Jamie Chadwick - First competitive female driver in F1?

[ThingsBehindTheSun]

RacerMike said:

Had parents provided some assistance to her early career, but speaking with her at LeMans in 2019 she had taken the decision to not self fund in any way, as doing so sets a precedent and marks you out as a pay driver. This completely changes how teams perceive you, and it’s not a perception she wanted.

I wonder how many male drivers with the exact same talent and results as miss Chadwick are lucky enough to attract enough sponsorship to race without self funding?

I am going to guess precisely zero?

[Mark-C]

ThingsBehindTheSun said:

RacerMike said:

Had parents provided some assistance to her early career, but speaking with her at LeMans in 2019 she had taken the decision to not self fund in any way, as doing so sets a precedent and marks you out as a pay driver. This completely changes how teams perceive you, and it’s not a perception she wanted.

I wonder how many male drivers with the exact same talent and results as miss Chadwick are lucky enough to attract enough sponsorship to race without self funding?

I am going to guess precisely zero?

So what?

[ThingsBehindTheSun]

Mark-C said:

So what?

We have a 91 page thread discussing a female driver getting into F1 when she hasn't even got enough points for a super licence. There are hundreds of male drivers on a par who are also nowhere near good enough, but nobody gives any of those drivers a second thought.

Race in Formula three and do well, if you cannot even do that then you have no hope of an F1 drive.

[Mark-C]

ThingsBehindTheSun said:

Mark-C said:

So what?

We have a 91 page thread discussing a female driver getting into F1 when she hasn't even got enough points for a super licence. There are hundreds of male drivers on a par who are also nowhere near good enough, but nobody gives any of those drivers a second thought.

Race in Formula three and do well, if you cannot even do that then you have no hope of an F1 drive.

This thread has long stopped being about whether Jamie will get into Formula One ... nobody here (or anywhere else) thinks that is going to happen or should happen.

She's been good at publicity\getting sponsorship and got herself a potential route into Indy.

[Koln-RS]

Mark-C said:

This thread has long stopped being about whether Jamie will get into Formula One ... nobody here (or anywhere else) thinks that is going to happen or should happen.

She's been good at publicity\getting sponsorship and got herself a potential route into Indy.

Tend to agree. Whenever I’ve dipped into this thread it’s been all around the houses, regularly off-topic, diverting into numerous side issues.

F1 may be a diminishing hope, but she has nevertheless achieved an impressive and diverse CV for any driver.
I’m sure Indy Next isn’t a walk in the park.

[RacerMike]

ThingsBehindTheSun said:

RacerMike said:

Had parents provided some assistance to her early career, but speaking with her at LeMans in 2019 she had taken the decision to not self fund in any way, as doing so sets a precedent and marks you out as a pay driver. This completely changes how teams perceive you, and it’s not a perception she wanted.

I wonder how many male drivers with the exact same talent and results as miss Chadwick are lucky enough to attract enough sponsorship to race without self funding?

I am going to guess precisely zero?

My teammate and I were 2. Fully funded by a local engineering firm owner through 2 seasons of Caterham and a season of British GT4 and a round of Euro GT4.

A mate of mine was another. Did a season of T Cars in the 2000s then got a scholarship to do Carrera Cup in Asia. Won that and got poached by a guy to do British GT in a 996 GT3, won that then went to race in America as the Pro to an Am pairing in ALMS, did LeMans three times, twice in GT2 and once in LMP1. Continued for a few more years in British GT and is now retired from racing.

All of us were very lucky and for every one of us there’s hundreds who aren’t in the right place at the right time. 50% was luck, 10% probably money (in my case) and 40% talent

Edited by RacerMike on Tuesday 18th June 14:25

[Muzzer79]

ThingsBehindTheSun said:

Race in Formula three and do well, if you cannot even do that then you have no hope of an F1 drive.

But the reality of motorsport, female or male, is that this isn't the case.

Guanyu Zhou was in F3 for 3 years. In his first two years, he scored 7 podiums and only in his third year did he get a couple of wins. His best championship result was 8th.

He then went to F2 and was similarly mediocre.

Now, Zhou is not the next Ayrton Senna but he demonstrates the reality of modern motorsport in that results are not the most important thing. This is not singular to women as a minority.

[KaraK]

Muzzer79 said:

ThingsBehindTheSun said:

Race in Formula three and do well, if you cannot even do that then you have no hope of an F1 drive.

But the reality of motorsport, female or male, is that this isn't the case.

Guanyu Zhou was in F3 for 3 years. In his first two years, he scored 7 podiums and only in his third year did he get a couple of wins. His best championship result was 8th.

He then went to F2 and was similarly mediocre.

Now, Zhou is not the next Ayrton Senna but he demonstrates the reality of modern motorsport in that results are not the most important thing. This is not singular to women as a minority.

This prompted me to take a look at Zhou's junior category record - bizarrely I actually have to admit that I now look on his F1-tenure to date more favourably as a result. For someone whose junior career would be generously described as anonymous he's not disgraced himself, I think if he stays on the grid next year it will be more to do with his commercial value as a Chinese person then as a driver but at least he's not obviously out of his depth in the way that, say, Logan Sargent is (or indeed Latifi before him).

[RacerMike]

KaraK said:

Muzzer79 said:

ThingsBehindTheSun said:

Race in Formula three and do well, if you cannot even do that then you have no hope of an F1 drive.

But the reality of motorsport, female or male, is that this isn't the case.

Guanyu Zhou was in F3 for 3 years. In his first two years, he scored 7 podiums and only in his third year did he get a couple of wins. His best championship result was 8th.

He then went to F2 and was similarly mediocre.

Now, Zhou is not the next Ayrton Senna but he demonstrates the reality of modern motorsport in that results are not the most important thing. This is not singular to women as a minority.

This prompted me to take a look at Zhou's junior category record - bizarrely I actually have to admit that I now look on his F1-tenure to date more favourably as a result. For someone whose junior career would be generously described as anonymous he's not disgraced himself, I think if he stays on the grid next year it will be more to do with his commercial value as a Chinese person then as a driver but at least he's not obviously out of his depth in the way that, say, Logan Sargent is (or indeed Latifi before him).

And I think it also highlights that whilst F1 is definitely competitive, it’s not actually the 20 best drivers in the world as DTS and the general media would have us believe. Hence I think Jamie would actually be easily competitive enough in F1 to do well in a decent car.

[CT05 Nose Cone]

RacerMike said:

KaraK said:

Muzzer79 said:

ThingsBehindTheSun said:

Race in Formula three and do well, if you cannot even do that then you have no hope of an F1 drive.

But the reality of motorsport, female or male, is that this isn't the case.

Guanyu Zhou was in F3 for 3 years. In his first two years, he scored 7 podiums and only in his third year did he get a couple of wins. His best championship result was 8th.

He then went to F2 and was similarly mediocre.

Now, Zhou is not the next Ayrton Senna but he demonstrates the reality of modern motorsport in that results are not the most important thing. This is not singular to women as a minority.

This prompted me to take a look at Zhou's junior category record - bizarrely I actually have to admit that I now look on his F1-tenure to date more favourably as a result. For someone whose junior career would be generously described as anonymous he's not disgraced himself, I think if he stays on the grid next year it will be more to do with his commercial value as a Chinese person then as a driver but at least he's not obviously out of his depth in the way that, say, Logan Sargent is (or indeed Latifi before him).

And I think it also highlights that whilst F1 is definitely competitive, it’s not actually the 20 best drivers in the world as DTS and the general media would have us believe. Hence I think Jamie would actually be easily competitive enough in F1 to do well in a decent car.

If she or any other woman was competitive enough to be in F1, they'd already be there. No team would turn down the PR gold mine she would bring.

[ThingsBehindTheSun]

CT05 Nose Cone said:

If she or any other woman was competitive enough to be in F1, they'd already be there. No team would turn down the PR gold mine she would bring.

Exactly, why do people seem to keep ignoring the fact that she doesn't have the required 40 points for a super licence.

As crap as Sargeant, Stroll, Mazapin and Latiffi are they all managed to get 40+ points in other series.

Staying in Formula W for three years collecting the prize money did her no favours at all.

[KaraK]

RacerMike said:

KaraK said:

Muzzer79 said:

ThingsBehindTheSun said:

Race in Formula three and do well, if you cannot even do that then you have no hope of an F1 drive.

But the reality of motorsport, female or male, is that this isn't the case.

Guanyu Zhou was in F3 for 3 years. In his first two years, he scored 7 podiums and only in his third year did he get a couple of wins. His best championship result was 8th.

He then went to F2 and was similarly mediocre.

Now, Zhou is not the next Ayrton Senna but he demonstrates the reality of modern motorsport in that results are not the most important thing. This is not singular to women as a minority.

This prompted me to take a look at Zhou's junior category record - bizarrely I actually have to admit that I now look on his F1-tenure to date more favourably as a result. For someone whose junior career would be generously described as anonymous he's not disgraced himself, I think if he stays on the grid next year it will be more to do with his commercial value as a Chinese person then as a driver but at least he's not obviously out of his depth in the way that, say, Logan Sargent is (or indeed Latifi before him).

And I think it also highlights that whilst F1 is definitely competitive, it’s not actually the 20 best drivers in the world as DTS and the general media would have us believe. Hence I think Jamie would actually be easily competitive enough in F1 to do well in a decent car.

Yes the oft repeated "20 best drivers in the world" has (essentially) been marketing for at least as long as I've been watching F1 and I don't know any fan who takes it at face value. I've always considered it better to state "20 of the best drivers in the world" because that's by and large true. As imperfect as it is the current super licence system at least ensures you're going to need to be a very good racing driver to get in, and even "bad" F1 drivers of recent years like Mazepin aren't truly awful - I mean when was the last time someone failed to qualify on pace alone?

There's probably a hundred or more active drivers who are capable of driving an F1 car to a respectable level but there's only 20 seats and once a driver has the necessary super licence the teams can pick whoever they want, for whatever reason they want and that's not always going be pure talent; team dynamic, and money (be it sponsorship, merch sales, whatever) being two reasons come to mind easily.

While I don't think there's a viable pathway for Jamie in to F1 at this point - the super licence points she had from W-series are expiring and the comparatively lower points available on the American ladder is going to make it extremely difficult to replace them. I don't think that were she to find herself driving an F1 car in a real session that there's any reason to think she either dangerously or embarrassingly off the pace. I think with the right effort and perseverance she could carve quite a decent Indy career out for herself.

[732NM]

ThingsBehindTheSun said:

Exactly, why do people seem to keep ignoring the fact that she doesn't have the required 40 points for a super licence.

As crap as Sargeant, Stroll, Mazapin and Latiffi are they all managed to get 40+ points in other series.

Staying in Formula W for three years collecting the prize money did her no favours at all.

It bought her a house.

[asfault]

KaraK said:

Muzzer79 said:

ThingsBehindTheSun said:

Race in Formula three and do well, if you cannot even do that then you have no hope of an F1 drive.

But the reality of motorsport, female or male, is that this isn't the case.

Guanyu Zhou was in F3 for 3 years. In his first two years, he scored 7 podiums and only in his third year did he get a couple of wins. His best championship result was 8th.

He then went to F2 and was similarly mediocre.

Now, Zhou is not the next Ayrton Senna but he demonstrates the reality of modern motorsport in that results are not the most important thing. This is not singular to women as a minority.

This prompted me to take a look at Zhou's junior category record - bizarrely I actually have to admit that I now look on his F1-tenure to date more favourably as a result. For someone whose junior career would be generously described as anonymous he's not disgraced himself, I think if he stays on the grid next year it will be more to do with his commercial value as a Chinese person then as a driver but at least he's not obviously out of his depth in the way that, say, Logan Sargent is (or indeed Latifi before him).

Commercial value as a Chinese drier isi why he got to f1 in the first place from a mediocre jnr career.

[skwdenyer]

732NM said:

ThingsBehindTheSun said:

Exactly, why do people seem to keep ignoring the fact that she doesn't have the required 40 points for a super licence.

As crap as Sargeant, Stroll, Mazapin and Latiffi are they all managed to get 40+ points in other series.

Staying in Formula W for three years collecting the prize money did her no favours at all.

It bought her a house.

People keep mentioning this, as if it is a sign of weakness that she wouldn’t take all that money and throw it back into her career, as opposed to any other job wherein actually earning money is sort of the point!

[Sandpit Steve]

skwdenyer said:

People keep mentioning this, as if it is a sign of weakness that she wouldn’t take all that money and throw it back into her career, as opposed to any other job wherein actually earning money is sort of the point!

It’s no coincidence that the new F1 Academy will be giving the winner a funded seat in Euro F3 next season, rather than simply a cheque.

[Adrian W]

732NM said:

ThingsBehindTheSun said:

Exactly, why do people seem to keep ignoring the fact that she doesn't have the required 40 points for a super licence.

As crap as Sargeant, Stroll, Mazapin and Latiffi are they all managed to get 40+ points in other series.

Staying in Formula W for three years collecting the prize money did her no favours at all.

It bought her a house.

I thought it went bust and never actually paid out the prize money, and stiffed suppliers

[GlobalRacer]

skwdenyer said:

People keep mentioning this, as if it is a sign of weakness that she wouldn’t take all that money and throw it back into her career, as opposed to any other job wherein actually earning money is sort of the point!

Think of it this way. If you were starting a new business and were to go to a meeting of potential investors and then tell them that you want them to back you but you've spent all the money you had on house what do you think the investors would think? I know all the ones I've dealt with would say "Why should I put money behind you when you're not confident enough to put your own money in?"

I guess it boils down to whether you think a driver is an employee looking for a job or a business that is promoting themselves to get contracts from other businesses.

My personal opinion is the latter but no idea if that is how most drivers see themselves or not

[Leithen]

Odd that there doesn’t seem to have been much if any commentary on the accommodation/investment choices made by male drivers who have won championships.

They are probably all living in rented flats, sleeping on the floor.

Or perhaps not and the subject is a complete load of bks.

[732NM]

Adrian W said:

I thought it went bust and never actually paid out the prize money, and stiffed suppliers

She had two full year payouts worth $1 million, the third year is part of the claims against none payment.