Max Verstappen
Discussion
simon_harris said:
There have always been whooping great huge inconsistencies in stewarding decisions, I am sure anyone who is not of the DTS fanbase era will recall what FIA once stood for.
What now seems to be apparent is that decisions tend to vary by driver and this was most apparent in '21 not just at Abu Dhabi but throughout the latter part of the year culminating in that travesty.
You could also argue the FIA was very lenient on Mercedes / Bottas for taking out Max. Skillfully done it must be said.What now seems to be apparent is that decisions tend to vary by driver and this was most apparent in '21 not just at Abu Dhabi but throughout the latter part of the year culminating in that travesty.
Mercedes were in contention for the '21 championship
https://www.planetf1.com/news/valtteri-bottas-carn...
gmaz said:
As I have said before...
Don't forget Minimum age to be granted an FIA Super Licencegmaz said:
Has any other driver had a number of rules introduced specifically to curb their behaviour?
1. Changing line under braking
2. Being alongside the car in front, during safety car
3. Overtaking in the pitlane
Seems like the rule book needs to have a "Max's rules" section.
I wonder what the next "Max" rule to be introduced will be?1. Changing line under braking
2. Being alongside the car in front, during safety car
3. Overtaking in the pitlane
Seems like the rule book needs to have a "Max's rules" section.
Bo_apex said:
simon_harris said:
There have always been whooping great huge inconsistencies in stewarding decisions, I am sure anyone who is not of the DTS fanbase era will recall what FIA once stood for.
What now seems to be apparent is that decisions tend to vary by driver and this was most apparent in '21 not just at Abu Dhabi but throughout the latter part of the year culminating in that travesty.
You could also argue the FIA was very lenient on Mercedes / Bottas for taking out Max. Skillfully done it must be said.What now seems to be apparent is that decisions tend to vary by driver and this was most apparent in '21 not just at Abu Dhabi but throughout the latter part of the year culminating in that travesty.
Mercedes were in contention for the '21 championship
https://www.planetf1.com/news/valtteri-bottas-carn...
You've hit something of a new low here recently, which is quite an achievement given where you were starting from.
paulguitar said:
Bo_apex said:
simon_harris said:
There have always been whooping great huge inconsistencies in stewarding decisions, I am sure anyone who is not of the DTS fanbase era will recall what FIA once stood for.
What now seems to be apparent is that decisions tend to vary by driver and this was most apparent in '21 not just at Abu Dhabi but throughout the latter part of the year culminating in that travesty.
You could also argue the FIA was very lenient on Mercedes / Bottas for taking out Max. Skillfully done it must be said.What now seems to be apparent is that decisions tend to vary by driver and this was most apparent in '21 not just at Abu Dhabi but throughout the latter part of the year culminating in that travesty.
Mercedes were in contention for the '21 championship
https://www.planetf1.com/news/valtteri-bottas-carn...
You've hit something of a new low here recently, which is quite an achievement given where you were starting from.
comments from the British GP:
Norris: Max doesn't need to apologise
Lando Norris further reflects on his collision with Max Verstappen:
"Yep, we did (speak).
"Honestly, I don’t think he needed to apologise. Some of the things I said in the pen after the race were more just because I was frustrated at the time, a lot of adrenaline, a lot of emotions and I probably said some things I didn’t necessarily believe in, especially later on in the week.
"It was tough. It was a pretty pathetic incident in terms of what ended both our races. It wasn’t like a hit, it wasn’t like an obvious bit of contact. It was probably one of the smallest bits of contact you could have, but with a pretty terrible consequence for both of us, especially for myself.
"He doesn’t need to. I don’t expect an apology from him. I don’t think he should apologise. I thought it was, as reviewed, good racing, at times maybe very close to the edge, but like I said we’ve spoken about it and we’re both happy to go racing again."
Russell: Drivers don't have to race Max differently
Mercedes' George Russell, the eventual race winner in Austria, on whether drivers have to race differently when wheel-to-wheel with Max Verstappen:
"I don’t think so, to be honest.
"You know Max is one of the best, is a hard racer and will push the rules to the limit as all of the top drivers do.
"We all know what the rules are, what the rules are around moving under braking. He probably pushed that slightly behind the limit. As for the incident, as Lando said, it was a very small thing with big consequences and part of racing.
"So short answer is 'no'."
Norris: Max doesn't need to apologise
Lando Norris further reflects on his collision with Max Verstappen:
"Yep, we did (speak).
"Honestly, I don’t think he needed to apologise. Some of the things I said in the pen after the race were more just because I was frustrated at the time, a lot of adrenaline, a lot of emotions and I probably said some things I didn’t necessarily believe in, especially later on in the week.
"It was tough. It was a pretty pathetic incident in terms of what ended both our races. It wasn’t like a hit, it wasn’t like an obvious bit of contact. It was probably one of the smallest bits of contact you could have, but with a pretty terrible consequence for both of us, especially for myself.
"He doesn’t need to. I don’t expect an apology from him. I don’t think he should apologise. I thought it was, as reviewed, good racing, at times maybe very close to the edge, but like I said we’ve spoken about it and we’re both happy to go racing again."
Russell: Drivers don't have to race Max differently
Mercedes' George Russell, the eventual race winner in Austria, on whether drivers have to race differently when wheel-to-wheel with Max Verstappen:
"I don’t think so, to be honest.
"You know Max is one of the best, is a hard racer and will push the rules to the limit as all of the top drivers do.
"We all know what the rules are, what the rules are around moving under braking. He probably pushed that slightly behind the limit. As for the incident, as Lando said, it was a very small thing with big consequences and part of racing.
"So short answer is 'no'."
deadslow said:
comments from the British GP:
Norris: Max doesn't need to apologise
Lando Norris further reflects on his collision with Max Verstappen:
"Yep, we did (speak).
"Honestly, I don’t think he needed to apologise. Some of the things I said in the pen after the race were more just because I was frustrated at the time, a lot of adrenaline, a lot of emotions and I probably said some things I didn’t necessarily believe in, especially later on in the week.
"It was tough. It was a pretty pathetic incident in terms of what ended both our races. It wasn’t like a hit, it wasn’t like an obvious bit of contact. It was probably one of the smallest bits of contact you could have, but with a pretty terrible consequence for both of us, especially for myself.
"He doesn’t need to. I don’t expect an apology from him. I don’t think he should apologise. I thought it was, as reviewed, good racing, at times maybe very close to the edge, but like I said we’ve spoken about it and we’re both happy to go racing again."
Russell: Drivers don't have to race Max differently
Mercedes' George Russell, the eventual race winner in Austria, on whether drivers have to race differently when wheel-to-wheel with Max Verstappen:
"I don’t think so, to be honest.
"You know Max is one of the best, is a hard racer and will push the rules to the limit as all of the top drivers do.
"We all know what the rules are, what the rules are around moving under braking. He probably pushed that slightly behind the limit. As for the incident, as Lando said, it was a very small thing with big consequences and part of racing.
"So short answer is 'no'."
This will satisfy the snowflakesNorris: Max doesn't need to apologise
Lando Norris further reflects on his collision with Max Verstappen:
"Yep, we did (speak).
"Honestly, I don’t think he needed to apologise. Some of the things I said in the pen after the race were more just because I was frustrated at the time, a lot of adrenaline, a lot of emotions and I probably said some things I didn’t necessarily believe in, especially later on in the week.
"It was tough. It was a pretty pathetic incident in terms of what ended both our races. It wasn’t like a hit, it wasn’t like an obvious bit of contact. It was probably one of the smallest bits of contact you could have, but with a pretty terrible consequence for both of us, especially for myself.
"He doesn’t need to. I don’t expect an apology from him. I don’t think he should apologise. I thought it was, as reviewed, good racing, at times maybe very close to the edge, but like I said we’ve spoken about it and we’re both happy to go racing again."
Russell: Drivers don't have to race Max differently
Mercedes' George Russell, the eventual race winner in Austria, on whether drivers have to race differently when wheel-to-wheel with Max Verstappen:
"I don’t think so, to be honest.
"You know Max is one of the best, is a hard racer and will push the rules to the limit as all of the top drivers do.
"We all know what the rules are, what the rules are around moving under braking. He probably pushed that slightly behind the limit. As for the incident, as Lando said, it was a very small thing with big consequences and part of racing.
"So short answer is 'no'."
deadslow said:
comments from the British GP:
Norris: Max doesn't need to apologise
Lando Norris further reflects on his collision with Max Verstappen:
"Yep, we did (speak).
"Honestly, I don’t think he needed to apologise. Some of the things I said in the pen after the race were more just because I was frustrated at the time, a lot of adrenaline, a lot of emotions and I probably said some things I didn’t necessarily believe in, especially later on in the week.
"It was tough. It was a pretty pathetic incident in terms of what ended both our races. It wasn’t like a hit, it wasn’t like an obvious bit of contact. It was probably one of the smallest bits of contact you could have, but with a pretty terrible consequence for both of us, especially for myself.
"He doesn’t need to. I don’t expect an apology from him. I don’t think he should apologise. I thought it was, as reviewed, good racing, at times maybe very close to the edge, but like I said we’ve spoken about it and we’re both happy to go racing again."
Russell: Drivers don't have to race Max differently
Mercedes' George Russell, the eventual race winner in Austria, on whether drivers have to race differently when wheel-to-wheel with Max Verstappen:
"I don’t think so, to be honest.
"You know Max is one of the best, is a hard racer and will push the rules to the limit as all of the top drivers do.
"We all know what the rules are, what the rules are around moving under braking. He probably pushed that slightly behind the limit. As for the incident, as Lando said, it was a very small thing with big consequences and part of racing.
"So short answer is 'no'."
It's encouraging to hear this, let's hope that we get some great racing over the next events without the kind of contact we saw last week. Norris: Max doesn't need to apologise
Lando Norris further reflects on his collision with Max Verstappen:
"Yep, we did (speak).
"Honestly, I don’t think he needed to apologise. Some of the things I said in the pen after the race were more just because I was frustrated at the time, a lot of adrenaline, a lot of emotions and I probably said some things I didn’t necessarily believe in, especially later on in the week.
"It was tough. It was a pretty pathetic incident in terms of what ended both our races. It wasn’t like a hit, it wasn’t like an obvious bit of contact. It was probably one of the smallest bits of contact you could have, but with a pretty terrible consequence for both of us, especially for myself.
"He doesn’t need to. I don’t expect an apology from him. I don’t think he should apologise. I thought it was, as reviewed, good racing, at times maybe very close to the edge, but like I said we’ve spoken about it and we’re both happy to go racing again."
Russell: Drivers don't have to race Max differently
Mercedes' George Russell, the eventual race winner in Austria, on whether drivers have to race differently when wheel-to-wheel with Max Verstappen:
"I don’t think so, to be honest.
"You know Max is one of the best, is a hard racer and will push the rules to the limit as all of the top drivers do.
"We all know what the rules are, what the rules are around moving under braking. He probably pushed that slightly behind the limit. As for the incident, as Lando said, it was a very small thing with big consequences and part of racing.
"So short answer is 'no'."
Bas Jaski said:
MarkwG said:
you mean the one at the start where Verstappen touched the grass, having had the choice to back out of an overtake, but didn't...Oh wait! Can't do that because then that means giving in to Max...
FWIW I believe the penalty Max received was on point. I believe the FIA should've acted the first time he moved and given him a black and white flag for it immediately.
I also believe Norris could've used his brain more and do what Max did when Max was in Norris' position last year, and go an inch wider (still well within track limits) and use it as an opportunity to overtake.
People have gotten WAY to excited about this move. Really quite sad to be honest. Reading through the Monza 23 thread is quite amusing.
simon_harris said:
Max will not change his approach to racing,
good, cos he's the best out theresimon_harris said:
it does not matter what people say,
you're right. I doubt he'll let the frothers and bedwetters get to himsimon_harris said:
what punishments he gets.
always accepted with ill-grace as you would expect from any real racersimon_harris said:
Max does not believe or accept that he is ever wrong.
results tell us he's usually right, but you cannot read his mind (can you???)
Albon:
the reality of it was just pure racing, hard racing” between the two drivers.
“It’s aggressive racing but I think it’s blown out of proportion, in my opinion,” said the Williams driver.”
“I think it was questionable more the first move where Max moved under the braking the first time. I don’t really think he moved under braking on the one where they made contact. I think that was more just kind of heading more towards a straight line, just going more towards the left.”
Nico Hulkenberg:
“To be honest, for me Max wasn’t doing much. He was more or less driving in a straight line. We have to leave a car width which I think there was and there was still kerb on the left and not a wall and room, so no.
“I think the stewards got involved quite a lot last weekend, but it’s personal opinion, personal views, and like I say for me that was that was just racing.”
He felt the pair were unfortunate to sustain punctures when they made contact. “It was racing, for me,” said Hulkenberg. “There was next to no contact.
“There was the slightest of contact, I don’t think you could have less contact, it’s just obviously quite bad how they hit in that both rims kind of broke from that. But usually you get away with that kind of contact.
“So I felt it was all ‘biffed up’ quite a bit and dramatic. And for me, it was just racing."
Danny Ric:
“I think the moving under braking, I have an understanding of what I should do and shouldn’t do,” he said. “If you look at it, yeah it’s hard, but you’re also fighting for a win so you’re not going to just wave someone by. I think the contact, that can happen probably nine times out of ten with no consequence.
“They’d been going at it back and forth. Maybe the angle was a bit awkward. Obviously Lando ended the race but I think the outcome was bigger than probably what was actually happening on track.
“What I saw, at least, nothing seemed over the top. Was it pushing the edge? Probably. But was anything dangerous or reckless, at least from what I’ve seen. No.”
He believes other drivers would have fought Norris as hard for the lead as Verstappen did. “I don’t even want to spotlight Max. I think when you’re fighting for a win, are you going to fight harder than fighting for 15th place? Honestly, yes, because it’s just how it is.
“So I think it’s to be expected. I’m not saying whether everything was correct and by the book, maybe some things were pushing it.”
KMag:
"It’s frustrating that it’s always going back and forth with the rules,” he said. “I think maybe they just have to make it more free.
“At the end of the day Max paid, he got a penalty, which I guess was correct by the rules. But at the end of the day he got a natural penalty with his puncture. So it didn’t pay off for him to drive the way he did in that moment.
“I just think there is a natural sort of dynamic to racing. If you let the drivers race free they will race hard. But at the end of the day, you want to be finishing races, you want to be taking care of your car. And that kind of stuff stops the drivers from doing too crazy things. I think it’s better to be trusting each other based on everyone wanting to finish the race for themselves rather than relying on people to stick to the rules or whatever.
“I kind of had a little bit of that in Monaco where I have my car in the space that, by the rules, you shouldn’t lose that space. But I lost that space, and that didn’t pay off for me.”
While Magnussen insisted “I’m not saying we should have no rules at all” he believes a looser approach to regulating racing, as he’s experienced in America, would benefit F1.
“I’ve raced in IndyCar myself and also in sports cars, and I think in the US they have this approach that they just let the drivers race and it works. It’s not like it’s going crazy over there because you go over there and you just you come back to how I was racing in karting back in the day where there wasn’t really all these specific rules about everything and it just kind of worked out naturally and the racing was great.”
Nonetheless Magnussen conceded that stewards should pay close attention to drivers moving under braking.
“Reacting to someone, I think you have to make your move before the other guy does, otherwise if someone’s slipstreaming you and you move just after he’s moved, that’s dangerous. You can’t do that. And under braking once you hit the brakes to change direction too much is also dangerous.”
______
Again highlighting that the majority of views here are an overreaction.
the reality of it was just pure racing, hard racing” between the two drivers.
“It’s aggressive racing but I think it’s blown out of proportion, in my opinion,” said the Williams driver.”
“I think it was questionable more the first move where Max moved under the braking the first time. I don’t really think he moved under braking on the one where they made contact. I think that was more just kind of heading more towards a straight line, just going more towards the left.”
Nico Hulkenberg:
“To be honest, for me Max wasn’t doing much. He was more or less driving in a straight line. We have to leave a car width which I think there was and there was still kerb on the left and not a wall and room, so no.
“I think the stewards got involved quite a lot last weekend, but it’s personal opinion, personal views, and like I say for me that was that was just racing.”
He felt the pair were unfortunate to sustain punctures when they made contact. “It was racing, for me,” said Hulkenberg. “There was next to no contact.
“There was the slightest of contact, I don’t think you could have less contact, it’s just obviously quite bad how they hit in that both rims kind of broke from that. But usually you get away with that kind of contact.
“So I felt it was all ‘biffed up’ quite a bit and dramatic. And for me, it was just racing."
Danny Ric:
“I think the moving under braking, I have an understanding of what I should do and shouldn’t do,” he said. “If you look at it, yeah it’s hard, but you’re also fighting for a win so you’re not going to just wave someone by. I think the contact, that can happen probably nine times out of ten with no consequence.
“They’d been going at it back and forth. Maybe the angle was a bit awkward. Obviously Lando ended the race but I think the outcome was bigger than probably what was actually happening on track.
“What I saw, at least, nothing seemed over the top. Was it pushing the edge? Probably. But was anything dangerous or reckless, at least from what I’ve seen. No.”
He believes other drivers would have fought Norris as hard for the lead as Verstappen did. “I don’t even want to spotlight Max. I think when you’re fighting for a win, are you going to fight harder than fighting for 15th place? Honestly, yes, because it’s just how it is.
“So I think it’s to be expected. I’m not saying whether everything was correct and by the book, maybe some things were pushing it.”
KMag:
"It’s frustrating that it’s always going back and forth with the rules,” he said. “I think maybe they just have to make it more free.
“At the end of the day Max paid, he got a penalty, which I guess was correct by the rules. But at the end of the day he got a natural penalty with his puncture. So it didn’t pay off for him to drive the way he did in that moment.
“I just think there is a natural sort of dynamic to racing. If you let the drivers race free they will race hard. But at the end of the day, you want to be finishing races, you want to be taking care of your car. And that kind of stuff stops the drivers from doing too crazy things. I think it’s better to be trusting each other based on everyone wanting to finish the race for themselves rather than relying on people to stick to the rules or whatever.
“I kind of had a little bit of that in Monaco where I have my car in the space that, by the rules, you shouldn’t lose that space. But I lost that space, and that didn’t pay off for me.”
While Magnussen insisted “I’m not saying we should have no rules at all” he believes a looser approach to regulating racing, as he’s experienced in America, would benefit F1.
“I’ve raced in IndyCar myself and also in sports cars, and I think in the US they have this approach that they just let the drivers race and it works. It’s not like it’s going crazy over there because you go over there and you just you come back to how I was racing in karting back in the day where there wasn’t really all these specific rules about everything and it just kind of worked out naturally and the racing was great.”
Nonetheless Magnussen conceded that stewards should pay close attention to drivers moving under braking.
“Reacting to someone, I think you have to make your move before the other guy does, otherwise if someone’s slipstreaming you and you move just after he’s moved, that’s dangerous. You can’t do that. And under braking once you hit the brakes to change direction too much is also dangerous.”
______
Again highlighting that the majority of views here are an overreaction.
honda_exige said:
Albon:
the reality of it was just pure racing, hard racing” between the two drivers.
“It’s aggressive racing but I think it’s blown out of proportion, in my opinion,” said the Williams driver.”
“I think it was questionable more the first move where Max moved under the braking the first time. I don’t really think he moved under braking on the one where they made contact. I think that was more just kind of heading more towards a straight line, just going more towards the left.”
Nico Hulkenberg:
“To be honest, for me Max wasn’t doing much. He was more or less driving in a straight line. We have to leave a car width which I think there was and there was still kerb on the left and not a wall and room, so no.
“I think the stewards got involved quite a lot last weekend, but it’s personal opinion, personal views, and like I say for me that was that was just racing.”
He felt the pair were unfortunate to sustain punctures when they made contact. “It was racing, for me,” said Hulkenberg. “There was next to no contact.
“There was the slightest of contact, I don’t think you could have less contact, it’s just obviously quite bad how they hit in that both rims kind of broke from that. But usually you get away with that kind of contact.
“So I felt it was all ‘biffed up’ quite a bit and dramatic. And for me, it was just racing."
Danny Ric:
“I think the moving under braking, I have an understanding of what I should do and shouldn’t do,” he said. “If you look at it, yeah it’s hard, but you’re also fighting for a win so you’re not going to just wave someone by. I think the contact, that can happen probably nine times out of ten with no consequence.
“They’d been going at it back and forth. Maybe the angle was a bit awkward. Obviously Lando ended the race but I think the outcome was bigger than probably what was actually happening on track.
“What I saw, at least, nothing seemed over the top. Was it pushing the edge? Probably. But was anything dangerous or reckless, at least from what I’ve seen. No.”
He believes other drivers would have fought Norris as hard for the lead as Verstappen did. “I don’t even want to spotlight Max. I think when you’re fighting for a win, are you going to fight harder than fighting for 15th place? Honestly, yes, because it’s just how it is.
“So I think it’s to be expected. I’m not saying whether everything was correct and by the book, maybe some things were pushing it.”
KMag:
"It’s frustrating that it’s always going back and forth with the rules,” he said. “I think maybe they just have to make it more free.
“At the end of the day Max paid, he got a penalty, which I guess was correct by the rules. But at the end of the day he got a natural penalty with his puncture. So it didn’t pay off for him to drive the way he did in that moment.
“I just think there is a natural sort of dynamic to racing. If you let the drivers race free they will race hard. But at the end of the day, you want to be finishing races, you want to be taking care of your car. And that kind of stuff stops the drivers from doing too crazy things. I think it’s better to be trusting each other based on everyone wanting to finish the race for themselves rather than relying on people to stick to the rules or whatever.
“I kind of had a little bit of that in Monaco where I have my car in the space that, by the rules, you shouldn’t lose that space. But I lost that space, and that didn’t pay off for me.”
While Magnussen insisted “I’m not saying we should have no rules at all” he believes a looser approach to regulating racing, as he’s experienced in America, would benefit F1.
“I’ve raced in IndyCar myself and also in sports cars, and I think in the US they have this approach that they just let the drivers race and it works. It’s not like it’s going crazy over there because you go over there and you just you come back to how I was racing in karting back in the day where there wasn’t really all these specific rules about everything and it just kind of worked out naturally and the racing was great.”
Nonetheless Magnussen conceded that stewards should pay close attention to drivers moving under braking.
“Reacting to someone, I think you have to make your move before the other guy does, otherwise if someone’s slipstreaming you and you move just after he’s moved, that’s dangerous. You can’t do that. And under braking once you hit the brakes to change direction too much is also dangerous.”
______
Again highlighting that the majority of views here are an overreaction.
And the reactions of the Brundle, Palmer, and Davidson.the reality of it was just pure racing, hard racing” between the two drivers.
“It’s aggressive racing but I think it’s blown out of proportion, in my opinion,” said the Williams driver.”
“I think it was questionable more the first move where Max moved under the braking the first time. I don’t really think he moved under braking on the one where they made contact. I think that was more just kind of heading more towards a straight line, just going more towards the left.”
Nico Hulkenberg:
“To be honest, for me Max wasn’t doing much. He was more or less driving in a straight line. We have to leave a car width which I think there was and there was still kerb on the left and not a wall and room, so no.
“I think the stewards got involved quite a lot last weekend, but it’s personal opinion, personal views, and like I say for me that was that was just racing.”
He felt the pair were unfortunate to sustain punctures when they made contact. “It was racing, for me,” said Hulkenberg. “There was next to no contact.
“There was the slightest of contact, I don’t think you could have less contact, it’s just obviously quite bad how they hit in that both rims kind of broke from that. But usually you get away with that kind of contact.
“So I felt it was all ‘biffed up’ quite a bit and dramatic. And for me, it was just racing."
Danny Ric:
“I think the moving under braking, I have an understanding of what I should do and shouldn’t do,” he said. “If you look at it, yeah it’s hard, but you’re also fighting for a win so you’re not going to just wave someone by. I think the contact, that can happen probably nine times out of ten with no consequence.
“They’d been going at it back and forth. Maybe the angle was a bit awkward. Obviously Lando ended the race but I think the outcome was bigger than probably what was actually happening on track.
“What I saw, at least, nothing seemed over the top. Was it pushing the edge? Probably. But was anything dangerous or reckless, at least from what I’ve seen. No.”
He believes other drivers would have fought Norris as hard for the lead as Verstappen did. “I don’t even want to spotlight Max. I think when you’re fighting for a win, are you going to fight harder than fighting for 15th place? Honestly, yes, because it’s just how it is.
“So I think it’s to be expected. I’m not saying whether everything was correct and by the book, maybe some things were pushing it.”
KMag:
"It’s frustrating that it’s always going back and forth with the rules,” he said. “I think maybe they just have to make it more free.
“At the end of the day Max paid, he got a penalty, which I guess was correct by the rules. But at the end of the day he got a natural penalty with his puncture. So it didn’t pay off for him to drive the way he did in that moment.
“I just think there is a natural sort of dynamic to racing. If you let the drivers race free they will race hard. But at the end of the day, you want to be finishing races, you want to be taking care of your car. And that kind of stuff stops the drivers from doing too crazy things. I think it’s better to be trusting each other based on everyone wanting to finish the race for themselves rather than relying on people to stick to the rules or whatever.
“I kind of had a little bit of that in Monaco where I have my car in the space that, by the rules, you shouldn’t lose that space. But I lost that space, and that didn’t pay off for me.”
While Magnussen insisted “I’m not saying we should have no rules at all” he believes a looser approach to regulating racing, as he’s experienced in America, would benefit F1.
“I’ve raced in IndyCar myself and also in sports cars, and I think in the US they have this approach that they just let the drivers race and it works. It’s not like it’s going crazy over there because you go over there and you just you come back to how I was racing in karting back in the day where there wasn’t really all these specific rules about everything and it just kind of worked out naturally and the racing was great.”
Nonetheless Magnussen conceded that stewards should pay close attention to drivers moving under braking.
“Reacting to someone, I think you have to make your move before the other guy does, otherwise if someone’s slipstreaming you and you move just after he’s moved, that’s dangerous. You can’t do that. And under braking once you hit the brakes to change direction too much is also dangerous.”
______
Again highlighting that the majority of views here are an overreaction.
And the stewards.
I think now it moves towards what KMag is saying. Max is skirting the very edge of rule adherence. It's up to the rest to join in.
MV DID get a penalty for his repeated violations.
LN DID get a penalty for his repeated violations.
sadly for the sake of a close championship, MV can afford to skirt closer to the rules than any of the rest of the field.
Whatever else it is, it's unattractive yet efficient.
MV DID get a penalty for his repeated violations.
LN DID get a penalty for his repeated violations.
sadly for the sake of a close championship, MV can afford to skirt closer to the rules than any of the rest of the field.
Whatever else it is, it's unattractive yet efficient.
paulguitar said:
honda_exige said:
Albon:
the reality of it was just pure racing, hard racing” between the two drivers.
“It’s aggressive racing but I think it’s blown out of proportion, in my opinion,” said the Williams driver.”
“I think it was questionable more the first move where Max moved under the braking the first time. I don’t really think he moved under braking on the one where they made contact. I think that was more just kind of heading more towards a straight line, just going more towards the left.”
Nico Hulkenberg:
“To be honest, for me Max wasn’t doing much. He was more or less driving in a straight line. We have to leave a car width which I think there was and there was still kerb on the left and not a wall and room, so no.
“I think the stewards got involved quite a lot last weekend, but it’s personal opinion, personal views, and like I say for me that was that was just racing.”
He felt the pair were unfortunate to sustain punctures when they made contact. “It was racing, for me,” said Hulkenberg. “There was next to no contact.
“There was the slightest of contact, I don’t think you could have less contact, it’s just obviously quite bad how they hit in that both rims kind of broke from that. But usually you get away with that kind of contact.
“So I felt it was all ‘biffed up’ quite a bit and dramatic. And for me, it was just racing."
Danny Ric:
“I think the moving under braking, I have an understanding of what I should do and shouldn’t do,” he said. “If you look at it, yeah it’s hard, but you’re also fighting for a win so you’re not going to just wave someone by. I think the contact, that can happen probably nine times out of ten with no consequence.
“They’d been going at it back and forth. Maybe the angle was a bit awkward. Obviously Lando ended the race but I think the outcome was bigger than probably what was actually happening on track.
“What I saw, at least, nothing seemed over the top. Was it pushing the edge? Probably. But was anything dangerous or reckless, at least from what I’ve seen. No.”
He believes other drivers would have fought Norris as hard for the lead as Verstappen did. “I don’t even want to spotlight Max. I think when you’re fighting for a win, are you going to fight harder than fighting for 15th place? Honestly, yes, because it’s just how it is.
“So I think it’s to be expected. I’m not saying whether everything was correct and by the book, maybe some things were pushing it.”
KMag:
"It’s frustrating that it’s always going back and forth with the rules,” he said. “I think maybe they just have to make it more free.
“At the end of the day Max paid, he got a penalty, which I guess was correct by the rules. But at the end of the day he got a natural penalty with his puncture. So it didn’t pay off for him to drive the way he did in that moment.
“I just think there is a natural sort of dynamic to racing. If you let the drivers race free they will race hard. But at the end of the day, you want to be finishing races, you want to be taking care of your car. And that kind of stuff stops the drivers from doing too crazy things. I think it’s better to be trusting each other based on everyone wanting to finish the race for themselves rather than relying on people to stick to the rules or whatever.
“I kind of had a little bit of that in Monaco where I have my car in the space that, by the rules, you shouldn’t lose that space. But I lost that space, and that didn’t pay off for me.”
While Magnussen insisted “I’m not saying we should have no rules at all” he believes a looser approach to regulating racing, as he’s experienced in America, would benefit F1.
“I’ve raced in IndyCar myself and also in sports cars, and I think in the US they have this approach that they just let the drivers race and it works. It’s not like it’s going crazy over there because you go over there and you just you come back to how I was racing in karting back in the day where there wasn’t really all these specific rules about everything and it just kind of worked out naturally and the racing was great.”
Nonetheless Magnussen conceded that stewards should pay close attention to drivers moving under braking.
“Reacting to someone, I think you have to make your move before the other guy does, otherwise if someone’s slipstreaming you and you move just after he’s moved, that’s dangerous. You can’t do that. And under braking once you hit the brakes to change direction too much is also dangerous.”
______
Again highlighting that the majority of views here are an overreaction.
And the reactions of the Brundle, Palmer, and Davidson.the reality of it was just pure racing, hard racing” between the two drivers.
“It’s aggressive racing but I think it’s blown out of proportion, in my opinion,” said the Williams driver.”
“I think it was questionable more the first move where Max moved under the braking the first time. I don’t really think he moved under braking on the one where they made contact. I think that was more just kind of heading more towards a straight line, just going more towards the left.”
Nico Hulkenberg:
“To be honest, for me Max wasn’t doing much. He was more or less driving in a straight line. We have to leave a car width which I think there was and there was still kerb on the left and not a wall and room, so no.
“I think the stewards got involved quite a lot last weekend, but it’s personal opinion, personal views, and like I say for me that was that was just racing.”
He felt the pair were unfortunate to sustain punctures when they made contact. “It was racing, for me,” said Hulkenberg. “There was next to no contact.
“There was the slightest of contact, I don’t think you could have less contact, it’s just obviously quite bad how they hit in that both rims kind of broke from that. But usually you get away with that kind of contact.
“So I felt it was all ‘biffed up’ quite a bit and dramatic. And for me, it was just racing."
Danny Ric:
“I think the moving under braking, I have an understanding of what I should do and shouldn’t do,” he said. “If you look at it, yeah it’s hard, but you’re also fighting for a win so you’re not going to just wave someone by. I think the contact, that can happen probably nine times out of ten with no consequence.
“They’d been going at it back and forth. Maybe the angle was a bit awkward. Obviously Lando ended the race but I think the outcome was bigger than probably what was actually happening on track.
“What I saw, at least, nothing seemed over the top. Was it pushing the edge? Probably. But was anything dangerous or reckless, at least from what I’ve seen. No.”
He believes other drivers would have fought Norris as hard for the lead as Verstappen did. “I don’t even want to spotlight Max. I think when you’re fighting for a win, are you going to fight harder than fighting for 15th place? Honestly, yes, because it’s just how it is.
“So I think it’s to be expected. I’m not saying whether everything was correct and by the book, maybe some things were pushing it.”
KMag:
"It’s frustrating that it’s always going back and forth with the rules,” he said. “I think maybe they just have to make it more free.
“At the end of the day Max paid, he got a penalty, which I guess was correct by the rules. But at the end of the day he got a natural penalty with his puncture. So it didn’t pay off for him to drive the way he did in that moment.
“I just think there is a natural sort of dynamic to racing. If you let the drivers race free they will race hard. But at the end of the day, you want to be finishing races, you want to be taking care of your car. And that kind of stuff stops the drivers from doing too crazy things. I think it’s better to be trusting each other based on everyone wanting to finish the race for themselves rather than relying on people to stick to the rules or whatever.
“I kind of had a little bit of that in Monaco where I have my car in the space that, by the rules, you shouldn’t lose that space. But I lost that space, and that didn’t pay off for me.”
While Magnussen insisted “I’m not saying we should have no rules at all” he believes a looser approach to regulating racing, as he’s experienced in America, would benefit F1.
“I’ve raced in IndyCar myself and also in sports cars, and I think in the US they have this approach that they just let the drivers race and it works. It’s not like it’s going crazy over there because you go over there and you just you come back to how I was racing in karting back in the day where there wasn’t really all these specific rules about everything and it just kind of worked out naturally and the racing was great.”
Nonetheless Magnussen conceded that stewards should pay close attention to drivers moving under braking.
“Reacting to someone, I think you have to make your move before the other guy does, otherwise if someone’s slipstreaming you and you move just after he’s moved, that’s dangerous. You can’t do that. And under braking once you hit the brakes to change direction too much is also dangerous.”
______
Again highlighting that the majority of views here are an overreaction.
And the stewards.
Let's do a deal, I'll accept Brundle's views on Austria if you accept his views on AD21
honda_exige said:
The stewards didn't overreact though, they penalised the contact and no more - full agreement with that.
Fair enough.honda_exige said:
Let's do a deal, I'll accept Brundle's views on Austria if you accept his views on AD21
The head-in-the-sand behaviour of Brundle, Hill and others after the AD debacle means I will never respect them as I did before. And I'm sure they will be devastated about that.
MarkwG said:
Except it wasn't in the braking zone, was it, where the rules are clear & there for good reason. I don't see anyone getting "way too excited", they're just sick of the Verstappen justification bs.
Just to be clear, you think it's fine to push people off the track so long it's not in the braking zone? Lol
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