Christian Horner

[Byker28i]

TheDeuce said:

thegreenhell said:

It's equally naïve to think he adds nothing anymore and won't be missed at all. Even if he only brings 1% to the overall, if you take that 1% away from RBR and give it to somebody else, that could be the difference between winning and not. Especially at the start of a major rules change when teams will need a big picture thinker to get the basic concept right, which is where Newey has historically done very well.

It's not about measurable effort or work hours, of course the collective tech and design guys at the team dwarf Newey's personal effort.

His role is about coordinating everyone else's skilled efforts into a single concept that he understands. He also has to make the head of each team understand why a certain direction is right and why their dogged loyalty to that solution is valuable and makes sense.

His role will be small in terms of man hours, but vital in terms of impact. And of course others will learn from his approach and perhaps one of them could rise up to replace him - but that's far from guaranteed.

There's no way his departure won't disturb the processes and methodology in place. Whoever replaces him or steps up will have their own ideas which, whilst possibly great, in the short term will dusrupt what has worked seamlessly for over a decade.

Red Bull have had the best aero for years now, but we're let down by underpowered engines, which is now resolved. We've seen a second a lap advantage when Max lets loose, the whole package is brilliant and dominent.

It's not going to suddenly fall away, but maybe not improve as quickly, or get it right at the next rule change?

Certainly they'll be people eager to fill the places available

[DonkeyApple]

Byker28i said:

I see the usual suspects decided to go with personal attacks again. Shame it has to go to that rather than discussing as we have previously, but then i rd easier than trying to defend your posirion.

Obsessive? Look at all your posts on defending horny..

Again, there's no need for personal attacks and if ask you again to desist

My point all along has been they tried to sweep it under the carpet and it hasn't worked.

Oh and we'll done to the person who predicted Horny would stroll down the pit lane with Newry

Edited by Byker28i on Saturday 4th May 09:16

Chap, you're the one being called out for the personal attacks. You need to calm down, take a step back and return after having a bit of a think.

It's important that you understand that not agreeing with your extreme view is not to be defending CH. That is a correlation that you have fabricated and one that is actually quite offensive.

Throughout the thread anyone who hasn't 100% agreed with your extreme perspective has received remarks from you, and calling such as 'horny apologists', usually a couple of posts removed opposed to actually facing that person directly. And now you have the audacity to complain about personal attacks? Come on lad, get a grip. All people are doing is talking about the situation without taking an extreme view or deliberately misinterpreting reality or massively curve fitting any snippets to fit an agenda.

Just take a break. You're not the actual victim in the saga and I think it's pretty poor form to be trying to inveigle oneself into the situation of others as a victim. It's poor form to be name calling. It's insulting to be fabricating correlations.

Just to make it 100% clear: not agreeing with your extreme viewpoint and preferring to wait for evidence and process is not defending CH it is simply being an adult.

[PhilAsia]

I ignored the guff that was headline news initially. An affair is none of my business after all. However, I took umbrage to those that seemingly defended Horner's actions when the leaked messages to the media were made known. If are to be believed, and I think they are, there is every reason to take the view that Horner is a sex pest that does not understand "NO", and bullying wimp with no moral compass - that is not fine, and indefensible IMO.

[jasonrobertson86]

DonkeyApple said:

Byker28i said:

I see the usual suspects decided to go with personal attacks again. Shame it has to go to that rather than discussing as we have previously, but then i rd easier than trying to defend your posirion.

Obsessive? Look at all your posts on defending horny..

Again, there's no need for personal attacks and if ask you again to desist

My point all along has been they tried to sweep it under the carpet and it hasn't worked.

Oh and we'll done to the person who predicted Horny would stroll down the pit lane with Newry

Edited by Byker28i on Saturday 4th May 09:16

Chap, you're the one being called out for the personal attacks. You need to calm down, take a step back and return after having a bit of a think.

It's important that you understand that not agreeing with your extreme view is not to be defending CH. That is a correlation that you have fabricated and one that is actually quite offensive.

Throughout the thread anyone who hasn't 100% agreed with your extreme perspective has received remarks from you, and calling such as 'horny apologists', usually a couple of posts removed opposed to actually facing that person directly. And now you have the audacity to complain about personal attacks? Come on lad, get a grip. All people are doing is talking about the situation without taking an extreme view or deliberately misinterpreting reality or massively curve fitting any snippets to fit an agenda.

Just take a break. You're not the actual victim in the saga and I think it's pretty poor form to be trying to inveigle oneself into the situation of others as a victim. It's poor form to be name calling. It's insulting to be fabricating correlations.

Just to make it 100% clear: not agreeing with your extreme viewpoint and preferring to wait for evidence and process is not defending CH it is simply being an adult.

How can you two be arsed to type so much about nothing? just to squabble.

[DonkeyApple]

jasonrobertson86 said:

How can you two be arsed to type so much about nothing? just to squabble.

In my case it is simply because someone sought to accuse me of something that I hadn't done. I probably should have ignored it as it was so asinine but I really don't like that sort of behaviour and have no respect for those who do so.

[jasonrobertson86]

DonkeyApple said:

In my case it is simply because someone sought to accuse me of something that I hadn't done. I probably should have ignored it as it was so asinine but I really don't like that sort of behaviour and have no respect for those who do so.

true. not worth bothering. its just the tinternet....

[DonkeyApple]

PhilAsia said:

I ignored the guff that was headline news initially. An affair is none of my business after all. However, I took umbrage to those that seemingly defended Horner's actions when the leaked messages to the media were made known. If are to be believed, and I think they are, there is every reason to take the view that Horner is a sex pest that does not understand "NO", and bullying wimp with no moral compass - that is not fine, and indefensible IMO.

Agreed if the leaked screenshots are probably unbiased and show the whole picture but the problem is that not only are they neither but there were selected to specifically generate the public opinion that you refer to. As such the only sane action is that they must be discounted and held to the side until further evidence to support and corroborate comes to light. Just on point of principal one cannot allow oneself to be party to what is a classic tabloid/max Clifford style trick. And the same goes for the 'close friend' content.

We just have to wait while also not being a casserole lacky to either side of what is a remarkably pathetic fiasco that does reveal some of the F1 reality the PR agents and marketers work so hard to cover over with the faux veneer of sophistication painted by doing things like renting celebs by the hour.

[732NM]

DonkeyApple said:

Agreed if the leaked screenshots are probably unbiased and show the whole picture but the problem is that not only are they neither but there were selected to specifically generate the public opinion that you refer to. As such the only sane action is that they must be discounted and held to the side until further evidence to support and corroborate comes to light. Just on point of principal one cannot allow oneself to be party to what is a classic tabloid/max Clifford style trick. And the same goes for the 'close friend' content.

We just have to wait while also not being a casserole lacky to either side of what is a remarkably pathetic fiasco that does reveal some of the F1 reality the PR agents and marketers work so hard to cover over with the faux veneer of sophistication painted by doing things like renting celebs by the hour.

Your long winded posts about Horner having no game and being a third rate clown by not hiring in a local sex worker are based on the WhatsApp messages content. You are equally guilty of what you accuse others of.

You say those messages should be discounted, yet your posts use their content as reference.

Clearly those messages have relevance in this case, although likely selectively chosen for impact, they have not been denied by Horner as real. That is not his normal MO when confronted with issues he does not like, he often spins like a demented Mandleson.

[Sandpit Steve]

DonkeyApple said:

Agreed if the leaked screenshots are probably unbiased and show the whole picture but the problem is that not only are they neither but there were selected to specifically generate the public opinion that you refer to. As such the only sane action is that they must be discounted and held to the side until further evidence to support and corroborate comes to light. Just on point of principal one cannot allow oneself to be party to what is a classic tabloid/max Clifford style trick. And the same goes for the 'close friend' content.

We just have to wait while also not being a casserole lacky to either side of what is a remarkably pathetic fiasco that does reveal some of the F1 reality the PR agents and marketers work so hard to cover over with the faux veneer of sophistication painted by doing things like renting celebs by the hour.

If those screenshots are genuine, and not photoshopped, how much “context” to you think Horny can add to avoid him looking like a totally stty boss who was banging his PA and got really upset when she called it off.

[Graveworm]

Sandpit Steve said:

DonkeyApple said:

Agreed if the leaked screenshots are probably unbiased and show the whole picture but the problem is that not only are they neither but there were selected to specifically generate the public opinion that you refer to. As such the only sane action is that they must be discounted and held to the side until further evidence to support and corroborate comes to light. Just on point of principal one cannot allow oneself to be party to what is a classic tabloid/max Clifford style trick. And the same goes for the 'close friend' content.

We just have to wait while also not being a casserole lacky to either side of what is a remarkably pathetic fiasco that does reveal some of the F1 reality the PR agents and marketers work so hard to cover over with the faux veneer of sophistication painted by doing things like renting celebs by the hour.

If those screenshots are genuine, and not photoshopped, how much “context” to you think Horny can add to avoid him looking like a totally stty boss who was banging his PA and got really upset when she called it off.

This is my problem as well. No one has been able to show how any context could make the messages OK between a boss and their subordinate. That doesn't mean Red Bull have to sack Horner but, given the guidelines are if the employee says it was unwanted it was unwanted, they are struggling to exonerate him.
Literally all I can think of a claim that the messages were sent by someone else using the phone, or earlier exchanges where it was agreed, that they were going to act on messages as if it was inappropriate, and I don't see that as very likely.

Edited by Graveworm on Saturday 4th May 11:26

[paulguitar]

At the very least those messages make Horner appear like an embarrassing teen. It's not a good look for someone in his position.

[suffolk009]

jasonrobertson86 said:

DonkeyApple said:

In my case it is simply because someone sought to accuse me of something that I hadn't done. I probably should have ignored it as it was so asinine but I really don't like that sort of behaviour and have no respect for those who do so.

true. not worth bothering. its just the tinternet....

Sorry for the pedantry, but surely when you write tinternet (above), it's short for t'internet, which is short for the internet. So you'd not really write "just the the internet", just "just tinternet".

[TheDeuce]

Christian Horner interviewed by Sky, says that Newey found regulation changes particularly stressful, suggesting that's why he's chosen now to depart

Adrian Newey interviewed by Sky, says that he's found the job stressful for a while and 'recent events' made his mind up. Oh.. and that regulation changes are the periods he enjoys most.

Horner is so unbelievably full of st

[PlywoodPascal]

He’s just nasty, snake like, and dishonourable, making apparently level but in reality snide remarks like that to diminish the contribution of someone who has delivered a lot for this team. Even more so if it’s not true (re stress). Not someone it’s possible to respect much. I don’t think there is anyone who better embodies ‘winning is more important than how you win’.

In fact, come to think of it, perhaps the whole Mercedes/red bull axis/rivalry/fan battles can be framed in terms of how you win/that you win terms.

[TheDeuce]

PlywoodPascal said:

He’s just nasty, snake like, and dishonourable, making apparently level but in reality snide remarks like that to diminish the contribution of someone who has delivered a lot for this team. Even more so if it’s not true (re stress). Not someone it’s possible to respect much. I don’t think there is anyone who better embodies ‘winning is more important than how you win’.

In fact, come to think of it, perhaps the whole Mercedes/red bull axis/rivalry/fan battles can be framed in terms of how you win/that you win terms.

I think the two teams attract very different fans...

As for Horner, he's really done some damage to the team. Zak said yesterday he's seen an increase in CV's coming from RBR as a result of Newey's announcement. Horner can spin it however he wishes, claim that everything is tickity-boo, but of course it's not.

[PhilAsia]

TheDeuce said:

PlywoodPascal said:

He’s just nasty, snake like, and dishonourable, making apparently level but in reality snide remarks like that to diminish the contribution of someone who has delivered a lot for this team. Even more so if it’s not true (re stress). Not someone it’s possible to respect much. I don’t think there is anyone who better embodies ‘winning is more important than how you win’.

In fact, come to think of it, perhaps the whole Mercedes/red bull axis/rivalry/fan battles can be framed in terms of how you win/that you win terms.

I think the two teams attract very different fans...

Yup... +1

TheDeuce said:

As for Horner, he's really done some damage to the team. Horner can spin it however he wishes, claim that everything is tickity-boo, but of course it's not.

Ditto

[732NM]

TheDeuce said:

Christian Horner interviewed by Sky, says that Newey found regulation changes particularly stressful, suggesting that's why he's chosen now to depart

Adrian Newey interviewed by Sky, says that he's found the job stressful for a while and 'recent events' made his mind up. Oh.. and that regulation changes are the periods he enjoys most.

Horner is so unbelievably full of st

I noticed that too. It was very amusing.

It is extremely well known designers love regulation changes, it's far more interesting than finding another 1/00th in a stable well developed era.

I thought Horner had lost his mind saying that, it's just stupid.

[PhilAsia]

732NM said:

TheDeuce said:

Christian Horner interviewed by Sky, says that Newey found regulation changes particularly stressful, suggesting that's why he's chosen now to depart

Adrian Newey interviewed by Sky, says that he's found the job stressful for a while and 'recent events' made his mind up. Oh.. and that regulation changes are the periods he enjoys most.

Horner is so unbelievably full of st

I noticed that too. It was very amusing.

It is extremely well known designers love regulation changes, it's far more interesting than finding another 1/00th in a stable well developed era.

I thought Horner had lost his mind saying that, it's just stupid.

Yep. Horner is bursting with st...

[Boom78]

I’m no Horner fan but regardless of his off track actions and slimyness he’s an out and out team principal, probably the best. He built a superb team that has dominated and if not dominating is always competitive. An imbecile he is not. I can’t think of anyone bar maybe toto who could have achieved what he has. His private life is just that, he alone needs to sort that out, it’s just been weaponised as part of the red bull ownership power struggle and we’re lapping it up. If he had done the same feats for a pseudo British team like Williams and Mc we’d be calling for knighthoods and to hell with the allegations.

Edited by Boom78 on Saturday 4th May 15:34

[732NM]

It's not his private life when it impacts his staff.