Max Verstappen

[TheDeuce]

jules_s said:

TheDeuce said:

I think the most obvious, and sadly very easy to believe explanation for all the above, is: Max realised he had to risk almost certain contact with Lando to prevent being passed by him, and in that moment his focus switched to making damned sure that however they came together, he'd be doing everything in his power to ensure Lando wasn't completing the race.

It was exactly the same 'solution' he dreamt up in 21' when Lewis was fresh out of the pits, ahead of Max and almost certain to win the race - Max drove into him to ensure Lewis didn't exit the session with what would have been a decent points advantage.

I have zero doubt that for a certain type of fan, it's all jolly exciting to see 'their man' being brave and ruthless and winning at any cost... But the reality is it's against the rules, so in effect it's winning by cheating. It's also a trick that can only be played so many times before someone is seriously injured.

yeah yeah - apart from Lando went past MV pretty cleanly roughly 12 sec after the first contact.

The point is that Max was moving around in a way that suggests very strongly that he wanted to do his best to ensure Lando would DNF, or at least be wounded sufficient to stay behind. Obviously Max cant guarantee any such thing, but there is plenty to suggest that was his intention. He caused the collision, you don't do that if you're not also going to do your best to ensure the other guy comes out of it at least as badly, or ideally worse, than you do yourself.

And in the Lewis example there was nothing to suggest he was minded to do anything other than take Lewis out to prevent the win.

[jules_s]

TheDeuce said:

The point is that Max was moving around in a way that suggests very strongly that he wanted to do his best to ensure Lando would DNF, or at least be wounded sufficient to stay behind. Obviously Max cant guarantee any such thing, but there is plenty to suggest that was his intention. He caused the collision, you don't do that if you're not also going to do your best to ensure the other guy comes out of it at least as badly, or ideally worse, than you do yourself.

And in the Lewis example there was nothing to suggest he was minded to do anything other than take Lewis out to prevent the win.

Not arguing with your POV

But quite simply if Lando had a more cool head/limped back to the pits he wouldn't have retired

[carlo996]

jules_s said:

Not arguing with your POV

But quite simply if Lando had a more cool head/limped back to the pits he wouldn't have retired

The problem is. Racing has become much like this forum, a bunch of softies all bhing. What happened was a racing incident, nothing more. Norris is as much of a child as anyone else, he had the pace and could have made it stick elsewhere, but he couldn't wait. It played into Max's hands. Just like Schumacher and Senna the usual handwringers are out to moan, but it's really simple. 2 into 1 doesn't go, never has. So if you are smart you play the long game and make it stick without high risk moves.

[Ken_Code]

carlo996 said:

The problem is. Racing has become much like this forum, a bunch of softies all bhing. What happened was a racing incident, nothing more. Norris is as much of a child as anyone else, he had the pace and could have made it stick elsewhere, but he couldn't wait. It played into Max's hands. Just like Schumacher and Senna the usual handwringers are out to moan, but it's really simple. 2 into 1 doesn't go, never has. So if you are smart you play the long game and make it stick without high risk moves.

Do you work this hard to try to annoy people in real life?

Does it make you come across as badly as it does here?

[TheDeuce]

carlo996 said:

jules_s said:

Not arguing with your POV

But quite simply if Lando had a more cool head/limped back to the pits he wouldn't have retired

The problem is. Racing has become much like this forum, a bunch of softies all bhing. What happened was a racing incident, nothing more. Norris is as much of a child as anyone else, he had the pace and could have made it stick elsewhere, but he couldn't wait. It played into Max's hands. Just like Schumacher and Senna the usual handwringers are out to moan, but it's really simple. 2 into 1 doesn't go, never has. So if you are smart you play the long game and make it stick without high risk moves.

What a load of rubbish

Lando tried several times to pass, at the only places he could possibly pass. The only high risk moves were Max's under braking, and then eventually 'not steering' into Lando by not steering enough to avoid colliding with him.

There's no safe way of passing a driver if they're minded to crash into you if you try.

[jules_s]

carlo996 said:

jules_s said:

Not arguing with your POV

But quite simply if Lando had a more cool head/limped back to the pits he wouldn't have retired

The problem is. Racing has become much like this forum, a bunch of softies all bhing. What happened was a racing incident, nothing more. Norris is as much of a child as anyone else, he had the pace and could have made it stick elsewhere, but he couldn't wait. It played into Max's hands. Just like Schumacher and Senna the usual handwringers are out to moan, but it's really simple. 2 into 1 doesn't go, never has. So if you are smart you play the long game and make it stick without high risk moves.

I don't agree with this POV

The whole issue was (again) caused by Max bullying a driver off the track to maintain position.

Lando will learn like others did ' that's how we go racing now is it?' like CLC voiced.

[carlo996]

TheDeuce said:

What a load of rubbish

Lando tried several times to pass, at the only places he could possibly pass. The only high risk moves were Max's under braking, and then eventually 'not steering' into Lando by not steering enough to avoid colliding with him.

There's no safe way of passing a driver if they're minded to crash into you if you try.

The only rubbish is spouted by those who need to push their personal narrative, and have likely zero track experience themselves. Lando was naive, as you are in defending his knee jerk move.

[carlo996]

jules_s said:

I don't agree with this POV

The whole issue was (again) caused by Max bullying a driver off the track to maintain position.

Lando will learn like others did ' that's how we go racing now is it?' like CLC voiced.

As is known, by every driver worth anything. The only space you can manage is the space directly ahead of you. Norris could have waited, instead he put himself into a high risk move. When that didn't pay off, the only person to blame is himself. You cannot bully a car when it's behind

[TheDeuce]

carlo996 said:

TheDeuce said:

What a load of rubbish

Lando tried several times to pass, at the only places he could possibly pass. The only high risk moves were Max's under braking, and then eventually 'not steering' into Lando by not steering enough to avoid colliding with him.

There's no safe way of passing a driver if they're minded to crash into you if you try.

The only rubbish is spouted by those who need to push their personal narrative, and have likely zero track experience themselves. Lando was naive, as you are in defending his knee jerk move.

Hahahahaaaa it keeps getting better.

That knee jerk move that took about 5 attempts over 8 laps, or whatever it was..

So knee jerk that Mx new it was coming and planned to 'deal with it'...

Why can't you just be a Max fan, but be one without defending everything he does? I don't think I've ever heard you speak critically of him - you do know that fans can criticise their heroes, don't you? If they never do, they look foolish

[carlo996]

TheDeuce said:

Hahahahaaaa it keeps getting better.

That knee jerk move that took about 5 attempts over 8 laps, or whatever it was..

So knee jerk that Mx new it was coming and planned to 'deal with it'...

Why can't you just be a Max fan, but be one without defending everything he does? I don't think I've ever heard you speak critically of him - you do know that fans can criticise their heroes, don't you? If they never do, they look foolish

In this case he was taken out by Norris. What is to argue about. I have been watching F1 for many years and raced both cars and bikes, the general hysteria over a bit of 'he said she said on track is hilarious'. We all know what it's about really, it's purely tribal. So I can't take it seriously tbh.

[TheDeuce]

carlo996 said:

TheDeuce said:

Hahahahaaaa it keeps getting better.

That knee jerk move that took about 5 attempts over 8 laps, or whatever it was..

So knee jerk that Mx new it was coming and planned to 'deal with it'...

Why can't you just be a Max fan, but be one without defending everything he does? I don't think I've ever heard you speak critically of him - you do know that fans can criticise their heroes, don't you? If they never do, they look foolish

In this case he was taken out by Norris. What is to argue about. I have been watching F1 for many years and raced both cars and bikes, the general hysteria over a bit of 'he said she said on track is hilarious'. We all know what it's about really, it's purely tribal. So I can't take it seriously tbh.

Nope... You're purely tribal, and take it very seriously

It's just all the other drivers that have commented that know exactly what Max did, as did the stewards when they gave him penalty on the day and then later on the 2 points on his license. It's just possible the other F1 drivers and stewards have even greater experience of racing than you do?

[carlo996]

TheDeuce said:

Nope... You're purely tribal, and take it very seriously

It's just all the other drivers that have commented that know exactly what Max did, as did the stewards when they gave him penalty on the day and then later on the 2 points on his license. It's just possible the other F1 drivers and stewards have even greater experience of racing than you do?

You are entitled to your opinion, it's a free world. But the 'Grrrrr Max' thing you and others have is pretty funny.

[TheDeuce]

carlo996 said:

TheDeuce said:

Nope... You're purely tribal, and take it very seriously

It's just all the other drivers that have commented that know exactly what Max did, as did the stewards when they gave him penalty on the day and then later on the 2 points on his license. It's just possible the other F1 drivers and stewards have even greater experience of racing than you do?

You are entitled to your opinion, it's a free world. But the 'Grrrrr Max' thing you and others have is pretty funny.

It's just a natural reaction to dangerous and unsportsmanlike behaviour that most people share.

Other than that, Max is actually one of my favourite drivers - epically talented. Hit reckless streak however, is not something I can ignore just because he's great to watch the other 95% of the time.

[carlo996]

TheDeuce said:

It's just a natural reaction to dangerous and unsportsmanlike behaviour that most people share.

Other than that, Max is actually one of my favourite drivers - epically talented. Hit reckless streak however, is not something I can ignore just because he's great to watch the other 95% of the time.

And it is why I love flawed genius. Max is arguably the same Senna/Schumacher mold, they want to win at all costs, which perfectly aligns with my ideals. When you have the likes of Hill moaning, now Norris, for me it is a case of find a way. As for Stella lol, I am sure he's be singing a different tune if Max was in his team.

[TheDeuce]

carlo996 said:

TheDeuce said:

It's just a natural reaction to dangerous and unsportsmanlike behaviour that most people share.

Other than that, Max is actually one of my favourite drivers - epically talented. Hit reckless streak however, is not something I can ignore just because he's great to watch the other 95% of the time.

And it is why I love flawed genius. Max is arguably the same Senna/Schumacher mold, they want to win at all costs, which perfectly aligns with my ideals. When you have the likes of Hill moaning, now Norris, for me it is a case of find a way. As for Stella lol, I am sure he's be singing a different tune if Max was in his team.

Winning by breaking the rules doesn't do it for me.

[Shotgun Jon]

carlo996 said:

And it is why I love flawed genius. Max is arguably the same Senna/Schumacher mold, they want to win at all costs, which perfectly aligns with my ideals. When you have the likes of Hill moaning, now Norris, for me it is a case of find a way. As for Stella lol, I am sure he's be singing a different tune if Max was in his team.

Lol, you need to get yourself a slot at the Apollo so you can tell your jokes there!

[NRS]

Why do people bother responding to Carlo? HE you can chat with, Carlo just posts for a windup.

[carlo996]

NRS said:

Why do people bother responding to Carlo? HE you can chat with, Carlo just posts for a windup.

You'd make a better point posting in legible English. But let me help you. I don't agree with what someone says, so I am going to attempt to diminish this by posting nothing.

Let me know when you have something constructive. Meantime, dry those tears

[carlo996]

TheDeuce said:

Winning by breaking the rules doesn't do it for me.

That's why you are not winning F1 Champs.....

[Teatowell]

Interesting to see team radio shows Max Fat fingering the pit limiter during the VSC and losing a further 4 seconds to Lewis.