George… the real stuff
Discussion
isaldiri said:
Presuming Ed said:
In F1 currently you have the man that seemingly can do no wrong - Max, Second Norris and then its all fair game after that. I think Russell stands as equal amongst Drivers like Leclerc and Sainz. Yes he can be a bit unreliable but give him a decent car and he'll win. I like the guy. Not sure why he gets so much stick on the forum?
His teammate probably is a good part of why he’s quite so disliked by some…He can be very quick with an excellent track record in most junior categories he competed in. Hasn't shaken off the ability to crash at pressured moments though, which I think puts him in similar territory to Leclerc. With a good car I think he'd give most of he other drivers a very hard time.
Heathwood said:
isaldiri said:
Presuming Ed said:
In F1 currently you have the man that seemingly can do no wrong - Max, Second Norris and then its all fair game after that. I think Russell stands as equal amongst Drivers like Leclerc and Sainz. Yes he can be a bit unreliable but give him a decent car and he'll win. I like the guy. Not sure why he gets so much stick on the forum?
His teammate probably is a good part of why he’s quite so disliked by some…Oilchange said:
Johnny was fast, putting better times in practice than Schumacher, then along came a sudden drop in performance of his car…
In equal machinery Herbert was competitive
Herberts book is well worth the read
I'm not sure it is worth reading if it misrepresents what actually happened as badly as you have described.In equal machinery Herbert was competitive
Herberts book is well worth the read
You say Herbert won in Hungary (he didn't) but he did finish ahead of Schumacher. However, that was because Schumacher retired 4 laps from the end with engine failure (with enough laps completed to be classified). Note that Schumacher spun his car through 360 degrees exiting the final corner at the end of qualifying. He completed the lap which even with the spin was 0.3 seconds faster than Herbert managed! See for yourself on this YouTube clip. Herbert's lap finishes at 4:13 and Schumacher's lap with the spin finishes at 4:38.
Herbert won at Silverstone but only because Schumacher and Hill collided and Coulthard got a stop and go for speeding in the pitlane. All 3 would have finished ahead of him.
Herbert won at Monza but only because Schumacher and Hill collided (again), Coulthard retired with wheel bearing failure, Berger retired when the onboard camera on Alesi's car fell off and broke his suspension and Alesi retired 8 laps from the end with wheel bearing failure. All 5 would have finished ahead of him. In fact there were 14 retirements in total and only 10 finishers.
I was at Silverstone that year and whilst Herbert was a popular winner nobody thought he was in the same league as Schumacher - and I was sat behind the entire Dutch Johnny Herbert Fan Club (total no. of members: 2).
If you are basing your opinion of Herbert and/or Schumacher on Herbert's autobiography and it actually says the things you have posted then I can only suggest you read some other books as it looks like you have been horribly misled.
Discendo Discimus said:
Depends what you mean by "IT".
He's a talented driver. Stick him in the best car and he'll win easily.
Not sure there's much more to be said.
thisHe's a talented driver. Stick him in the best car and he'll win easily.
Not sure there's much more to be said.
as could most of the F1 drivers, they are all very good, they just need the right car at the right time.
See Jenson Button, not the best out there, but had the right car, and was good enough to get the job done, all of them are in the same boat.
Gone are the days of endless testing and a tyre war like Shumacher had.
ralphrj said:
Oilchange said:
Johnny was fast, putting better times in practice than Schumacher, then along came a sudden drop in performance of his car…
In equal machinery Herbert was competitive
Herberts book is well worth the read
I'm not sure it is worth reading if it misrepresents what actually happened as badly as you have described.In equal machinery Herbert was competitive
Herberts book is well worth the read
You say Herbert won in Hungary (he didn't) but he did finish ahead of Schumacher. However, that was because Schumacher retired 4 laps from the end with engine failure (with enough laps completed to be classified). Note that Schumacher spun his car through 360 degrees exiting the final corner at the end of qualifying. He completed the lap which even with the spin was 0.3 seconds faster than Herbert managed! See for yourself on this YouTube clip. Herbert's lap finishes at 4:13 and Schumacher's lap with the spin finishes at 4:38.
Herbert won at Silverstone but only because Schumacher and Hill collided and Coulthard got a stop and go for speeding in the pitlane. All 3 would have finished ahead of him.
Herbert won at Monza but only because Schumacher and Hill collided (again), Coulthard retired with wheel bearing failure, Berger retired when the onboard camera on Alesi's car fell off and broke his suspension and Alesi retired 8 laps from the end with wheel bearing failure. All 5 would have finished ahead of him. In fact there were 14 retirements in total and only 10 finishers.
I was at Silverstone that year and whilst Herbert was a popular winner nobody thought he was in the same league as Schumacher - and I was sat behind the entire Dutch Johnny Herbert Fan Club (total no. of members: 2).
If you are basing your opinion of Herbert and/or Schumacher on Herbert's autobiography and it actually says the things you have posted then I can only suggest you read some other books as it looks like you have been horribly misled.
Herbert was fast. He could challenge MS on one lap. That, it seems, was why he was no longer required in the team.
hondajack85 said:
Maybe trying too hard. We know best car wins. If mercedes get it right for 5 years , Russell would be probably 5x WC.
Thats unless auntie nelly is the real deal.
I assume you mean for the next five years as otherwise I would expect with a winning car Lewis would suddenly be a lot more alive and winning.... Thats unless auntie nelly is the real deal.
George still makes too many mistakes under pressure to be WDC with a half competitive team mate or competition. The only way he would win is if the FIA treated him the way they treated Max in 2021 and basically allowed anything to go for the sake of the show.....
Derek Smith said:
It seems that Herbert out-qualified Schumacher on one qually session, and from then on he was no longer allowed to see MS's data.
I've had a quick look at the results of the qualifying sessions for the rounds up to and including Silverstone and I can't find a single example of Herbert out qualifying Schumacher. In fact I can only find one qualifying session in the whole year where Herbert finished ahead of Schumacher and that was at Spa which was well into the second half of the season - what was Herbert's excuse for being beaten in every one of the 20 qualifying sessions before that?Ultimately Herbert was well liked but lots felt he was never quite as good after his F3000 accident and when he got his opportunity in a front running car against an all-time top driver he came up short (not a height reference).
Derek Smith said:
I was at Silverstone one year at the little kiosk Herbert's parents ran. The talk was about Herbert's sudden drop in qualifying times in comparison. It seems that Herbert out-qualified Schumacher on one qually session, and from then on he was no longer allowed to see MS's data. However, Herbert's was fair game to everyone. It was always worth a stop was that kiosk.
It doesn't sound like somewhere you'd go for an unbiased opinion.Back on topic, this was an interesting read yesterday - https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/is-george-russe...
Derek Smith said:
I was at Silverstone one year at the little kiosk Herbert's parents ran. The talk was about Herbert's sudden drop in qualifying times in comparison. It seems that Herbert out-qualified Schumacher on one qually session, and from then on he was no longer allowed to see MS's data. However, Herbert's was fair game to everyone. It was always worth a stop was that kiosk.
Herbert was fast. He could challenge MS on one lap. That, it seems, was why he was no longer required in the team.
Nope. Herbert was fast. He could challenge MS on one lap. That, it seems, was why he was no longer required in the team.
carlo996 said:
Derek Smith said:
I was at Silverstone one year at the little kiosk Herbert's parents ran. The talk was about Herbert's sudden drop in qualifying times in comparison. It seems that Herbert out-qualified Schumacher on one qually session, and from then on he was no longer allowed to see MS's data. However, Herbert's was fair game to everyone. It was always worth a stop was that kiosk.
Herbert was fast. He could challenge MS on one lap. That, it seems, was why he was no longer required in the team.
Nope. Herbert was fast. He could challenge MS on one lap. That, it seems, was why he was no longer required in the team.
He’s not the full ticket in terms of what makes a world champion. Got mugged far too easy today. Gets far too excited in the cockpit when under pressure. Work in progress rather than the finished article. You would rate Norris ahead of him as well as MV, LH. He’s a bit like Leclerc there’s something there but they will never put all the pieces together for 23 races
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