Max Verstappen

[Sandpit Steve]

paulguitar said:

I think the most unacceptable thing Vertappoen did was have a second lunge at Norris to 'make sure'. It happens at around 8 seconds into the video below.

You could half believe that he moved right to get off the racing line having noticed he had a puncture - until you see his helmet clearly turned and looking in his right hand mirror at what Norris was up to, throughout the sequence. He had every intention of trying to run the McLaren off and into the wall.

[Basil Brush]

paulguitar said:

I think the most unacceptable thing Verstappen did was have a second lunge at Norris to 'make sure'. It happens at around 8 seconds into the video below.

Edited by paulguitar on Monday 1st July 14:50

I thought the same first time I saw it but I'm not sure if the second hit was at least partially as a result of Max's puncture.

[paulguitar]

Basil Brush said:

paulguitar said:

I think the most unacceptable thing Verstappen did was have a second lunge at Norris to 'make sure'. It happens at around 8 seconds into the video below.

Edited by paulguitar on Monday 1st July 14:50

I thought the same first time I saw it but I'm not sure if the second hit was at least partially as a result of Max's puncture.

Verstappen's onboard:

[Bo_apex]

MustangGT said:

Bo_apex said:

MustangGT said:

heebeegeetee said:

Bo_apex said:

Muzzer79 said:

Bo_apex said:

mattikake said:

We have the MV rule for moving in braking zones, I think there now needs to be a MV punishment. If you force another car into retirement you should be automatically DSQ'd. He's extended his championship lead by 11 points. If it had finished 1-2 he's have only extended that lead by 7 points (6 with LN having fastest lap, which MV also had the opportunity to take that away from him).

Agreed. Your proposed rule should have been applied at Silverstone '21.

And Monza '21 aswell then?

Let's not go there eh?

What happens to the rule when both retire ?

What happens to the rule when stewards find both are to blame, such as Silverstone and Monza '21?

The outcome at Silverstone was dealt with in that way, a time penalty and a DNF, without the DNF it is likely a time penalty would have applied to both.

Didn't Ham apply the DNF to Max ?

No, Max applied the DNF to Max.

and yet Ham received a penalty for it

[Basil Brush]

paulguitar said:

Basil Brush said:

paulguitar said:

I think the most unacceptable thing Verstappen did was have a second lunge at Norris to 'make sure'. It happens at around 8 seconds into the video below.

Edited by paulguitar on Monday 1st July 14:50

I thought the same first time I saw it but I'm not sure if the second hit was at least partially as a result of Max's puncture.

Verstappen's onboard:

I know he turned into Lando's car again, I just meant it may partly have been from fighting the rear of his car coming round with the tyre immediately deflating.

I'm not trying to defend him in anyway. He and Marc Marquez have way too much in common for me!

[paulguitar]

Basil Brush said:

paulguitar said:

Basil Brush said:

paulguitar said:

I think the most unacceptable thing Verstappen did was have a second lunge at Norris to 'make sure'. It happens at around 8 seconds into the video below.

Edited by paulguitar on Monday 1st July 14:50

I thought the same first time I saw it but I'm not sure if the second hit was at least partially as a result of Max's puncture.

Verstappen's onboard:

I know he turned into Lando's car again, I just meant it may partly have been from fighting the rear of his car coming round with the tyre immediately deflating.

I'm not trying to defend him in anyway. He and Marc Marquez have way too much in common for me!

It's hard to be completely sure. Precedent suggests Verstappen has no racing morals. But yes, the puncture could have also been in play.

[gmaz]

paulguitar said:

Verstappen's onboard:

It's amazing that he stays on the racing line after the puncture, even though he's going half the speed of the approaching cars. Seems dangerous to me.

Here's MV vs VB in 2018 doing the same thing (on the left)

[Diderot]

What I found really revealing was that he then forced Lando on to the grass to block him from coming by. .

[MarkwG]

Bo_apex said:

MustangGT said:

Bo_apex said:

MustangGT said:

heebeegeetee said:

Bo_apex said:

Muzzer79 said:

Bo_apex said:

mattikake said:

We have the MV rule for moving in braking zones, I think there now needs to be a MV punishment. If you force another car into retirement you should be automatically DSQ'd. He's extended his championship lead by 11 points. If it had finished 1-2 he's have only extended that lead by 7 points (6 with LN having fastest lap, which MV also had the opportunity to take that away from him).

Agreed. Your proposed rule should have been applied at Silverstone '21.

And Monza '21 aswell then?

Let's not go there eh?

What happens to the rule when both retire ?

What happens to the rule when stewards find both are to blame, such as Silverstone and Monza '21?

The outcome at Silverstone was dealt with in that way, a time penalty and a DNF, without the DNF it is likely a time penalty would have applied to both.

Didn't Ham apply the DNF to Max ?

No, Max applied the DNF to Max.

and yet Ham received a penalty for it

Because the DNF was considered penalty enough...

[hot metal]

mattikake said:

We have the MV rule for moving in braking zones, I think there now needs to be a MV punishment. If you force another car into retirement you should be automatically DSQ'd. He's extended his championship lead by 11 points. If it had finished 1-2 he's have only extended that lead by 7 points (6 with LN having fastest lap, which MV also had the opportunity to take that away from him).

Mathematically ,a win for Max.

[hot metal]

paulguitar said:

I think the most unacceptable thing Verstappen did was have a second lunge at Norris to 'make sure'. It happens at around 8 seconds into the video below.

Edited by paulguitar on Monday 1st July 14:50

While I am not defending Max, that " second lunge" was post puncture, after the initial contact with Lando, so, the car would be a bit all over the place ,so I wouldn`t pin that on him.

[BunkMoreland]

spikyone said:

If you must insist on dragging up Silverstone you could at least acknowledge that the stewards decided Hamilton was not 100% to blame. Unlike yesterday, and pretty much every other collision Max has been involved in.

I wonder what the common denominator is?

Silverstone annoys me. Or rather the loud stupid opinions afterwards!

Its the first lap so no one is going to be on the racing line side by side. LH had the right to be there on the apex. or slightly out from it. All MV had to do was not just blindly turn in and expect LH to disappear or drive off the track to the inside.

Obviously all the MV fanbois blamed LH 100% for it as LH was on the inside.

Yet when a few races later at Monza and MV was on the inside and LH on the outside. And they came together. The same MV fanbois still blamed LH! The absolute irony!

The battles with LH over the years proved to me that MV simply cannot race wheel to wheel to the same level as the all time greats of the sport. And if your peer groups know that you are incapable of being fair, eventually they get tired of you, and start using it against you in other ways.

Basil Brush said:

I know he turned into Lando's car again, I just meant it may partly have been from fighting the rear of his car coming round with the tyre immediately deflating.

I'm not trying to defend him in anyway. He and Marc Marquez have way too much in common for me!

Difference here is Marc has his daft moments. (Thought far less these days than before) But they aren't every race and they aren't every battle. He CAN race safely alongside other and not take them down. (he generally over rides and crashes himself on his own) Ironically of the current gp grid. Pecco is the one that cant handle pressure of wheel to wheel. Which is handy as the GP24 is a rocketship, and he rarely needs to.

I expect MM93 to knacker him next year

[TheDeuce]

EmailAddress said:

hot metal said:

paulguitar said:

I think the most unacceptable thing Verstappen did was have a second lunge at Norris to 'make sure'. It happens at around 8 seconds into the video below.

Edited by paulguitar on Monday 1st July 14:50

While I am not defending Max, that " second lunge" was post puncture, after the initial contact with Lando, so, the car would be a bit all over the place ,so I wouldn`t pin that on him.

Watching Max's onboard, it does look like he's simply wrestling it back under control.

And the third unnecessary move backing into Lando's line, whilst looking in his mirror to make sure Lando was there first? Was that a result of still wrestingling the car..?

It's just that afterwards he managed to continue at the same pace all the way back to the pits and the car didn't appear to be divebombing across the track anymore..

[hot metal]

EmailAddress said:

hot metal said:

paulguitar said:

I think the most unacceptable thing Verstappen did was have a second lunge at Norris to 'make sure'. It happens at around 8 seconds into the video below.

Edited by paulguitar on Monday 1st July 14:50

While I am not defending Max, that " second lunge" was post puncture, after the initial contact with Lando, so, the car would be a bit all over the place ,so I wouldn`t pin that on him.

Watching Max's onboard, it does look like he's simply wrestling it back under control.

The damage had already been done though, as Davidson pointed out, he closed the door at zero notice. Max is a magician at getting the most out of a car for lap after lap but when it comes the subtleties of wheel to wheel racing , he just descends into caveman mode.

[jules_s]

Just watched MV onboard (again)

He drifted right IMO. I won't knock him too much on that tbh. He had cars coming fast passing him on the left.

Lando should have just tucked in behind him (hindsight and all that)

[TheDeuce]

I think the most obvious, and sadly very easy to believe explanation for all the above, is: Max realised he had to risk almost certain contact with Lando to prevent being passed by him, and in that moment his focus switched to making damned sure that however they came together, he'd be doing everything in his power to ensure Lando wasn't completing the race.

It was exactly the same 'solution' he dreamt up in 21' when Lewis was fresh out of the pits, ahead of Max and almost certain to win the race - Max drove into him to ensure Lewis didn't exit the session with what would have been a decent points advantage.

I have zero doubt that for a certain type of fan, it's all jolly exciting to see 'their man' being brave and ruthless and winning at any cost... But the reality is it's against the rules, so in effect it's winning by cheating. It's also a trick that can only be played so many times before someone is seriously injured.

[Jasandjules]

Bo_apex said:

and yet Ham received a penalty for it

Stewards can be wrong. Sometimes so very wrong it is unbelievable - see 2021 for details.

[jules_s]

TheDeuce said:

I think the most obvious, and sadly very easy to believe explanation for all the above, is: Max realised he had to risk almost certain contact with Lando to prevent being passed by him, and in that moment his focus switched to making damned sure that however they came together, he'd be doing everything in his power to ensure Lando wasn't completing the race.

It was exactly the same 'solution' he dreamt up in 21' when Lewis was fresh out of the pits, ahead of Max and almost certain to win the race - Max drove into him to ensure Lewis didn't exit the session with what would have been a decent points advantage.

I have zero doubt that for a certain type of fan, it's all jolly exciting to see 'their man' being brave and ruthless and winning at any cost... But the reality is it's against the rules, so in effect it's winning by cheating. It's also a trick that can only be played so many times before someone is seriously injured.

yeah yeah - apart from Lando went past MV pretty cleanly roughly 12 sec after the first contact.

[CoolHands]

EmailAddress said:

HERE you go.

In Max’s world he hasn’t moved under braking ie turned towards lando, he’s just continued straight, slightly angled toward the outside of the track due to the attitude of his car. So the gap narrows. Hence he will never believe he has broken the rules. Of course, he set it up like that.

[Blib]

Max is going to get heartily booed every time he pops his head out of the RB garage this weekend.