Sargeant... please sack him!
Discussion
Kart16 said:
super7 said:
Let’s hope not….. 3 years to win F2… 9th, 8th and 1st after all his peer group had moved. F3 was hardly stunning!!!
He’s hardly championship material…. Get Illott back from the US!!
Have you watched the F2 championships? He’s hardly championship material…. Get Illott back from the US!!
Drugovich did very well on the first year, winning 2 or 3 races with I'm not mistaken with mid-field motorsport. Then he moved to Virtuosi and seemed he didn't get well with his engineer and the team. He went back to MP and had one of the most dominating seasons in the history of F2.
Illot lost the championship to Schumacher in a very amateurish way, comitting a very basic mistake in the decisive race. From these two, Drugovich clears deserves a chance.
It's the difference between Zhou and Piastri/Russell
I see Williams have released a video about this specifically saying how they're working with him, they're behind him etc. I massively respect this and the more time passes the more James Vowles impresses me. He's certainly taken a very different approach in regards to media with addressing any issues head-on, from the criticism of their floor to the performance of Logan.
Compare and contrast to the likes of RB/AT with a number of their drivers.........
I know some will criticise this and say backing an underperforming driver won't win points etc etc but I value the ethics of a team over taking a win at any cost.
Compare and contrast to the likes of RB/AT with a number of their drivers.........
I know some will criticise this and say backing an underperforming driver won't win points etc etc but I value the ethics of a team over taking a win at any cost.
C5_Steve said:
I see Williams have released a video about this specifically saying how they're working with him, they're behind him etc. I massively respect this and the more time passes the more James Vowles impresses me. He's certainly taken a very different approach in regards to media with addressing any issues head-on, from the criticism of their floor to the performance of Logan.
Compare and contrast to the likes of RB/AT with a number of their drivers.........
I know some will criticise this and say backing an underperforming driver won't win points etc etc but I value the ethics of a team over taking a win at any cost.
It's lovely - but what else can they say? They're at least stuck with him as their driver for the rest of this season so of course they want to support him the best they can, and certainly not say anything which leads him to think the decision has already been made to not renew him for next season. Even though, I'm sure he along with most of us suspects he won't have that seat, whatever is said in the mean time.Compare and contrast to the likes of RB/AT with a number of their drivers.........
I know some will criticise this and say backing an underperforming driver won't win points etc etc but I value the ethics of a team over taking a win at any cost.
deadslow said:
I do not believe Vowles could possibly want him in the car. He is slow, and crashes, a LOT.
Vowles is being nice, but fundamentally dishonest.
I was trying to put it nicely but.. yes. The writing is on the wall. Vowles can't say that of course, but was probably moved to say something to try and calm Logan down for the remainder of the season. Insecure drivers remain more likely to crash.Vowles is being nice, but fundamentally dishonest.
On the crashing a lot point... add his guesstimated £4m of car damage ahead of the Japan GP, and then the fact he wrecked twice in Japan, and his salary... I reckon he'll have cost the team at least $7m as a driver by the end of the season, and for zero points and no progression as a driver. The kid hasn't got a farts chance of staying in F1.
DanielSan said:
deadslow said:
I do not believe Vowles could possibly want him in the car. He is slow, and crashes, a LOT.
Vowles is being nice, but fundamentally dishonest.
Him wanting to keep Sargent would explain why Bottas was in the car for 2 more years than he should've beenVowles is being nice, but fundamentally dishonest.
That kids toast.
deadslow said:
I do not believe Vowles could possibly want him in the car. He is slow, and crashes, a LOT.
Vowles is being nice, but fundamentally dishonest.
Who exactly are they going to replace him with? Without having to give money to any external team' for their driver. Logan was at least a driver from their own junior drivers.Vowles is being nice, but fundamentally dishonest.
Their own junior drivers consist of four F3 drivers not ready to make the jump to F1, a failed Formula Regional and IndyNXT driver definitely not ready to make the move to F1 and a child in karting.
Peacockantony said:
deadslow said:
I do not believe Vowles could possibly want him in the car. He is slow, and crashes, a LOT.
Vowles is being nice, but fundamentally dishonest.
Who exactly are they going to replace him with? Without having to give money to any external team' for their driver. Logan was at least a driver from their own junior drivers.Vowles is being nice, but fundamentally dishonest.
Their own junior drivers consist of four F3 drivers not ready to make the jump to F1, a failed Formula Regional and IndyNXT driver definitely not ready to make the move to F1 and a child in karting.
His replacement doesn't have to be good, just had to not be as bad. Logan's a very expensive driver!!
Edited by TheDeuce on Friday 29th September 10:09
DanielSan said:
Him wanting to keep Sargent would explain why Bottas was in the car for 2 more years than he should've been
Really? Bottas was the perfect No. 2 driver.5 years at Mercedes, 5 WCC titles. Runner up twice in the WDC and 3rd place twice. How many no. 2 drivers have a better record? Only one who comes close is Barrichello.
C5_Steve said:
I see Williams have released a video about this specifically saying how they're working with him, they're behind him etc. I massively respect this and the more time passes the more James Vowles impresses me. He's certainly taken a very different approach in regards to media with addressing any issues head-on, from the criticism of their floor to the performance of Logan.
Compare and contrast to the likes of RB/AT with a number of their drivers.........
I know some will criticise this and say backing an underperforming driver won't win points etc etc but I value the ethics of a team over taking a win at any cost.
I like him too, and enjoy his contributions from the pit wall when he is the featured team principal on Sky. Does a very good job of explaining the technical aspect. It's right for a team to publicly back their driver when underperforming, the last thing they need is more pressure when already under a lot of scrutiny (RB/Checo anyone?)...Compare and contrast to the likes of RB/AT with a number of their drivers.........
I know some will criticise this and say backing an underperforming driver won't win points etc etc but I value the ethics of a team over taking a win at any cost.
TheDeuce said:
DanielSan said:
deadslow said:
I do not believe Vowles could possibly want him in the car. He is slow, and crashes, a LOT.
Vowles is being nice, but fundamentally dishonest.
Him wanting to keep Sargent would explain why Bottas was in the car for 2 more years than he should've beenVowles is being nice, but fundamentally dishonest.
That kids toast.
He'd probably have to stay out of trouble and bag half a dozen points at least.
Zetec-S said:
I like him too, and enjoy his contributions from the pit wall when he is the featured team principal on Sky. Does a very good job of explaining the technical aspect. It's right for a team to publicly back their driver when underperforming, the last thing they need is more pressure when already under a lot of scrutiny (RB/Checo anyone?)...
Vowles is very good, a brilliant attitude and always comes across well. You can tell that he’s Toto’s protégé, and take a pretty good guess at what his next job might be! Fair play to JV for backing his driver in public, in sharp contrast to other teams and their managers, even if in private he’s taking a good look around at who might be available as a replacement.
Take heart Logan.
I can think of a future WDC who had mixed results in the lower formulae before arriving in a relatively strong F1 team (certainly more competitive than your current team).
Over 4 seasons he was generally out-qualified and out-raced by his good-but-not-great team mate. During this 4 year period his team mate out-scored him nearly 2:1.
Our man suffered some rather embarrassing crashes/underperformances often associated (unlike you) with rather cringeworthy excuses.
Only in his 5th full season of F1 did he find his way onto the top step of the podium.
So sit tight Logan. Follow the career path of Nigel Mansell and maybe you’ll land a seat at Andretti F1 and win the WDC in 2029….
I can think of a future WDC who had mixed results in the lower formulae before arriving in a relatively strong F1 team (certainly more competitive than your current team).
Over 4 seasons he was generally out-qualified and out-raced by his good-but-not-great team mate. During this 4 year period his team mate out-scored him nearly 2:1.
Our man suffered some rather embarrassing crashes/underperformances often associated (unlike you) with rather cringeworthy excuses.
Only in his 5th full season of F1 did he find his way onto the top step of the podium.
So sit tight Logan. Follow the career path of Nigel Mansell and maybe you’ll land a seat at Andretti F1 and win the WDC in 2029….
moffspeed said:
Take heart Logan.
I can think of a future WDC who had mixed results in the lower formulae before arriving in a relatively strong F1 team (certainly more competitive than your current team).
Over 4 seasons he was generally out-qualified and out-raced by his good-but-not-great team mate. During this 4 year period his team mate out-scored him nearly 2:1.
Our man suffered some rather embarrassing crashes/underperformances often associated (unlike you) with rather cringeworthy excuses.
Only in his 5th full season of F1 did he find his way onto the top step of the podium.
So sit tight Logan. Follow the career path of Nigel Mansell and maybe you’ll land a seat at Andretti F1 and win the WDC in 2029….
That's an optimistic take on it I can think of a future WDC who had mixed results in the lower formulae before arriving in a relatively strong F1 team (certainly more competitive than your current team).
Over 4 seasons he was generally out-qualified and out-raced by his good-but-not-great team mate. During this 4 year period his team mate out-scored him nearly 2:1.
Our man suffered some rather embarrassing crashes/underperformances often associated (unlike you) with rather cringeworthy excuses.
Only in his 5th full season of F1 did he find his way onto the top step of the podium.
So sit tight Logan. Follow the career path of Nigel Mansell and maybe you’ll land a seat at Andretti F1 and win the WDC in 2029….
I’m just watching highlights now (47 laps in).
When was the last time a driver retired themselves due to the conditions. I mean Alonso is what 40 years old (now I admit he is super fit and cycles at a very high level) but I would be embarrassed if I was Sargent and had to retire due to fitness / conditions at his age.
When was the last time a driver retired themselves due to the conditions. I mean Alonso is what 40 years old (now I admit he is super fit and cycles at a very high level) but I would be embarrassed if I was Sargent and had to retire due to fitness / conditions at his age.
MB140 said:
I’m just watching highlights now (47 laps in).
When was the last time a driver retired themselves due to the conditions. I mean Alonso is what 40 years old (now I admit he is super fit and cycles at a very high level) but I would be embarrassed if I was Sargent and had to retire due to fitness / conditions at his age.
Bit harsh I thinkWhen was the last time a driver retired themselves due to the conditions. I mean Alonso is what 40 years old (now I admit he is super fit and cycles at a very high level) but I would be embarrassed if I was Sargent and had to retire due to fitness / conditions at his age.
He was ill earlier in the week and several drivers were also struggling
Stroll nearly fainted when he got out of the car, Ocon vomited in his helmet, Albon had to go to a medic at the race end.
I don’t think it was a case of
“I’m a bit hot can I stop now”
It was a safety issue - I’d rather he stopped than bin it into a wall because he’s passed out from heat exhaustion.
MB140 said:
I’m just watching highlights now (47 laps in).
When was the last time a driver retired themselves due to the conditions. I mean Alonso is what 40 years old (now I admit he is super fit and cycles at a very high level) but I would be embarrassed if I was Sargent and had to retire due to fitness / conditions at his age.
Alonso is a real super star at his age and still performing top notch, had to laugh today when he went off the track across all the gravel no doubt bumping his already burning ass (that his team could do nothing about).When was the last time a driver retired themselves due to the conditions. I mean Alonso is what 40 years old (now I admit he is super fit and cycles at a very high level) but I would be embarrassed if I was Sargent and had to retire due to fitness / conditions at his age.
I'd criticise Sargeant for many things but succumbing to the conditions isn't one of them, though driving so slowly on the way back to the pit was dangerous imo. I expect he was really embarrassed and JV secretly very frustrated... but relieved to get LS's car back in one piece.
Overall I feel sorry for LS this year, it's a right public humiliation which isn't nice. I wish he'd resign and take it on the chin rather than be sacked as will inevitably happen.
Scarletpimpofnel said:
MB140 said:
I’m just watching highlights now (47 laps in).
When was the last time a driver retired themselves due to the conditions. I mean Alonso is what 40 years old (now I admit he is super fit and cycles at a very high level) but I would be embarrassed if I was Sargent and had to retire due to fitness / conditions at his age.
Alonso is a real super star at his age and still performing top notch, had to laugh today when he went off the track across all the gravel no doubt bumping his already burning ass (that his team could do nothing about).When was the last time a driver retired themselves due to the conditions. I mean Alonso is what 40 years old (now I admit he is super fit and cycles at a very high level) but I would be embarrassed if I was Sargent and had to retire due to fitness / conditions at his age.
I'd criticise Sargeant for many things but succumbing to the conditions isn't one of them, though driving so slowly on the way back to the pit was dangerous imo. I expect he was really embarrassed and JV secretly very frustrated... but relieved to get LS's car back in one piece.
Overall I feel sorry for LS this year, it's a right public humiliation which isn't nice. I wish he'd resign and take it on the chin rather than be sacked as will inevitably happen.
For some reason he ducked out first, perhaps there is a physical fitness issue that's a factor in that.. or maybe he just doesn't handle heat particularly well.
I agree at this point it's probably best to stop laughing at him. It's always slightly amusing when the sport finds a driver that seems destined to crash under just about all circumstances... but at this stage it's pretty obvious he's plain out of his depth one way or another. It's not gung ho cockiness ala Maldonado, he's genuinely struggling just to do the basic job no matter how sensible he tries to be. And it's his rookie year, it's sad that it's not gone well, he must be gutted.
So I'll stop the sniggering. He's done in F1 after this season, for now at least. Perhaps in another series he can find something and do a lot better.
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