Official 2024 Austrian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

[honda_exige]

thegreenhell said:

honda_exige said:

For the hard of reading, the fault certainly lies on Max. No argument with the penalty either - but why is Sainz (as just one example) doing the same overlooked?

Derek, do you think Sainz deserved a 10 sec penalty for the above? Yes/no. I'll remind you that F1 Stewarding is supposed to be done blind of outcome.

The stewards have been fairly consistent in not penalising for the specific offence of moving under braking when no collision occurred..

So why all the moaning on here then?

I'm fairly happy with light touch stewarding, had Max turned in on the Lando divebomb, Lando would therefore likely have received a penalty correct? For causing a collision.

Let them race. Occasionally cars will touch, then dish out a penalty. Lando had way more than enough room to avoid contact but he is fairly inexperienced at wheel to wheel at the sharp end, he will learn from this.

[jasonrobertson86]

honda_exige said:

So why all the moaning on here then?

I'm fairly happy with light touch stewarding, had Max turned in on the Lando divebomb, Lando would therefore likely have received a penalty correct? For causing a collision.

Let them race. Occasionally cars will touch, then dish out a penalty. Lando had way more than enough room to avoid contact but he is fairly inexperienced at wheel to wheel at the sharp end, he will learn from this.

What will he learn? You cant pass a car weaving around into a bend?

[honda_exige]

jasonrobertson86 said:

honda_exige said:

So why all the moaning on here then?

I'm fairly happy with light touch stewarding, had Max turned in on the Lando divebomb, Lando would therefore likely have received a penalty correct? For causing a collision.

Let them race. Occasionally cars will touch, then dish out a penalty. Lando had way more than enough room to avoid contact but he is fairly inexperienced at wheel to wheel at the sharp end, he will learn from this.

What will he learn? You cant pass a car weaving around into a bend?

See 23 Sainz/Max above. You can be correct and out the race or pragmatic and pass on the next straight.

[NRS]

honda_exige said:

jasonrobertson86 said:

honda_exige said:

So why all the moaning on here then?

I'm fairly happy with light touch stewarding, had Max turned in on the Lando divebomb, Lando would therefore likely have received a penalty correct? For causing a collision.

Let them race. Occasionally cars will touch, then dish out a penalty. Lando had way more than enough room to avoid contact but he is fairly inexperienced at wheel to wheel at the sharp end, he will learn from this.

What will he learn? You cant pass a car weaving around into a bend?

See 23 Sainz/Max above. You can be correct and out the race or pragmatic and pass on the next straight.

Not when the performance isn’t there. Or they also move on the straight. Or brake check you in the worst case.

[jasonrobertson86]

NRS said:

Not when the performance isn’t there. Or they also move on the straight. Or brake check you in the worst case.

Exactly, you cannot pass someone determined to weave around and use their car as a weapon to block you.

[boyse7en]

jasonrobertson86 said:

honda_exige said:

So why all the moaning on here then?

I'm fairly happy with light touch stewarding, had Max turned in on the Lando divebomb, Lando would therefore likely have received a penalty correct? For causing a collision.

Let them race. Occasionally cars will touch, then dish out a penalty. Lando had way more than enough room to avoid contact but he is fairly inexperienced at wheel to wheel at the sharp end, he will learn from this.

What will he learn? You cant pass a car weaving around into a bend?

I guess he will learn that MV will drive like an idiot when under pressure.
Shame really, I thought Max had matured over the last couple of seasons but it seems that actually he is still unable to drive clean when challenged.

Norris was sensible enough to hand back the lead after passing off track, Max didn't see fit to do the same.
And then he reverted to type by just driving like he was the only car on track and expected everyone else to just keep out of the way.
DC says it is "hard racing", but really it isn't, it's just poor racing.

[Dingu]

honda_exige said:

jasonrobertson86 said:

honda_exige said:

So why all the moaning on here then?

I'm fairly happy with light touch stewarding, had Max turned in on the Lando divebomb, Lando would therefore likely have received a penalty correct? For causing a collision.

Let them race. Occasionally cars will touch, then dish out a penalty. Lando had way more than enough room to avoid contact but he is fairly inexperienced at wheel to wheel at the sharp end, he will learn from this.

What will he learn? You cant pass a car weaving around into a bend?

See 23 Sainz/Max above. You can be correct and out the race or pragmatic and pass on the next straight.

So don’t go for it because the driver in front is crap at wheel to wheel racing/cheats?

[jm doc]

honda_exige said:

thegreenhell said:

honda_exige said:

For the hard of reading, the fault certainly lies on Max. No argument with the penalty either - but why is Sainz (as just one example) doing the same overlooked?

Derek, do you think Sainz deserved a 10 sec penalty for the above? Yes/no. I'll remind you that F1 Stewarding is supposed to be done blind of outcome.

The stewards have been fairly consistent in not penalising for the specific offence of moving under braking when no collision occurred..

So why all the moaning on here then?

I'm fairly happy with light touch stewarding, had Max turned in on the Lando divebomb, Lando would therefore likely have received a penalty correct? For causing a collision.

Let them race. Occasionally cars will touch, then dish out a penalty. Lando had way more than enough room to avoid contact but he is fairly inexperienced at wheel to wheel at the sharp end, he will learn from this.

Not penalising leaving the track and gaining an advantage is not light touch, it's blatant cheating.

[isaldiri]

NRS said:

isaldiri said:

honda_exige said:

If F1 want to punish moving under braking then do it all the time not just when the front 2 are racing.

Eg, Sainz moves under braking all the time but never gets picked up on it, see Austria last year for just one example of many.

Ah cmon, as you well know, it's a case of 'my' driver is never in the wrong and always fair especially compared to whoever beat him ....

But it always tends to be Max, whereas the other driver changes? How does that fit?

Well I think it’s been quite obvious that some fans of one driver particularly have it in for Verstappen and are determined to always find fault and decry everything he does. And before you ask, yes the same happens to Hamilton too so between the 2 sets of fans, it gets a bit difficult to attempt to have a reasonable discussion about anything involving either driver sometimes.

[Ken_Code]

honda_exige said:

See 23 Sainz/Max above. You can be correct and out the race or pragmatic and pass on the next straight.

Why on Earth are you suggesting that he’d only weave on the one straight?

[paulguitar]

I couldn't watch live today so I just caught up.


Firstly, it was superb to get a race for the lead after what had looked like being rather a dull weekend.


Verstappen, having gained respect recently from some genuinely superb drives, reverted to type when finally faced with acute competition. It's disappointing. So much talent, but still, sadly, significantly flawed.


Horner has a job to do but surely backing one's driver must have limits? If the roles had been reversed he'd have been apoplectic with the driver (irrespective of who it was) who'd behaved as Max did. Andrea Stella, by contrast, came over as being admirably restrained, well-balanced, factual, and concise.


Overall, it's been great for the sport to have some racing again. Roll on Silverstone.

[DeejRC]

TheDeuce said:

breamster said:

mk1coopers said:

Well there you go, the question answered, of course MV was going to revert straight back to type as soon as there was any competition, what needs to happen now is effective punishments that either impact the race live, or the next race, as today all that happened was his lead in the championship extended.

Everyone predicted it. Verstappen is just a dirty driver. No sportsmanship at all.

Indeed. I don't dislike him, I respect his talent greatly. But for all the coaching and experience and support he receives, he will never change from who he fundamentally is. He's an aggressive sod who will play dirty when he feels a result is slipping through his fingers. He'd rather win dirty than lose fairly.

Have you ever watched professional sport at the elite levels? 99% of those who compete and earn their money in it would rather win dirty than lose fairly. 98% of the fans of those teams, players, sports would also rather win dirty than lose fairly. 101% of team owners/managers would rather win dirty than lose fairly.
Nobody cares if you lost fairly apart from those who are irrelevant. And they are irrelevant not because they care, or are morals or have ethics, they are irrelevant because nobody else cares.
Do you know who cares the least in all this? Liberty. As far as they are concerned this is the best thing to happen since ‘21. Do you know who cares the 2nd least? BRDC. Right now they are cracking open the champagne for the £££storm heading their way because “the fans” are animated. They are revved up & buzzing. Everybody, everywhere in the business of flogging st knows that the more animated your market is, the more energised, hyped up the punters are then the more they will invest, the more dosh they will spend.
Welcome to the brutality of life. Otherwise known as professional sport.

[TheDeuce]

paulguitar said:

I couldn't watch live today so I just caught up.


Firstly, it was superb to get a race for the lead after what had looked like being rather a dull weekend.


Verstappen, having gained respect recently from some genuinely superb drives, reverted to type when finally faced with acute competition. It's disappointing. So much talent, but still, sadly, significantly flawed.


Horner has a job to do but surely backing one's driver must have limits? If the roles had been reversed he'd have been apoplectic with the driver (irrespective of who it was) who'd behaved as Max did. Andrea Stella, by contrast, came over as being admirably restrained, well-balanced, factual, and concise.


Overall, it's been great for the sport to have some racing again. Roll on Silverstone.

If the roles were reversed Horny would be talking about attempted murder again

That guy's days are numbered. The world could stomach his BS to a point... But now the world has a mental picture of him shuffling one out in an airplane toilet and texting his PA about it. So now his smug face is far less comfortable, whatever comes out of his mouth.

He needs to shuffle off. Ideally in private this time.

[TheDeuce]

DeejRC said:

TheDeuce said:

breamster said:

mk1coopers said:

Well there you go, the question answered, of course MV was going to revert straight back to type as soon as there was any competition, what needs to happen now is effective punishments that either impact the race live, or the next race, as today all that happened was his lead in the championship extended.

Everyone predicted it. Verstappen is just a dirty driver. No sportsmanship at all.

Indeed. I don't dislike him, I respect his talent greatly. But for all the coaching and experience and support he receives, he will never change from who he fundamentally is. He's an aggressive sod who will play dirty when he feels a result is slipping through his fingers. He'd rather win dirty than lose fairly.

Have you ever watched professional sport at the elite levels? 99% of those who compete and earn their money in it would rather win dirty than lose fairly. 98% of the fans of those teams, players, sports would also rather win dirty than lose fairly. 101% of team owners/managers would rather win dirty than lose fairly.
Nobody cares if you lost fairly apart from those who are irrelevant. And they are irrelevant not because they care, or are morals or have ethics, they are irrelevant because nobody else cares.
Do you know who cares the least in all this? Liberty. As far as they are concerned this is the best thing to happen since ‘21. Do you know who cares the 2nd least? BRDC. Right now they are cracking open the champagne for the £££storm heading their way because “the fans” are animated. They are revved up & buzzing. Everybody, everywhere in the business of flogging st knows that the more animated your market is, the more energised, hyped up the punters are then the more they will invest, the more dosh they will spend.
Welcome to the brutality of life. Otherwise known as professional sport.

I actually agree with nearly all of that.

I just don't respect the driver that drives a certain way and wins a certain way.

Commercially it all makes complete sense. It also makes sense why Max is cut a lot of slack.

Please don't be so stupid as to assume my personal preference for sporting integrity means I don't also have a realistic level of commercial awareness.

[phil1979]

That was some ugly driving from Max. Was hoping Norris would get the win today. That's gonna be a fractured friendship now, it seems.

[i_alan_i]

Sandpit Steve said:

wevster said:

Max will take Lando out again, Max has the lead in the championship and even if they both go out Max retains his lead.

That’s how he works .

Well it was Lando’s turn this weekend.

Let’s have George do it next weekend, Charles the weekend after that, then Oscar, Lewis, Carlos…

Have someone turn their engine up every weekend, with the primary job of taking out the until he learns to play fair.

Exactly, I said similar earlier today, and after the first race of the season. Not deliberately taking him out, but race him according to
Verstappen rules. If we keep taking about this, the media will start to pick up on the idea, it'll grow momentum, the driver's will get asked and start to think about it, and maybe there's a chance this championship gets exciting.

[Big Nanas]

It's also worth noting Rachael Brookes interview of Max where she clearly and simply asked Max about 'moving under braking'.
Was lovely to see some simple, hard questions directly asked.

[Diderot]

Big Nanas said:

It's also worth noting Rachael Brookes interview of Max where she clearly and simply asked Max about 'moving under braking'.
Was lovely to see some simple, hard questions directly asked.

Adn Ted nailed it in his notebook.

[ajprice]

[MiniMan64]

I thought Max had grown up and matured a bit with his championships but clearly the same dirty driver still lurks beneath.

That was some very crappy unfair racing from him today in several spots. He really is unpleasant to watch when challenged. Let’s not forgot he was already refusing to return the lead to Norris after overtaking off track a few laps before the final incident.