lack of gratitude for Alonso’s efforts by unnecessarily defending against Alonso, costing the team and both drivers points. […]
.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Ocon’s antics had something to do with Alonso going to Aston. Although a 2-year deal, Lance as a teammate and a huge bag of cash might have crossed his mind too, I suppose.
Adrian W said:
Still Mulling said:
TheDeuce said:
He's surely chiefly there because Renault/Alpine, part french state owned, really like having French drivers.
Anyhow, sounds like his Frenchness might not keep him safe: https://www.planetf1.com/news/martin-brundles-warn...
A bit of a hot-air non-article there using Brundle's quotes (I'm not familiar with planetf1: are they traditionally noise-generators?), but there's been enough noise about Famin's conversations with Doohan to put the shivers on Ocon, I hope.Anyhow, sounds like his Frenchness might not keep him safe: https://www.planetf1.com/news/martin-brundles-warn...
But in this instance, it's a direct quote from the TP, whatever fluff the article adds to it.
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