Christian Horner
Discussion
DonkeyApple said:
Forester1965 said:
Guess it depends on what happens with the Yippy Ki Yay PA. A public examination of the private examination may lead enough important people to believe the value of their team and sport piggy banks is being degraded by Handy Pandy and better he leave the tent than keep coming all over the inside.
Yup. I suspect that given her socio economic background, level of education and quality of experience she is on the back foot when it comes to arguing she was stupid, unwise, naive etc if it were all a consensual that subsequently went south. Even less so if the reason for it going south was the finding of another senior, older figure. Equally, if it were non consensual she has to argue why it wasn't addressed earlier and falling back on the fear argument becomes harder the more educated, emancipated and experienced the individual is. Even those who desired replacing Horner are now facing a new scenario where they wouldn't be risking parachuting a new leader into a team that has the best designer, best driver, best car etc. Arguably there is now a very different scenario and that's going to require a different tactic. If there is no killer evidence against Horner or if Horner doesn't have some killer opportunity presented elsewhere then maybe the best tactic is to let matters go dormant on the ousting front while CH shores up the team. If he fails then they can bin him on performance grounds, if he succeeds then they're just where they were 6 months ago.
HocusPocus said:
DonkeyApple said:
Forester1965 said:
Guess it depends on what happens with the Yippy Ki Yay PA. A public examination of the private examination may lead enough important people to believe the value of their team and sport piggy banks is being degraded by Handy Pandy and better he leave the tent than keep coming all over the inside.
Yup. I suspect that given her socio economic background, level of education and quality of experience she is on the back foot when it comes to arguing she was stupid, unwise, naive etc if it were all a consensual that subsequently went south. Even less so if the reason for it going south was the finding of another senior, older figure. Equally, if it were non consensual she has to argue why it wasn't addressed earlier and falling back on the fear argument becomes harder the more educated, emancipated and experienced the individual is. Even those who desired replacing Horner are now facing a new scenario where they wouldn't be risking parachuting a new leader into a team that has the best designer, best driver, best car etc. Arguably there is now a very different scenario and that's going to require a different tactic. If there is no killer evidence against Horner or if Horner doesn't have some killer opportunity presented elsewhere then maybe the best tactic is to let matters go dormant on the ousting front while CH shores up the team. If he fails then they can bin him on performance grounds, if he succeeds then they're just where they were 6 months ago.
NRS said:
Just going to throw this out there...
This is all a big scheme for the main RB players to get the company on the cheap. Since they're so far ahead of everyone else they'd have to pay a high price to take over RB. So they make a lot of rumours up, Horner pretends to diddle with the PA, Marko is a "rival" trying to kick him out alongside Max and Jos. Newey leaves the team because of the rumours.
The price to buy the team drops off a cliff. Horner "takes one for the team" and buys the F1 it off the desperate main RB company for a bargain, alongside some other investors. Only for it to turn out these other investors are Jos, Max, Marko, Newey and a few others. Newey re-signs for RB, Max signs a new long term contract and so on. It would explain the PA jumping to Jos rumours (both are part of the scheme), Marko not getting fired when he "tried" to get rid of Horner and so on. And would cover the F1 journos "if only you knew the real story behind the rumours" stories too.
It's the only possible explanation to all this!
Go have a lie down. This is all a big scheme for the main RB players to get the company on the cheap. Since they're so far ahead of everyone else they'd have to pay a high price to take over RB. So they make a lot of rumours up, Horner pretends to diddle with the PA, Marko is a "rival" trying to kick him out alongside Max and Jos. Newey leaves the team because of the rumours.
The price to buy the team drops off a cliff. Horner "takes one for the team" and buys the F1 it off the desperate main RB company for a bargain, alongside some other investors. Only for it to turn out these other investors are Jos, Max, Marko, Newey and a few others. Newey re-signs for RB, Max signs a new long term contract and so on. It would explain the PA jumping to Jos rumours (both are part of the scheme), Marko not getting fired when he "tried" to get rid of Horner and so on. And would cover the F1 journos "if only you knew the real story behind the rumours" stories too.
It's the only possible explanation to all this!
I'd go with slightly starstruck/flattered at first, did something silly, regretted it but didn't walk or say f$ck off because wanted to keep job and potential future career within F1. That would make her foolish for joining in at the start but not exonerate him when she started saying 'stop'.
Without re-running the entire early thread, if the messages are a true reflection of events, all else being equal, he and RB will be reamed at tribunal. It's textbook stuff.
Without re-running the entire early thread, if the messages are a true reflection of events, all else being equal, he and RB will be reamed at tribunal. It's textbook stuff.
paulguitar said:
HocusPocus said:
DonkeyApple said:
Forester1965 said:
Guess it depends on what happens with the Yippy Ki Yay PA. A public examination of the private examination may lead enough important people to believe the value of their team and sport piggy banks is being degraded by Handy Pandy and better he leave the tent than keep coming all over the inside.
Yup. I suspect that given her socio economic background, level of education and quality of experience she is on the back foot when it comes to arguing she was stupid, unwise, naive etc if it were all a consensual that subsequently went south. Even less so if the reason for it going south was the finding of another senior, older figure. Equally, if it were non consensual she has to argue why it wasn't addressed earlier and falling back on the fear argument becomes harder the more educated, emancipated and experienced the individual is. Even those who desired replacing Horner are now facing a new scenario where they wouldn't be risking parachuting a new leader into a team that has the best designer, best driver, best car etc. Arguably there is now a very different scenario and that's going to require a different tactic. If there is no killer evidence against Horner or if Horner doesn't have some killer opportunity presented elsewhere then maybe the best tactic is to let matters go dormant on the ousting front while CH shores up the team. If he fails then they can bin him on performance grounds, if he succeeds then they're just where they were 6 months ago.
SpudLink said:
DonkeyApple said:
Yup. I suspect that given her socio economic background, level of education and quality of experience she is on the back foot when it comes to arguing she was stupid, unwise, naive etc if it were all a consensual that subsequently went south. Even less so if the reason for it going south was the finding of another senior, older figure. Equally, if it were non consensual she has to argue why it wasn't addressed earlier and falling back on the fear argument becomes harder the more educated, emancipated and experienced the individual is.
Even those who desired replacing Horner are now facing a new scenario where they wouldn't be risking parachuting a new leader into a team that has the best designer, best driver, best car etc. Arguably there is now a very different scenario and that's going to require a different tactic. If there is no killer evidence against Horner or if Horner doesn't have some killer opportunity presented elsewhere then maybe the best tactic is to let matters go dormant on the ousting front while CH shores up the team. If he fails then they can bin him on performance grounds, if he succeeds then they're just where they were 6 months ago.
Possible scenario: It began as consensual, then consent was withdrawn, but one party tried to use their position of power within the company to pressure the other party into continuing.Even those who desired replacing Horner are now facing a new scenario where they wouldn't be risking parachuting a new leader into a team that has the best designer, best driver, best car etc. Arguably there is now a very different scenario and that's going to require a different tactic. If there is no killer evidence against Horner or if Horner doesn't have some killer opportunity presented elsewhere then maybe the best tactic is to let matters go dormant on the ousting front while CH shores up the team. If he fails then they can bin him on performance grounds, if he succeeds then they're just where they were 6 months ago.
(I know it's all been said, but sometimes it feels like people are still implying that she went into it with her eyes open, therefore she had no right to say 'enough'.)
Walking down the paddock with his current wife (someone who knows very well that he can’t keep his dick in his pants, because she used to be the mistress) for show, isn’t going to cut it with potential investors.
rdjohn said:
I was on consensual, gone wrong, orchestrated by RB HQ power struggle.
Newey leaving says far more to me than any tribunal could ever decide.
The attempted cover up, misdirection now lost them the top designer, yet still the PH horny apologists say he has to stay because Newey is going.Newey leaving says far more to me than any tribunal could ever decide.
Hilarious. Another race weekend of talking about hornys behaviour and the fallout.
It's not gone away
Byker28i said:
The attempted cover up, misdirection now lost them the top designer, yet still the PH horny apologists say he has to stay because Newey is going.
Hilarious. Another race weekend of talking about hornys behaviour and the fallout.
It's not gone away
I think you've gone quite obsessional on this subject. Positing that the landscape has changed and that others may wish to not bin CH just yet is not by any means some kind of 'horny apologist'. All it means, at best is that an element of the discussion fails to align with your particularly extreme belief. Hilarious. Another race weekend of talking about hornys behaviour and the fallout.
It's not gone away
It's important to take a step back towards balance and reason, if you're able to, and understand that not devoutly believing an extremist view does not tacitly mean that person devoutly believes some imagined opposing view.
DonkeyApple said:
Byker28i said:
The attempted cover up, misdirection now lost them the top designer, yet still the PH horny apologists say he has to stay because Newey is going.
Hilarious. Another race weekend of talking about hornys behaviour and the fallout.
It's not gone away
I think you've gone quite obsessional on this subject. Positing that the landscape has changed and that others may wish to not bin CH just yet is not by any means some kind of 'horny apologist'. All it means, at best is that an element of the discussion fails to align with your particularly extreme belief. Hilarious. Another race weekend of talking about hornys behaviour and the fallout.
It's not gone away
It's important to take a step back towards balance and reason, if you're able to, and understand that not devoutly believing an extremist view does not tacitly mean that person devoutly believes some imagined opposing view.
(Nothing bad meant by that, just it's very clear you put more than the usual focus on certain topics that most people). NRS said:
It's Byker, this is a pretty chill subject for him when you compare it to the Trump one, (Nothing bad meant by that, just it's very clear you put more than the usual focus on certain topics that most people).
Trump self-styled pussy grabber and civil judgment rapist who allegedly pays off porn stars/playboy models post shag. Horner's alleged indiscretions almost saintly by comparison. (Nothing bad meant by that, just it's very clear you put more than the usual focus on certain topics that most people). Byker28i said:
The attempted cover up, misdirection now lost them the top designer, yet still the PH horny apologists say he has to stay because Newey is going.
Hilarious. Another race weekend of talking about hornys behaviour and the fallout.
It's not gone away
Don’t think anyone is saying he has to stay….. it could be argued that keeping him is now the most sensible option for continuities sake what with Newey gone and grandad retiring some time soon (?). Hilarious. Another race weekend of talking about hornys behaviour and the fallout.
It's not gone away
But of course we don’t know the truth about any of the various layers to this soap opera. There will probably be more stories to flow out from RB over the next few weeks. Maybe Newey leaving will push RB into pushing Horner out….doesnt feel likely.
Gazzab said:
Byker28i said:
The attempted cover up, misdirection now lost them the top designer, yet still the PH horny apologists say he has to stay because Newey is going.
Hilarious. Another race weekend of talking about hornys behaviour and the fallout.
It's not gone away
Don’t think anyone is saying he has to stay….. it could be argued that keeping him is now the most sensible option for continuities sake what with Newey gone and grandad retiring some time soon (?). Hilarious. Another race weekend of talking about hornys behaviour and the fallout.
It's not gone away
But of course we don’t know the truth about any of the various layers to this soap opera. There will probably be more stories to flow out from RB over the next few weeks. Maybe Newey leaving will push RB into pushing Horner out….doesnt feel likely.
Red Bull are so dominant because of the whole team not just because of Newey the computer systems the aero tunnel all the correlation all the engineers the manufacturing process. thinking that Horner hasn’t foreseen that eventually Newey will be gone especially at his age and not putting anything in the process to cover it is totally naieve. Getting rid of Horner would be moronic from a business perspective he’s got the powertrains going which will probably be successful.
It's equally naïve to think he adds nothing anymore and won't be missed at all. Even if he only brings 1% to the overall, if you take that 1% away from RBR and give it to somebody else, that could be the difference between winning and not. Especially at the start of a major rules change when teams will need a big picture thinker to get the basic concept right, which is where Newey has historically done very well.
thegreenhell said:
It's equally naïve to think he adds nothing anymore and won't be missed at all. Even if he only brings 1% to the overall, if you take that 1% away from RBR and give it to somebody else, that could be the difference between winning and not. Especially at the start of a major rules change when teams will need a big picture thinker to get the basic concept right, which is where Newey has historically done very well.
It's not about measurable effort or work hours, of course the collective tech and design guys at the team dwarf Newey's personal effort.His role is about coordinating everyone else's skilled efforts into a single concept that he understands. He also has to make the head of each team understand why a certain direction is right and why their dogged loyalty to that solution is valuable and makes sense.
His role will be small in terms of man hours, but vital in terms of impact. And of course others will learn from his approach and perhaps one of them could rise up to replace him - but that's far from guaranteed.
There's no way his departure won't disturb the processes and methodology in place. Whoever replaces him or steps up will have their own ideas which, whilst possibly great, in the short term will dusrupt what has worked seamlessly for over a decade.
Forester1965 said:
I read something the other day, can't remember where. It said Newey was good for directing the team where to spend time/money looking for advantage (and by implication, where not to). That makes sense to me. In an era of restricted resources, especially so.
I think it's likely as simple as being a single person with a single vision of what could work best AND also being a person capable of making others accept that vision and work towards it.Very few people can do that. Its relatively easy to become an expert at something, but bloody difficult to make others have faith in your judgement ahead of them wanting to try their own solutions first.
He's a charismatic guy, he obviously gets those beneath him on the same page as he is on and gets them fired up to deliver it.
I see the usual suspects decided to go with personal attacks again. Shame it has to go to that rather than discussing as we have previously, but then i rd easier than trying to defend your posirion.
Obsessive? Look at all your posts on defending horny..
Again, there's no need for personal attacks and if ask you again to desist
My point all along has been they tried to sweep it under the carpet and it hasn't worked.
Oh and we'll done to the person who predicted Horny would stroll down the pit lane with Newry
Obsessive? Look at all your posts on defending horny..
Again, there's no need for personal attacks and if ask you again to desist
My point all along has been they tried to sweep it under the carpet and it hasn't worked.
Oh and we'll done to the person who predicted Horny would stroll down the pit lane with Newry
Edited by Byker28i on Saturday 4th May 09:16
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