Monaco was a good example?
Discussion
Jake899 said:
I'm irritated by the amount of negativity in the wake of the Monaco GP.
Monaco is a gem of an event. It must never be taken away, because it will be replaced by some dictators sports washing event with no history, soul, or character.
Yes there wasn't much overtaking. But if you actually physically go there and watch cars hurtling through the confines of the track, lap after lap, millimetre perfect, brushing the armco, it certainly was a sporting competition. It would be like watching a tightrope walking competition and being annoyed that no one fell off. Just appreciate the immense skill you witnessed.
Sure, I think we should investigate how to make overtaking easier in general, that's been an ongoing mission by the authorities for years now. I think rather than making the cars smaller, which will undoubtably help, F1 should focus on the tyres so that drivers can race to the limit without worrying about managing their tyres, that in my opinion was the cause of much of the procession complaints.
But guys, we had a race where Mclaren and Ferrari looked to be actually close to Red Bull on merit. We might finally have a bit of competition in formula 1 and Monaco should be seen as a tribute to talent, precision, reliabilty rather than focus on the negatives. Plus who could be mad at the end result? well done Charles.
I agree. Monaco has always been the same re racing. Yes the current cars make it even harder but Monaco is a unique challenge for the drivers and very different to any other track which also tends to produce a different car / driver winning. Who wants to watch 20 races in a chalk lined car park?Monaco is a gem of an event. It must never be taken away, because it will be replaced by some dictators sports washing event with no history, soul, or character.
Yes there wasn't much overtaking. But if you actually physically go there and watch cars hurtling through the confines of the track, lap after lap, millimetre perfect, brushing the armco, it certainly was a sporting competition. It would be like watching a tightrope walking competition and being annoyed that no one fell off. Just appreciate the immense skill you witnessed.
Sure, I think we should investigate how to make overtaking easier in general, that's been an ongoing mission by the authorities for years now. I think rather than making the cars smaller, which will undoubtably help, F1 should focus on the tyres so that drivers can race to the limit without worrying about managing their tyres, that in my opinion was the cause of much of the procession complaints.
But guys, we had a race where Mclaren and Ferrari looked to be actually close to Red Bull on merit. We might finally have a bit of competition in formula 1 and Monaco should be seen as a tribute to talent, precision, reliabilty rather than focus on the negatives. Plus who could be mad at the end result? well done Charles.
thiscocks said:
Sandpit Steve said:
Jimjimhim said:
They all look the same width? So they've got longer but not fatter?
The maximum width of the car has always been in the regulations, the length of the car and wheelbase haven’t been regulated until the current reg set, which specifies a maximum wheelbase of 3,700mm. A longer car also has a bigger floor and diffuser, and inherently produces more downforce - so they’re faster around a more traditional circuit, and more of a pain on a tight street circuit.
I dont really see the issue with just reducing the maximum wheelbase in the rules. I guess manufactures push back against it as they will struggle to fit all of the hybrid crap in. If the scale is correct in that earlier picture also the length from the nose tip to cockpit is ridiculous: not far off the overall wheelbase of the mp4/4/!
That said, well under a second covered the whole field in qualifying at Monaco, so it might be worth doing if it made a few tenths difference and gained you a hatful of places, given that track position is so important.
thiscocks said:
Jake899 said:
I'm irritated by the amount of negativity in the wake of the Monaco GP.
Monaco is a gem of an event. It must never be taken away, because it will be replaced by some dictators sports washing event with no history, soul, or character.
Yes there wasn't much overtaking. But if you actually physically go there and watch cars hurtling through the confines of the track, lap after lap, millimetre perfect, brushing the armco, it certainly was a sporting competition. It would be like watching a tightrope walking competition and being annoyed that no one fell off. Just appreciate the immense skill you witnessed.
Sure, I think we should investigate how to make overtaking easier in general, that's been an ongoing mission by the authorities for years now. I think rather than making the cars smaller, which will undoubtably help, F1 should focus on the tyres so that drivers can race to the limit without worrying about managing their tyres, that in my opinion was the cause of much of the procession complaints.
But guys, we had a race where Mclaren and Ferrari looked to be actually close to Red Bull on merit. We might finally have a bit of competition in formula 1 and Monaco should be seen as a tribute to talent, precision, reliabilty rather than focus on the negatives. Plus who could be mad at the end result? well done Charles.
I agree. Monaco has always been the same re racing. Yes the current cars make it even harder but Monaco is a unique challenge for the drivers and very different to any other track which also tends to produce a different car / driver winning. Who wants to watch 20 races in a chalk lined car park?Monaco is a gem of an event. It must never be taken away, because it will be replaced by some dictators sports washing event with no history, soul, or character.
Yes there wasn't much overtaking. But if you actually physically go there and watch cars hurtling through the confines of the track, lap after lap, millimetre perfect, brushing the armco, it certainly was a sporting competition. It would be like watching a tightrope walking competition and being annoyed that no one fell off. Just appreciate the immense skill you witnessed.
Sure, I think we should investigate how to make overtaking easier in general, that's been an ongoing mission by the authorities for years now. I think rather than making the cars smaller, which will undoubtably help, F1 should focus on the tyres so that drivers can race to the limit without worrying about managing their tyres, that in my opinion was the cause of much of the procession complaints.
But guys, we had a race where Mclaren and Ferrari looked to be actually close to Red Bull on merit. We might finally have a bit of competition in formula 1 and Monaco should be seen as a tribute to talent, precision, reliabilty rather than focus on the negatives. Plus who could be mad at the end result? well done Charles.
Yes in previous eras the races were also perceived as boring but at least the drivers were respected a lot more for driving on the limit.
entropy said:
What challenge is there on a Sunday? They are lapping much slower than in qualifying! They do it because they know they can get away with it because of pit delta, low tyre deg and near impossible to pass.
Yes in previous eras the races were also perceived as boring but at least the drivers were respected a lot more for driving on the limit.
Made so much worse this year by the first lap red flag and the stupid rule that allows them a free tyre change, so they all simply managed the pace to allow a non-stop procession from that point on. There was one stupid moment where some tailender was lapping five seconds faster than the leaders such was the level of tyre management at the front.Yes in previous eras the races were also perceived as boring but at least the drivers were respected a lot more for driving on the limit.
Sandpit Steve said:
Interesting idea, but the chassis tub is homologated at the start of the season so there’s not an awful lot of shortening they can do in practice, and with the cost cap rules it’s probably not worth designing and building a load of new suspension parts just for one race, especially as you’d need to being a whole load of spares with you in case of the inevitable in practice. Any shortened nose would also need to pass a crash test, and the driver would need training in the sim on the handling characteristics of the ‘short’ car.
That said, well under a second covered the whole field in qualifying at Monaco, so it might be worth doing if it made a few tenths difference and gained you a hatful of places, given that track position is so important.
Current cars have a very long bellhousing between engine and gearbox, to the extent that they actually have a small propshaft between engine crank and gearbox input. They typically use this space to package things like hydraulics and oil system, but only because it is there - its primary purpose is to increase the wheelbase to the maximum allowed. If they wished to, they could shorten the wheelbase quite a bit without touching the homologated monocoque with just some repackaging and a shorter bellhousing.That said, well under a second covered the whole field in qualifying at Monaco, so it might be worth doing if it made a few tenths difference and gained you a hatful of places, given that track position is so important.
Of course it would not be a trivial change now, with the highly developed aero, particularly the underbody tunnels which cannot be shortened in such a manner without having major consequences.
In terms of it requiring new custom parts just for one race, and the need for drivers to acclimatise to the revised car, F1 teams have been doing this for decades with custom aero packages - low drag for Monza, high downforce for Monaco etc - different steering ratios to allow them to get around the Monaco hairpins, different gear ratios for different tracks etc. They would rarely drive the same specification car from one race to the next. It's only in very recent years of parts standardisation and homologation and the cost cap that this isn't done to the degree it once was.
If they were allowed to and if it was beneficial for them to do this again then they do it without a second thought, but with resource restrictions in place they cannot justify spending any of it on a special car for just one race, so they put up with using something that is obviously unsuitable for the task instead as they are all in the same boat.
entropy said:
What challenge is there on a Sunday? They are lapping much slower than in qualifying! They do it because they know they can get away with it because of pit delta, low tyre deg and near impossible to pass.
Yes in previous eras the races were also perceived as boring but at least the drivers were respected a lot more for driving on the limit.
Agree.Yes in previous eras the races were also perceived as boring but at least the drivers were respected a lot more for driving on the limit.
Didn't Schumacher start plum last and finish 5th ?
Overtaking was possible at Monaco.
InformationSuperHighway said:
I'm sure back in the 80's folks were also moaning the cars were fatter than the ones in the 60s... they just didn't have PH to whinge on.
Even if the cars were smaller in the 60s they didn't the swimming pool section, Rascasse or Anthony Noghes; it was a straight blast after Tabac into a hairpin double backed onto the start / finish straight and was a good spot for overtaking if you managed to get alongside.thegreenhell said:
Made so much worse this year by the first lap red flag and the stupid rule that allows them a free tyre change, so they all simply managed the pace to allow a non-stop procession from that point on. There was one stupid moment where some tailender was lapping five seconds faster than the leaders such was the level of tyre management at the front.
I liked Jenson Buttons' idea how to resolve this. Ie under the red flag the teams can replace the tyres like for like just in case they'd picked up debris that could cause punctures. Then once the race restarts, the cars have to come in during the race for at least one tyre change as per the normal rules.I don't like Monaco. The race is habitually boring, with nothing for the drivers to work towards. Tactics, especially with tyres to last the whole race, are all but predictable.
There are, for me, too many GPs. I could manage 15/16, but nowadays, with 20+, I have to cull some. A normally victim of the sword is Monaco. I saw a bit of it Sunday, but only because of the long red flag period.
It doesn't bother me to any extent, although I would prefer a decent race to watch on record.
There are, for me, too many GPs. I could manage 15/16, but nowadays, with 20+, I have to cull some. A normally victim of the sword is Monaco. I saw a bit of it Sunday, but only because of the long red flag period.
It doesn't bother me to any extent, although I would prefer a decent race to watch on record.
Roman Moroni said:
I liked Jenson Buttons' idea how to resolve this. Ie under the red flag the teams can replace the tyres like for like just in case they'd picked up debris that could cause punctures. Then once the race restarts, the cars have to come in during the race for at least one tyre change as per the normal rules.
That’s the F2 rule. F1 says “you must use two compounds of tyre during the race”
F2 says “you must make a pit stop during the race”
HardtopManual said:
Exactly, the current wheelbase is a foot longer than that of a LWB VW Transporter.
The only new car (as opposed to a commercial vehicle) I can find with a longer wheelbase, is a Rolls Phantom LWB, at 3,772mm. The standard wheelbase Phantom just doesn’t quite cut it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Phanto...Today’s F1 car is two feet longer than an S-Class, more than a foot longer than the LWB Maybach version of the same, and only a little shorter than the Rolls.
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