Jamie Chadwick - First competitive female driver in F1?
Discussion
RacerMike said:
Iwantafusca said:
RacerMike said:
andyA700 said:
The reason why women do not progress to the highest level in motorsport, is very simple. It is the same reason why women cannot run faster than Usain Bolt or ride a bike quicker than Chris Hoy, it is down to speed, strength = power.
Formula 1 puts extraordinary demands on the body in the form of G Force. Formula 1 drivers have to be extremely fit, extremely strong, it really is that simple.
Only this has been thoroughly debunked many times. You need to be in peak fitness, but you absolutely do not need to be ‘strong’ to race and F1 car. I assume, for instance you realise that Yukon Tsunoda is the same height as Jamie at 5ft2? And even Alonso is only 5ft6.Formula 1 puts extraordinary demands on the body in the form of G Force. Formula 1 drivers have to be extremely fit, extremely strong, it really is that simple.
Look at the debate on men in womens sports to understand the fundamental differences in biology and fitness.
There will never be a competitive female driver.
You are using the same arguments that trans rights activists and misogynists use, to allow males to compete in female sport.
Iwantafusca said:
RacerMike said:
andyA700 said:
The reason why women do not progress to the highest level in motorsport, is very simple. It is the same reason why women cannot run faster than Usain Bolt or ride a bike quicker than Chris Hoy, it is down to speed, strength = power.
Formula 1 puts extraordinary demands on the body in the form of G Force. Formula 1 drivers have to be extremely fit, extremely strong, it really is that simple.
Only this has been thoroughly debunked many times. You need to be in peak fitness, but you absolutely do not need to be ‘strong’ to race and F1 car. I assume, for instance you realise that Yukon Tsunoda is the same height as Jamie at 5ft2? And even Alonso is only 5ft6.Formula 1 puts extraordinary demands on the body in the form of G Force. Formula 1 drivers have to be extremely fit, extremely strong, it really is that simple.
Look at the debate on men in womens sports to understand the fundamental differences in biology and fitness.
There will never be a competitive female driver.
Iwantafusca said:
RacerMike said:
You do realise how the comments your making are based on fundamentally sexist assumptions? I don't want to be too woke about it (I definitely not someone who is afraid to disagree with a good number the woke brigades opinions on things) but surely most people these days can see that saying stuff like this is on the same level as phrenology?
How in the world is it sexist to point out the fundamental physical differences between men and women ? Lolcarl_w said:
thegreenhell said:
So how well did Susie Wolff do when she did those two FP1 session in the Williams in 2015?
Answer - she was about 8/10ths off teammate Massa's best time in the same sessions in Barcelona and Silverstone.
Is that good or bad or as expected? Or just good 'for a girl'?
Massa was no slouch, certainly better than Mazepin. So I would say that would be pretty good for any test driver in their first couple of tests.Answer - she was about 8/10ths off teammate Massa's best time in the same sessions in Barcelona and Silverstone.
Is that good or bad or as expected? Or just good 'for a girl'?
Massa won 11 races, 41 podiums and was runner up in 2008.
Mazepin crashes cars for a living.
jsf said:
Perez in COTA.
He isn't a particularly fit driver and with his water bottle not working he was wasted after a few laps and couldn't keep the pace up.
so dehydrated & subsequently knackered ...rather than physically knackered from repeated strenuous activityHe isn't a particularly fit driver and with his water bottle not working he was wasted after a few laps and couldn't keep the pace up.
& ironically women have a lower sweat rate
So we've established that women cope perfectly well with High G's as astronauts and fast jet pilots and that being ultra fit as an F1 driver doesn't guarantee success.
Back to the simple statistical fact that with a minuscule participation rate, it's highly unlikely that a woman will be successful in F1. Not impossible, but unlikely. All power to all the women that are participating. No different from any young driver, the hope is that they can get every chance to see how good they are alongside their counterparts.
And let's hope over time, more and more girls start and get hooked before their teens.
Back to the simple statistical fact that with a minuscule participation rate, it's highly unlikely that a woman will be successful in F1. Not impossible, but unlikely. All power to all the women that are participating. No different from any young driver, the hope is that they can get every chance to see how good they are alongside their counterparts.
And let's hope over time, more and more girls start and get hooked before their teens.
Leithen said:
So we've established that women cope perfectly well with High G's as astronauts and fast jet pilots and that being ultra fit as an F1 driver doesn't guarantee success.
Back to the simple statistical fact that with a minuscule participation rate, it's highly unlikely that a woman will be successful in F1. Not impossible, but unlikely. All power to all the women that are participating. No different from any young driver, the hope is that they can get every chance to see how good they are alongside their counterparts.
And let's hope over time, more and more girls start and get hooked before their teens.
How does a single rocket launch equate to 2 hours of constant fighting G force that is also changing direction? Back to the simple statistical fact that with a minuscule participation rate, it's highly unlikely that a woman will be successful in F1. Not impossible, but unlikely. All power to all the women that are participating. No different from any young driver, the hope is that they can get every chance to see how good they are alongside their counterparts.
And let's hope over time, more and more girls start and get hooked before their teens.
TheDeuce said:
How does a single rocket launch equate to 2 hours of constant fighting G force that is also changing direction?
Can we stop trying to make uneducated arguments about g-force, please?An untrained member of the public can face 6G lateral on a rollercoaster, a soldier could walk away (slowly) from a couple hundred G blast shock.
Peak and duration each G event is just as important.
For example a fighter pilot holding high G force would be using a G suit, but a formula one car is mostly seeing lateral G which doesn't effect blood flow to the brain in the same. Similarly, an Indy car driver is probably holding the turn significantly longer than most F1 tracks.
TheDeuce said:
Leithen said:
So we've established that women cope perfectly well with High G's as astronauts and fast jet pilots and that being ultra fit as an F1 driver doesn't guarantee success.
Back to the simple statistical fact that with a minuscule participation rate, it's highly unlikely that a woman will be successful in F1. Not impossible, but unlikely. All power to all the women that are participating. No different from any young driver, the hope is that they can get every chance to see how good they are alongside their counterparts.
And let's hope over time, more and more girls start and get hooked before their teens.
How does a single rocket launch equate to 2 hours of constant fighting G force that is also changing direction? Back to the simple statistical fact that with a minuscule participation rate, it's highly unlikely that a woman will be successful in F1. Not impossible, but unlikely. All power to all the women that are participating. No different from any young driver, the hope is that they can get every chance to see how good they are alongside their counterparts.
And let's hope over time, more and more girls start and get hooked before their teens.
Evanivitch said:
TheDeuce said:
How does a single rocket launch equate to 2 hours of constant fighting G force that is also changing direction?
Can we stop trying to make uneducated arguments about g-force, please?An untrained member of the public can face 6G lateral on a rollercoaster, a soldier could walk away (slowly) from a couple hundred G blast shock.
Peak and duration each G event is just as important.
For example a fighter pilot holding high G force would be using a G suit, but a formula one car is mostly seeing lateral G which doesn't effect blood flow to the brain in the same. Similarly, an Indy car driver is probably holding the turn significantly longer than most F1 tracks.
Anyway, you seem to be agreeing that the g experienced during a rocket launch is indeed not comparable to that experienced by an F1 driver.
andyA700 said:
TheDeuce said:
Leithen said:
So we've established that women cope perfectly well with High G's as astronauts and fast jet pilots and that being ultra fit as an F1 driver doesn't guarantee success.
Back to the simple statistical fact that with a minuscule participation rate, it's highly unlikely that a woman will be successful in F1. Not impossible, but unlikely. All power to all the women that are participating. No different from any young driver, the hope is that they can get every chance to see how good they are alongside their counterparts.
And let's hope over time, more and more girls start and get hooked before their teens.
How does a single rocket launch equate to 2 hours of constant fighting G force that is also changing direction? Back to the simple statistical fact that with a minuscule participation rate, it's highly unlikely that a woman will be successful in F1. Not impossible, but unlikely. All power to all the women that are participating. No different from any young driver, the hope is that they can get every chance to see how good they are alongside their counterparts.
And let's hope over time, more and more girls start and get hooked before their teens.
Previously on FW threads it's been argued that the physical disadvantages women may have can be addressed or reduced with more focused training and fitness - but that's a big mountain to climb and at some point must start to impact and distract from other things a driver should be doing to remain competitive as they progress.
I also believe that a woman could easily train herself to cope with any perceived physical issues, it affects men aswell in all sorts of motorsport.
Maybe if you put two genders of equal talent in a car, and tested them the make might be a little quicker, but s many other things play a part, drive, ambition, determination, will to win.
So the physical argument for me is rather limp.
Maybe if you put two genders of equal talent in a car, and tested them the make might be a little quicker, but s many other things play a part, drive, ambition, determination, will to win.
So the physical argument for me is rather limp.
TheDeuce said:
I'm not sure what part of what you're saying you think conflicts with what you quoted from me..?
Anyway, you seem to be agreeing that the g experienced during a rocket launch is indeed not comparable to that experienced by an F1 driver.
Because F1 drivers spending "2 hours fighting G" isn't any more a valid yard stick as being trained for rocket launches or fighter aircraft.Anyway, you seem to be agreeing that the g experienced during a rocket launch is indeed not comparable to that experienced by an F1 driver.
jsf said:
Perez in COTA.
He isn't a particularly fit driver and with his water bottle not working he was wasted after a few laps and couldn't keep the pace up.
To be fair he was already sickHe isn't a particularly fit driver and with his water bottle not working he was wasted after a few laps and couldn't keep the pace up.
https://www.planetf1.com/news/max-verstappen-poor-...
While it is a physical sport, it requires a finite level of strength and fitness. Human endurance is not a limiting factor at this level. The performance of the cars is capped at a level that is easily achieved by male drivers, and there's no reason to suggest that a female couldn't also reach the required physical level to race F1 cars for the duration of a Grand Prix.
Hamilton and Verstappen aren't fighting for the championship because they are the fittest and strongest athletes. There's a minimum level of physicality required to compete, and beyond that it's a level playing field for anyone, and it comes down to other driving attributes. Having 39% stronger neck muscles is meaningless if the physically weaker driver's neck is already at the required level. It just means your neck muscles are 39% bigger and heavier than they need to be.
Hamilton and Verstappen aren't fighting for the championship because they are the fittest and strongest athletes. There's a minimum level of physicality required to compete, and beyond that it's a level playing field for anyone, and it comes down to other driving attributes. Having 39% stronger neck muscles is meaningless if the physically weaker driver's neck is already at the required level. It just means your neck muscles are 39% bigger and heavier than they need to be.
LukeBrown66 said:
I also believe that a woman could easily train herself to cope with any perceived physical issues, it affects men aswell in all sorts of motorsport.
Maybe if you put two genders of equal talent in a car, and tested them the make might be a little quicker, but s many other things play a part, drive, ambition, determination, will to win.
So the physical argument for me is rather limp.
Do you also believe that a woman could train herself to win the Tour de France, or break a men's marathon record (bearing in mind that more than 15,000 men have run faster than the women's marathon record)?Maybe if you put two genders of equal talent in a car, and tested them the make might be a little quicker, but s many other things play a part, drive, ambition, determination, will to win.
So the physical argument for me is rather limp.
Do you really think that women can overcome all of the physiological differences if they train themselves?
andyA700 said:
Do you also believe that a woman could train herself to win the Tour de France, or break a men's marathon record (bearing in mind that more than 15,000 men have run faster than the women's marathon record)?
Do you really think that women can overcome all of the physiological differences if they train themselves?
No, of course not, but that's irrelevant to F1. F1 is not a contest of who is the most physical. It's a contest of who is the best driver in an environment that requires a moderate but easily-achieved level of physical endurance.Do you really think that women can overcome all of the physiological differences if they train themselves?
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