Max Verstappen
Discussion
carlo996 said:
>snip<...It's genuinely funny the level of personal comments when some don't agree with a pov...
When you state that you have the same mindset as Max towards cheating to win, then it is "genuinely" odd that you do not expect "personal comments" to be made regarding your pov. davidd said:
I think a lot of this is very valid, we want the sport and technical rules to be pushed to the limit. However where a driver is breaking them on track then they should be punished properly, be that Max, Lando, Lewis or whoever...
People also need to remember this is entertainment.....
Sport is entertaining only so long as it is sport. Once you consider it entertainment, and justify departure from the ideals of fair sporting competition, it becomes dull entertainment. People also need to remember this is entertainment.....
Sport is entertaining only because you don’t know if it’s going to be entertaining.
F1 has been obviously entertainment since 2021, it very often skirted that line well before that it was just better managed.
I want to see technical challenges to the rules, this drives innovation. I don't want to see drivers trying to put someone else of the road, those two types of cheating are very different.
I want to see technical challenges to the rules, this drives innovation. I don't want to see drivers trying to put someone else of the road, those two types of cheating are very different.
carlo996 said:
Muzzer79 said:
What a terribly sad viewpoint.
There's nothing wrong with hard competition - pushing to the rules to the limits and not giving an inch.
But breaking the rules is not acceptable in any sport - otherwise, what's the point in rules?
Rules are pushed by everyone, all the time in competition, if not....then you are not really in the right place. There's nothing wrong with hard competition - pushing to the rules to the limits and not giving an inch.
But breaking the rules is not acceptable in any sport - otherwise, what's the point in rules?
Breaking them is not acceptable.
carlo996 said:
. Spygate, Crashgate, water cooled brakes, weight tricks, aero tricks, fuelgate, traction control, team orders....and guess what.....none of these involved RB 
As for Mercedes, fancy steering, front wing, cooling wheel, this is what happens when you push the envelope. It's not a 'following the rules' type sport racing prototypes!
Spygate, Crashgate, water-cooled brakes, fuelgate - all cheating and all rightly condemned. Crashgate is what rightly sees Briatore sneered at for returning to Alpine. As for Mercedes, fancy steering, front wing, cooling wheel, this is what happens when you push the envelope. It's not a 'following the rules' type sport racing prototypes! Active suspension, mid-wings, DAS, X-wings, Fan cars, six-wheel cars, brake steer - all pushing the envelope and rightly applauded.
carlo996 said:
Think what you will but without Verstappen and Red Bull the sport would be a weaker spectacle. They have forced the other teams to up their games and the dominance is cyclical, as has been said many, many times we have seen this dominance with other teams in the past. If he was a Brit, I very much doubt there would be half the fuss being made.
Weaker spectacle? I hardly think that F1 would be weaker without one guy winning every race.As for not being British, I can recall many non-British drivers who were/are loved on these shores - Senna, Schumacher, Alesi, Montoya, Villeneuve to name just 5.
Verstappen gets a hard time for his attitude, not his nationality. Red Bull get a hard time for their arrogance.
PlywoodPascal said:
Sport is entertaining only so long as it is sport. Once you consider it entertainment, and justify departure from the ideals of fair sporting competition, it becomes dull entertainment.
Sport is entertaining only because you don’t know if it’s going to be entertaining.
I'm using that. Like it Sport is entertaining only because you don’t know if it’s going to be entertaining.
Muzzer79 said:
carlo996 said:
Muzzer79 said:
What a terribly sad viewpoint.
There's nothing wrong with hard competition - pushing to the rules to the limits and not giving an inch.
But breaking the rules is not acceptable in any sport - otherwise, what's the point in rules?
Rules are pushed by everyone, all the time in competition, if not....then you are not really in the right place. There's nothing wrong with hard competition - pushing to the rules to the limits and not giving an inch.
But breaking the rules is not acceptable in any sport - otherwise, what's the point in rules?
Breaking them is not acceptable.
carlo996 said:
. Spygate, Crashgate, water cooled brakes, weight tricks, aero tricks, fuelgate, traction control, team orders....and guess what.....none of these involved RB As for Mercedes, fancy steering, front wing, cooling wheel, this is what happens when you push the envelope. It's not a 'following the rules' type sport racing prototypes!
Spygate, Crashgate, water-cooled brakes, fuelgate - all cheating and all rightly condemned. Crashgate is what rightly sees Briatore sneered at for returning to Alpine. As for Mercedes, fancy steering, front wing, cooling wheel, this is what happens when you push the envelope. It's not a 'following the rules' type sport racing prototypes! Active suspension, mid-wings, DAS, X-wings, Fan cars, six-wheel cars, brake steer - all pushing the envelope and rightly applauded.
carlo996 said:
Think what you will but without Verstappen and Red Bull the sport would be a weaker spectacle. They have forced the other teams to up their games and the dominance is cyclical, as has been said many, many times we have seen this dominance with other teams in the past. If he was a Brit, I very much doubt there would be half the fuss being made.
Weaker spectacle? I hardly think that F1 would be weaker without one guy winning every race.As for not being British, I can recall many non-British drivers who were/are loved on these shores - Senna, Schumacher, Alesi, Montoya, Villeneuve to name just 5.
Verstappen gets a hard time for his attitude, not his nationality. Red Bull get a hard time for their arrogance.
But you're arguing with someone to basic to understand the difference. He... really, doesn't get it.
MustangGT said:
carlo996 said:
The only rubbish is spouted by those who need to push their personal narrative, and have likely zero track experience themselves.
Which is precisely what you are doing.Verstappen was clearly in the wrong, yet here you are defending him. If he was not in the wrong why did the stewards see fit to award 2 points on his licence?
Muzzer79 said:
Weaker spectacle? I hardly think that F1 would be weaker without one guy winning every race.
As for not being British, I can recall many non-British drivers who were/are loved on these shores - Senna, Schumacher, Alesi, Montoya, Villeneuve to name just 5.
Verstappen gets a hard time for his attitude, not his nationality. Red Bull get a hard time for their arrogance.
He knows that. He's just pretending that it's xenophobia because he knows it will get people here to react and give him attention.As for not being British, I can recall many non-British drivers who were/are loved on these shores - Senna, Schumacher, Alesi, Montoya, Villeneuve to name just 5.
Verstappen gets a hard time for his attitude, not his nationality. Red Bull get a hard time for their arrogance.
TheDeuce said:
Muzzer79 said:
carlo996 said:
Muzzer79 said:
What a terribly sad viewpoint.
There's nothing wrong with hard competition - pushing to the rules to the limits and not giving an inch.
But breaking the rules is not acceptable in any sport - otherwise, what's the point in rules?
Rules are pushed by everyone, all the time in competition, if not....then you are not really in the right place. There's nothing wrong with hard competition - pushing to the rules to the limits and not giving an inch.
But breaking the rules is not acceptable in any sport - otherwise, what's the point in rules?
Breaking them is not acceptable.
carlo996 said:
. Spygate, Crashgate, water cooled brakes, weight tricks, aero tricks, fuelgate, traction control, team orders....and guess what.....none of these involved RB As for Mercedes, fancy steering, front wing, cooling wheel, this is what happens when you push the envelope. It's not a 'following the rules' type sport racing prototypes!
Spygate, Crashgate, water-cooled brakes, fuelgate - all cheating and all rightly condemned. Crashgate is what rightly sees Briatore sneered at for returning to Alpine. As for Mercedes, fancy steering, front wing, cooling wheel, this is what happens when you push the envelope. It's not a 'following the rules' type sport racing prototypes! Active suspension, mid-wings, DAS, X-wings, Fan cars, six-wheel cars, brake steer - all pushing the envelope and rightly applauded.
carlo996 said:
Think what you will but without Verstappen and Red Bull the sport would be a weaker spectacle. They have forced the other teams to up their games and the dominance is cyclical, as has been said many, many times we have seen this dominance with other teams in the past. If he was a Brit, I very much doubt there would be half the fuss being made.
Weaker spectacle? I hardly think that F1 would be weaker without one guy winning every race.As for not being British, I can recall many non-British drivers who were/are loved on these shores - Senna, Schumacher, Alesi, Montoya, Villeneuve to name just 5.
Verstappen gets a hard time for his attitude, not his nationality. Red Bull get a hard time for their arrogance.
But you're arguing with someone to basic to understand the difference. He... really, doesn't get it.
He said that cheating is knowingly and deliberately doing something in contravention of the regulations and attempting to hide that fact.
Innovating is choosing to interpret the regulations in a way that is transparent to allow property scrutiny and discussion over its legality. Sometimes that scrutiny leads to the determination that something is illegal. And sometimes it doesn't. The difference is transparency.
To a certain extent I agree with Carlo that Red Bull have required other teams to up their game. This is in spite of Verstappen who (along with the whole Horner thing) I think has actually diminished the respect that many may otherwise have for the team. It has nothing to do with him not being British. Had Dan Ticktum ever made it to F1, I'm fairly certain the British fans would have held him in the same regard as they do Max.
StevieBee said:
Perhaps I can help Carlo by quoting Ross Brawn who I think we can all agree knows what's what.
He said that cheating is knowingly and deliberately doing something in contravention of the regulations and attempting to hide that fact.
Innovating is choosing to interpret the regulations in a way that is transparent to allow property scrutiny and discussion over its legality. Sometimes that scrutiny leads to the determination that something is illegal. And sometimes it doesn't. The difference is transparency.
To a certain extent I agree with Carlo that Red Bull have required other teams to up their game. This is in spite of Verstappen who (along with the whole Horner thing) I think has actually diminished the respect that many may otherwise have for the team. It has nothing to do with him not being British. Had Dan Ticktum ever made it to F1, I'm fairly certain the British fans would have held him in the same regard as they do Max.
Referring to the sentence in bold, absolutely correct, DT has no place being anywhere near F1.He said that cheating is knowingly and deliberately doing something in contravention of the regulations and attempting to hide that fact.
Innovating is choosing to interpret the regulations in a way that is transparent to allow property scrutiny and discussion over its legality. Sometimes that scrutiny leads to the determination that something is illegal. And sometimes it doesn't. The difference is transparency.
To a certain extent I agree with Carlo that Red Bull have required other teams to up their game. This is in spite of Verstappen who (along with the whole Horner thing) I think has actually diminished the respect that many may otherwise have for the team. It has nothing to do with him not being British. Had Dan Ticktum ever made it to F1, I'm fairly certain the British fans would have held him in the same regard as they do Max.
I'm not entirely opposed to the truism that nationalistic patriotism style support is fervent through the formula fandom.
Who remembers really getting behind Chilton, Di Resta, and Palmer? (as Brits)
Oh, wait. We didn't.
Yet we (for the most part) really respect and enjoy Jolyn (sp?) on the F1.Tv and we enjoyed Chilton in the TOCA.
Which leads us to the conclusion that we are only supporting winners?
Thus, if Max was indeed a Lancashire lad, perhaps we'd be more behind his style.
Who remembers really getting behind Chilton, Di Resta, and Palmer? (as Brits)
Oh, wait. We didn't.
Yet we (for the most part) really respect and enjoy Jolyn (sp?) on the F1.Tv and we enjoyed Chilton in the TOCA.
Which leads us to the conclusion that we are only supporting winners?
Thus, if Max was indeed a Lancashire lad, perhaps we'd be more behind his style.
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff