Christian Horner

[PhilAsia]

732NM said:

Boom78 said:

All quite disingenuous about Horner. I repeat again, I’m no fan of the guy (slimy now sleaze) but he built that team from ground zero, he recruited the talent, created the framework, defined the strategy and made the decisions and ultimately made RB what it is today. And before anyone starts with the whole ‘he didn’t do it himself’, ‘it was Adrian’, ‘he had a blank cheque’ he is at the helm and provides the direction, structure, safety net and makes the decisions. I ask again; do you REALLY care about the PA or is it just an opportunity to put the boot in?

Why would you not care about the PA in such circumstances. She is a real person who is going through a stty time.

Beggars belief doesn't it!?

[PhilAsia]

732NM said:

DonkeyApple said:

At no point have I said the messages should be discounted.

You have.

DonkeyApple said:

As such the only sane action is that they must be discounted and held to the side until further evidence to support and corroborate comes to light.

SLAM DUNK!!

So DA is not "sane" then, if he is to be believed. Marvelous stuff!!

Thanks DA.

[DonkeyApple]

732NM said:

DonkeyApple said:

At no point have I said the messages should be discounted.

You have.

DonkeyApple said:

As such the only sane action is that they must be discounted and held to the side until further evidence to support and corroborate comes to light.

Thank you for quoting correctly. You can see clearly there is an overt caveat to the act of discounting as outlined very clearly in the second half of the sentence. What you were seeking to claim was that this caveat did not exist and that I was stating that the messages should be discounted in full, in perpetuity.

Thank you. A smaller man would not have had the gravitas to post that quote in full nor apologise but have edited it to try and fit their erroneous view.

[DonkeyApple]

732NM said:

DonkeyApple said:

Likewise with the fact that if the chap was wanting to get his rocks off on an away fixture, it being wiser to hire professional services than seeking to use a junior employee? Would seem the rather more sensible of the two silly behaviours would it not?

Again, that information about him wanting to get his rocks off, comes from the messages you say should be discounted, even though you try to deny you wrote that. You appear confused.

As of yet there is no clear proof so one has to wait.

Again, thank you for posting the full context and not removing the word 'If' which defines the sentence.

We don't know but what we can say is that if that was his intent then there are smarter ways to go about it that don't involve junior members of staff.

[lauda]

Some impressive dancing on the head of a pin going on here.

[732NM]

DonkeyApple said:

732NM said:

DonkeyApple said:

At no point have I said the messages should be discounted.

You have.

DonkeyApple said:

As such the only sane action is that they must be discounted and held to the side until further evidence to support and corroborate comes to light.

Thank you for quoting correctly. You can see clearly there is an overt caveat to the act of discounting as outlined very clearly in the second half of the sentence. What you were seeking to claim was that this caveat did not exist and that I was stating that the messages should be discounted in full, in perpetuity.

Thank you. A smaller man would not have had the gravitas to post that quote in full nor apologise but have edited it to try and fit their erroneous view.

That's some very poor written gymnastics you're trying to execute there. I'll score it a 3 just for the brass neck content.

[Wills2]

Horner isn't in a great place after this, AN leaving doesn't look good no matter what spin he puts on it, I think any normal person would have walked or at least come out swinging as you'd want your side of the story out there, yet he hides behind PR speak.

Clearly he sees an exit route via the sale/disposal of RBT away from the wider RB group because this won't stop, until he is out or RBT is out of RB.

[DonkeyApple]

732NM said:

That's some very poor written gymnastics you're trying to execute there. I'll score it a 3 just for the brass neck content.

?

It's pretty clear for all to be honest. Lynch mobs are for Jeremy Kyle absorbers, everyone else, who is normal just puts the limited evidence to once side while awaiting further clarity.

There's no gymnastics required unless some folks struggle with basic English and choose to live a headline at a time. Which would be very sad.

[732NM]

It's far more than pretty clear you've been contradicting yourself, and are now trying to deflect rather than take it on the chin.

[DonkeyApple]

732NM said:

It's far more than pretty clear you've been contradicting yourself, and are now trying to deflect rather than take it on the chin.

Despite there being no evidence for that and you yourself quoted the precise evidence that contradicts your view.

The only hole digging is coming from the tabloid lynch mob who appears distressed that others are sensibly saying to wait for further context before hanging someone, even if one suspects they're guilty. It's what separates a civilised society from an idiocracy. It's just time. All people have to do wait. But to some waiting is too difficult and they can't compute such nuances. What they want to do, like any baying and simple mob is to not wait but simply leap to conclusions and use partial evidence to try and support a flawed view.

[HighwayStar]

DonkeyApple said:

732NM said:

It's far more than pretty clear you've been contradicting yourself, and are now trying to deflect rather than take it on the chin.

Despite there being no evidence for that and you yourself quoted the precise evidence that contradicts your view.

The only hole digging is coming from the tabloid lynch mob who appears distressed that others are sensibly saying to wait for further context before hanging someone, even if one suspects they're guilty. It's what separates a civilised society from an idiocracy. It's just time. All people have to do wait. But to some waiting is too difficult and they can't compute such nuances. What they want to do, like any baying and simple mob is to not wait but simply leap to conclusions and use partial evidence to try and support a flawed view.

It’s pretty clear to me what you were saying… not at all what others are saying in my view.

[PhilAsia]

HighwayStar said:

DonkeyApple said:

732NM said:

It's far more than pretty clear you've been contradicting yourself, and are now trying to deflect rather than take it on the chin.

Despite there being no evidence for that and you yourself quoted the precise evidence that contradicts your view.

The only hole digging is coming from the tabloid lynch mob who appears distressed that others are sensibly saying to wait for further context before hanging someone, even if one suspects they're guilty. It's what separates a civilised society from an idiocracy. It's just time. All people have to do wait. But to some waiting is too difficult and they can't compute such nuances. What they want to do, like any baying and simple mob is to not wait but simply leap to conclusions and use partial evidence to try and support a flawed view.

It’s pretty clear to me what you were saying… .

Yup. Along with quite a large constant chunk of "sane/simple/idiot" type comments. Quite a high horse to tumble from.

Edited by PhilAsia on Sunday 5th May 14:34

[DonkeyApple]

PhilAsia said:

Yup. Along with quite a large constant chunk of "sane/simple/idiot" type comments. Quite a high horse to tumble from.

Edited by PhilAsia on Sunday 5th May 14:34

In front of a lynch mob hooked on headlines? Hardly.

I'll just wait for some more evidence if that's Ok with the Jeremy Kyle Show?

[Victor.Lee]

So I just read on motorsport that the Red Bull managing director Oliver Mintzlaff has now publicly stated he thinks Horner is the man to lead the team and bring more success. This was the same guy that first saw the messages and wanted to immediately fire Horner.... what a 180 by Oliver. So he sees something bad happen at the highest level and eventually is worn down by the Thai majority owner and Horner's staying power after all that has come out. Even after Newey leaving. Looks like this PA will not get any actual reasonable justice she thinks she deserves because now it looks like 100% of Red Bull's top brass is behind Horner. I don't think Oliver would back Horner like this if he thinks a employment tribunal would side with the PA.

[Graveworm]

DonkeyApple said:

732NM said:

It's far more than pretty clear you've been contradicting yourself, and are now trying to deflect rather than take it on the chin.

others are sensibly saying to wait for further context before hanging someone, even if one suspects they're guilty. .

People keep asking and I don't think you have answered what viable context would make the messages OK? If there isn't one then waiting for the context is moot.

Waiting until you are certain you know everything, before deciding anything is a path to absolute clarity; but it's an unproductive way to exist.

[HocusPocus]

PhilAsia said:

HighwayStar said:

DonkeyApple said:

732NM said:

It's far more than pretty clear you've been contradicting yourself, and are now trying to deflect rather than take it on the chin.

Despite there being no evidence for that and you yourself quoted the precise evidence that contradicts your view.

The only hole digging is coming from the tabloid lynch mob who appears distressed that others are sensibly saying to wait for further context before hanging someone, even if one suspects they're guilty. It's what separates a civilised society from an idiocracy. It's just time. All people have to do wait. But to some waiting is too difficult and they can't compute such nuances. What they want to do, like any baying and simple mob is to not wait but simply leap to conclusions and use partial evidence to try and support a flawed view.

It’s pretty clear to me what you were saying… .

Yup. Along with quite a large constant chunk of "sane/simple/idiot" type comments. Quite a high horse to tumble from.

Edited by PhilAsia on Sunday 5th May 14:34

Forum is meant to be light hearted banter, not a public examination proving what any individual actually said in the past. My elderly dad has recast history in his own glorious mind. So what is the harm of allowing Donkey Apple to soften his stance without trial by pointy keyboard? PH needs universal voices of reason who vent against Kyle style extremism.

[HocusPocus]

Victor.Lee said:

So I just read on motorsport that the Red Bull managing director Oliver Mintzlaff has now publicly stated he thinks Horner is the man to lead the team and bring more success. This was the same guy that first saw the messages and wanted to immediately fire Horner.... what a 180 by Oliver. So he sees something bad happen at the highest level and eventually is worn down by the Thai majority owner and Horner's staying power after all that has come out. Even after Newey leaving. Looks like this PA will not get any actual reasonable justice she thinks she deserves because now it looks like 100% of Red Bull's top brass is behind Horner. I don't think Oliver would back Horner like this if he thinks a employment tribunal would side with the PA.

There could be many pressing business reasons, such as sponsors, stabilising the team, commercial contracts etc for keeping Horner in place today. Who knows... It does not mean the PA issue has been disposed of; that will be a future problem for another day.

[732NM]

HocusPocus said:

Forum is meant to be light hearted banter, not a public examination proving what any individual actually said in the past. My elderly dad has recast history in his own glorious mind. So what is the harm of allowing Donkey Apple to soften his stance without trial by pointy keyboard? PH needs universal voices of reason who vent against Kyle style extremism.

I'm finding DA trying to extract his multiple positions from his own posts highly amusing. There is certainly no seriousness in pointing out the hypocrisy of his posts. No one takes his novels seriously, do they?

[PhilAsia]

DonkeyApple said:

PhilAsia said:

Yup. Along with quite a large constant chunk of "sane/simple/idiot" type comments. Quite a high horse to tumble from.

Edited by PhilAsia on Sunday 5th May 14:34

In front of a lynch mob hooked on headlines? Hardly.

I'll just wait for some more evidence if that's Ok with the Jeremy Kyle Show?

The thing is, I agree to a certain extent with your view. However, the truth will never IMHO (for what it is worth) be released to the public - unless forced. Enforceability will be 99.9999999999% off the parameters, so therefore the truth will always be on vacation. The public however have seen how Horner works and, unless you work in politics, is 99.9999999999% closer to the truth than the spin that follows. No?

Edited by PhilAsia on Sunday 5th May 17:05

[ajprice]

Lots of reports around that Jonathan Wheatley could be leaving as well as Newey.