Jamie Chadwick - First competitive female driver in F1?
Discussion
asfault said:
I always think if people are truely not racist or sexist or see the difference then someone like Lewis winning for the first time or Jamie doesnt mention the thing they are different to the majority of the field. Kinda like now no one mentions when a woman astronought goes into space because its just "another person".
Did Lewis' first win in a junior category get national media attention? I bet it didn't. Not like Pulling's who had a BBC article wrote about her...https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/articles/cw0vvdkrpllo
The issue is what makes her different is being a woman, which in her entire lifetime has been an advantage in life. Being a privileged rich child brings with it extra opportunities, being a privileged female rich offspring brings with it even greater advantages in life. Career result wise she is little different to the masses of unknown drivers that have achieved very little in the junior categories, one of the thousands of drivers that have come and gone. Yet even the Russian oligarch's sons have to achieve a great deal more to get even a fraction of headlines. Ollie Chadwick only wishes he got as much attention, as does the non-existent Benjamin Pulling.
As opposed to the slightly higher than working class upbringing Hamilton had. Hamilton is a driver who's talent overcome a lack of wealth. Chadwick is a driver who's wealth & privilege overcome a lack of talent. They are not the same. Hamilton overcome his lack of wealth privilege by being talented on track, Chadwick overcome her lack of talent on track by using her wealth privilege & gender preferential treatment to get undeserved leg ups.
There is no denying the advantages wealth brings. If the likes of Max Verstappen, Mick Schumacher, Nicholas Latifi, Nikita Mazepin etc has had the same opportunities as Esteban Ocon they would never have made it close to F1. These are drivers that have fairly decent junior results that far eclipse those of any recent female driver.
Edited by Peacockantony on Friday 14th June 01:46
I think it’s clear you know pretty much nothing about Jamie or her family and have made a whole host of sweeping assumptions. Many about Lewis as well.
Lewis was not ‘just about working class’. His dad was an IT consultant and worked extra jobs to afford the best of everything for Lewis. He hedged his bets on his son making it, but they were spending well up there with the top spenders in Super1 back in the 90s. They were categorically not hard done by financially! Also…there was loads written about Lewis. I remember reading stuff in auto sport about him back in 98/99 when he was 13/14. He was hugely well supported as a minority from early on.as he should have been.
Jamies parents are wealthy. It helped give her a leg up for sure, but beyond her British GT career she chose to stop paying for drives. Everything she’s done since has been funded through sponsorship. Source: her words in person.
Lewis was not ‘just about working class’. His dad was an IT consultant and worked extra jobs to afford the best of everything for Lewis. He hedged his bets on his son making it, but they were spending well up there with the top spenders in Super1 back in the 90s. They were categorically not hard done by financially! Also…there was loads written about Lewis. I remember reading stuff in auto sport about him back in 98/99 when he was 13/14. He was hugely well supported as a minority from early on.as he should have been.
Jamies parents are wealthy. It helped give her a leg up for sure, but beyond her British GT career she chose to stop paying for drives. Everything she’s done since has been funded through sponsorship. Source: her words in person.
RacerMike said:
Away from topic slightly, but I’m interested what she’s done to you to elicit quite so much hatred? She’s a nice person and she’s done/doing well enough to get attention for being a minority in a sport dominated by men.
If you’re going to get upset about her making progress, why not get upset about probably 75% of all ‘talent’ that makes it into professional motorsport? I was faster than Jamie in British GT, but my sponsorship ended up falling through. I’m not bitter about her doing well. Quite the opposite.
I wasn’t marketable and I was ‘old’ compared to her and her teammate Ross Gunn who was a real challenge for me to beat and who is in the highest placed Aston GT3 LM this weekend in LeMans. But there are loads of guys out there I could beat who are still racing GT cars now. Jamie is considerably better than many of them and it’s great to see a nice, down to earth person who does have some talent and plenty of appeal push things forward a bit for women in motorsport. Why does her success or otherwise occupy so much space in your brain?
What hatred? Not kissing the arse of a privileged rich brat is not hatred! People have said a lot worse about Sargeant in the last 6 months, and have said worse about other drivers who are a lot more capable as drivers. If you’re going to get upset about her making progress, why not get upset about probably 75% of all ‘talent’ that makes it into professional motorsport? I was faster than Jamie in British GT, but my sponsorship ended up falling through. I’m not bitter about her doing well. Quite the opposite.
I wasn’t marketable and I was ‘old’ compared to her and her teammate Ross Gunn who was a real challenge for me to beat and who is in the highest placed Aston GT3 LM this weekend in LeMans. But there are loads of guys out there I could beat who are still racing GT cars now. Jamie is considerably better than many of them and it’s great to see a nice, down to earth person who does have some talent and plenty of appeal push things forward a bit for women in motorsport. Why does her success or otherwise occupy so much space in your brain?
Edited by RacerMike on Friday 14th June 01:41
Motorsport is dominated by wealth, and she is one of the most privileged in this regard. He being a woman is of no relevance. Change 'female' to 'male' on her racing record and not a single person would be defending her. The minor class achievements in sportscar racing would not be used to claim she deserved mid-to-top level single seater opportunities with her poor results.
Her lack of success occupies about as much of my mind as Deagen Fairclough's does. Which is far greater than many of the participant's of this thread do considering the level of delusion contained within it.
Peacockantony said:
RacerMike said:
Away from topic slightly, but I’m interested what she’s done to you to elicit quite so much hatred? She’s a nice person and she’s done/doing well enough to get attention for being a minority in a sport dominated by men.
If you’re going to get upset about her making progress, why not get upset about probably 75% of all ‘talent’ that makes it into professional motorsport? I was faster than Jamie in British GT, but my sponsorship ended up falling through. I’m not bitter about her doing well. Quite the opposite.
I wasn’t marketable and I was ‘old’ compared to her and her teammate Ross Gunn who was a real challenge for me to beat and who is in the highest placed Aston GT3 LM this weekend in LeMans. But there are loads of guys out there I could beat who are still racing GT cars now. Jamie is considerably better than many of them and it’s great to see a nice, down to earth person who does have some talent and plenty of appeal push things forward a bit for women in motorsport. Why does her success or otherwise occupy so much space in your brain?
What hatred? Not kissing the arse of a privileged rich brat is not hatred! People have said a lot worse about Sargeant in the last 6 months, and have said worse about other drivers who are a lot more capable as drivers. If you’re going to get upset about her making progress, why not get upset about probably 75% of all ‘talent’ that makes it into professional motorsport? I was faster than Jamie in British GT, but my sponsorship ended up falling through. I’m not bitter about her doing well. Quite the opposite.
I wasn’t marketable and I was ‘old’ compared to her and her teammate Ross Gunn who was a real challenge for me to beat and who is in the highest placed Aston GT3 LM this weekend in LeMans. But there are loads of guys out there I could beat who are still racing GT cars now. Jamie is considerably better than many of them and it’s great to see a nice, down to earth person who does have some talent and plenty of appeal push things forward a bit for women in motorsport. Why does her success or otherwise occupy so much space in your brain?
Edited by RacerMike on Friday 14th June 01:41
Motorsport is dominated by wealth, and she is one of the most privileged in this regard. He being a woman is of no relevance. Change 'female' to 'male' on her racing record and not a single person would be defending her. The minor class achievements in sportscar racing would not be used to claim she deserved mid-to-top level single seater opportunities with her poor results.
Her lack of success occupies about as much of my mind as Deagen Fairclough's does. Which is far greater than many of the participant's of this thread do considering the level of delusion contained within it.
I’m afraid I find the motivation behind your posts hard to believe given that you’ve posted seriously negative comments on other threads about female drivers.
Who hurt you man? Did your Mum tell you, you could be an F1 driver or something?
RacerMike said:
I think it’s clear you know pretty much nothing about Jamie or her family and have made a whole host of sweeping assumptions. Many about Lewis as well.
Lewis was not ‘just about working class’. His dad was an IT consultant and worked extra jobs to afford the best of everything for Lewis. He hedged his bets on his son making it, but they were spending well up there with the top spenders in Super1 back in the 90s. They were categorically not hard done by financially! Also…there was loads written about Lewis. I remember reading stuff in auto sport about him back in 98/99 when he was 13/14. He was hugely well supported as a minority from early on.as he should have been.
Jamies parents are wealthy. It helped give her a leg up for sure, but beyond her British GT career she chose to stop paying for drives. Everything she’s done since has been funded through sponsorship. Source: her words in person.
Hence the higher than working class comment. He neither had a poor upbringing nor a rich one, but in contrast to the Chadwick siblings he was poor. Anthony worked damned hard to provide for Lewis. Anthony's money helped Lewis but it was his results that made him stand out. His father worked to provide him the tools to show his talent, the Chadwick's used their parent's wealth to better their results beyond their talent.Lewis was not ‘just about working class’. His dad was an IT consultant and worked extra jobs to afford the best of everything for Lewis. He hedged his bets on his son making it, but they were spending well up there with the top spenders in Super1 back in the 90s. They were categorically not hard done by financially! Also…there was loads written about Lewis. I remember reading stuff in auto sport about him back in 98/99 when he was 13/14. He was hugely well supported as a minority from early on.as he should have been.
Jamies parents are wealthy. It helped give her a leg up for sure, but beyond her British GT career she chose to stop paying for drives. Everything she’s done since has been funded through sponsorship. Source: her words in person.
Lewis was provided as an example of someone facing adversity but this is a misrepresentation of the truth. By comparison extremely privileged Jamie & Ollie Chadwick had it very easy compared to Lewis by virtue of being from a very wealthy family. They had the privileges extreme wealth provided and benefitted greatly from it. Jamie in particular has lived in a time of life where being a woman brings extensive extra privileges on top so can't blame that for her lack of progression and results. Ollie retired from racing years ago despite similar results. He would not have received a fully funded (paid for by unapid bills) drives in the likes of W Series or drives in FREC & IndyNXT with her results and unwillingness to pay.
"Source: her words in person." Her words are meaningless. She claimed she couldn't afford seats in F3 despite $1m of over W Series prize funds whilst being privileged as f
k thanks to mummy & daddy, having the financial backing of Williams as part of the junior driver programme, and having big name sponsors. She could easily afford opportunities, just not the opportunities her entitled attitude wanted. Such as top drives in FREC & IndyNXT despite being a backmarker driver, as she proved in both. She got those drivers because of being female and in both showed her talent didn't warrant such opportunities, despite the backing of top level teams she still was mid field at best whilst her team mates were at the sharp end.If Lewis Hamiotn has finished the 2007 season in 19th position, he would not have been the 7 time world champion we know today. Talent rises to the top. Pay drivers quickly get shown up, unless they're female in which case there will be an army arguing black is blue...
RacerMike said:
Spoiled brat? She couldn’t be less of one (see above).
I’m afraid I find the motivation behind your posts hard to believe given that you’ve posted seriously negative comments on other threads about female drivers.
Who hurt you man? Did your Mum tell you, you could be an F1 driver or something?
Yes, spoiled brat. Her own comments about the levels of drives she would accept are not hard to find. For someone who has not performed close to the level of the better drivers of F3 she has been rather outspoken about only accepting drives from the top teams of F3 despite not being even remotely close to the mediocre drivers in F3. That is the behaviour of a spoiled brat, just as Stroll's inability to accept his poor performances are.I’m afraid I find the motivation behind your posts hard to believe given that you’ve posted seriously negative comments on other threads about female drivers.
Who hurt you man? Did your Mum tell you, you could be an F1 driver or something?
She has a drive in a top team in IndyNXT that was not justified by her prior poor results and her 2023 season resulted in her finishing virtually last, only those who did fewer races were below her.
You’ve never met her, you judge her more harshly than any male driver and spend the majority of your time on PistonHeads commenting only on posts about W Series, Jamie Chadwick, Female Racing drivers and Naomi Schiff. I suggest, for the sake of the women in your life, you go away and have a long hard think about your attitude towards them.
Of all the racing drivers I’ve met and raced against, Jamie is one of the least spoilt, most humble and friendliest. She deserves every success and deserves a drive more than a huge percentage of males drivers racing in plenty of high level motorsport. Turn your energies to them if you’re in need of spearheading a one man crusade against the wealthy in motorsport and take a break from PH for a while.
Of all the racing drivers I’ve met and raced against, Jamie is one of the least spoilt, most humble and friendliest. She deserves every success and deserves a drive more than a huge percentage of males drivers racing in plenty of high level motorsport. Turn your energies to them if you’re in need of spearheading a one man crusade against the wealthy in motorsport and take a break from PH for a while.
RacerMike said:
You’ve never met her, you judge her more harshly than any male driver and spend the majority of your time on PistonHeads commenting only on posts about W Series, Jamie Chadwick, Female Racing drivers and Naomi Schiff. I suggest, for the sake of the women in your life, you go away and have a long hard think about your attitude towards them.
Of all the racing drivers I’ve met and raced against, Jamie is one of the least spoilt, most humble and friendliest. She deserves every success and deserves a drive more than a huge percentage of males drivers racing in plenty of high level motorsport. Turn your energies to them if you’re in need of spearheading a one man crusade against the wealthy in motorsport and take a break from PH for a while.
Spot on! What he said.Of all the racing drivers I’ve met and raced against, Jamie is one of the least spoilt, most humble and friendliest. She deserves every success and deserves a drive more than a huge percentage of males drivers racing in plenty of high level motorsport. Turn your energies to them if you’re in need of spearheading a one man crusade against the wealthy in motorsport and take a break from PH for a while.
For the most part I think most people's gripe with what's going on at the moment is many women being pushed into the limelight for not really achieving very much. I'm generalising here, not talking about Jamie.
It just feels very much like positive discrimination. I am quite convinced that if I was female i would have a 5 page spread in autosport about my club racing achievements and could get some sponsorship off the back of it, maybe progression to something else or at least continue club racing with sponsors picking up the tab.
I'm seeing it all the time, females in Motorsport are getting handouts left right and centre for taking part or doing OK.
Abbie Eaton for example, before she became a household name as far as I can tell hadn't actually won an awful lot, and raced in various championships due to being privileged enough to do so... Now she is widely seen as a professional racing driver and I can tell you now there are many drivers in most club paddocks that I would put money on being more or just as talented as her. This isn't an attack on her either, it's just the truth. If she was a bloke would she have got the opportunities and airtime she's had? I sincerely doubt it.
I don't have a major chip on my shoulder about it, but I can see it happening and can understand the frustration. Personally racing is just a hobby.
It just feels very much like positive discrimination. I am quite convinced that if I was female i would have a 5 page spread in autosport about my club racing achievements and could get some sponsorship off the back of it, maybe progression to something else or at least continue club racing with sponsors picking up the tab.
I'm seeing it all the time, females in Motorsport are getting handouts left right and centre for taking part or doing OK.
Abbie Eaton for example, before she became a household name as far as I can tell hadn't actually won an awful lot, and raced in various championships due to being privileged enough to do so... Now she is widely seen as a professional racing driver and I can tell you now there are many drivers in most club paddocks that I would put money on being more or just as talented as her. This isn't an attack on her either, it's just the truth. If she was a bloke would she have got the opportunities and airtime she's had? I sincerely doubt it.
I don't have a major chip on my shoulder about it, but I can see it happening and can understand the frustration. Personally racing is just a hobby.
Edited by Yazza54 on Friday 14th June 08:05
I also understand that a lot of it is about inspiring the next generation and so on, it just feels a bit lopsided.
There's a bit of an agenda that boys only get opportunities in Motorsport but the simple fact is there's more men in Motorsport because most girls aren't as into it. There's nothing wrong with that.
I wholeheartedly believe if a female driver with the talent of max, Lando or whoever else hit the scene they would get the opportunities they deserve, in fact these days there's more chance of them making it than just another lad.
Back to the original topic I'm very pleased to see Jamie get a win in indy nxt. I'm not sure it's enough to really proclaim her as the next big thing but it's a great step in the right direction and she needs to keep doing it now. She doesn't need to go to F1 to make a good living in Motorsport, so I'm sure she can stay in the states and have a good career out of it.
There's a bit of an agenda that boys only get opportunities in Motorsport but the simple fact is there's more men in Motorsport because most girls aren't as into it. There's nothing wrong with that.
I wholeheartedly believe if a female driver with the talent of max, Lando or whoever else hit the scene they would get the opportunities they deserve, in fact these days there's more chance of them making it than just another lad.
Back to the original topic I'm very pleased to see Jamie get a win in indy nxt. I'm not sure it's enough to really proclaim her as the next big thing but it's a great step in the right direction and she needs to keep doing it now. She doesn't need to go to F1 to make a good living in Motorsport, so I'm sure she can stay in the states and have a good career out of it.
Edited by Yazza54 on Friday 14th June 08:07
RacerMike said:
You’ve never met her, you judge her more harshly than any male driver and spend the majority of your time on PistonHeads commenting only on posts about W Series, Jamie Chadwick, Female Racing drivers and Naomi Schiff. I suggest, for the sake of the women in your life, you go away and have a long hard think about your attitude towards them.
Of all the racing drivers I’ve met and raced against, Jamie is one of the least spoilt, most humble and friendliest. She deserves every success and deserves a drive more than a huge percentage of males drivers racing in plenty of high level motorsport. Turn your energies to them if you’re in need of spearheading a one man crusade against the wealthy in motorsport and take a break from PH for a while.
I totally agree qwith you. His posts are littered with bitterness and dare I say it, misogyny. There is absolutely no need for that level of bile and hatred, to be honest, it is more than a bit concerning.Of all the racing drivers I’ve met and raced against, Jamie is one of the least spoilt, most humble and friendliest. She deserves every success and deserves a drive more than a huge percentage of males drivers racing in plenty of high level motorsport. Turn your energies to them if you’re in need of spearheading a one man crusade against the wealthy in motorsport and take a break from PH for a while.
Ah, so Sid The Sexist troll turned up again, no surprises there. That account posts nothing except negative comment regarding women in motorsport, perhaps he lost a race to a girl in karts 30 years ago and has held a massive grudge ever since?
Meanwhile, Jamie won her race last weekend, having qualified on pole and led every lap, has really improved this season over last, and probably has a chance of making Indycar next year. There’s also a number of women, including the all-female Iron Dames lineup, at Le Mans this weekend. Best of luck to all of them!
Meanwhile, Jamie won her race last weekend, having qualified on pole and led every lap, has really improved this season over last, and probably has a chance of making Indycar next year. There’s also a number of women, including the all-female Iron Dames lineup, at Le Mans this weekend. Best of luck to all of them!
Yazza54 said:
For the most part I think most people's gripe with what's going on at the moment is many women being pushed into the limelight for not really achieving very much. I'm generalising here, not talking about Jamie.
It just feels very much like positive discrimination. I am quite convinced that if I was female i would have a 5 page spread in autosport about my club racing achievements and could get some sponsorship off the back of it, maybe progression to something else or at least continue club racing with sponsors picking up the tab.
I'm seeing it all the time, females in Motorsport are getting handouts left right and centre for taking part or doing OK.
Abbie Eaton for example, before she became a household name as far as I can tell hadn't actually won an awful lot, and raced in various championships due to being privileged enough to do so... Now she is widely seen as a professional racing driver and I can tell you now there are many drivers in most club paddocks that I would put money on being more or just as talented as her. This isn't an attack on her either, it's just the truth. If she was a bloke would she have got the opportunities and airtime she's had? I sincerely doubt it.
I don't have a major chip on my shoulder about it, but I can see it happening and can understand the frustration. Personally racing is just a hobby.
Positive discrimination - at the relevant point in the curve - is precisely how we've managed to achieve greater levels of equality in this country. People need pathfinder role models to incentivise them to get involved and not believe they can't possibly achieve anything. The trick is to figure out at what stage positive discrimination needs to end.It just feels very much like positive discrimination. I am quite convinced that if I was female i would have a 5 page spread in autosport about my club racing achievements and could get some sponsorship off the back of it, maybe progression to something else or at least continue club racing with sponsors picking up the tab.
I'm seeing it all the time, females in Motorsport are getting handouts left right and centre for taking part or doing OK.
Abbie Eaton for example, before she became a household name as far as I can tell hadn't actually won an awful lot, and raced in various championships due to being privileged enough to do so... Now she is widely seen as a professional racing driver and I can tell you now there are many drivers in most club paddocks that I would put money on being more or just as talented as her. This isn't an attack on her either, it's just the truth. If she was a bloke would she have got the opportunities and airtime she's had? I sincerely doubt it.
I don't have a major chip on my shoulder about it, but I can see it happening and can understand the frustration. Personally racing is just a hobby.
Edited by Yazza54 on Friday 14th June 08:05
Hence we have specific programmes to encourage, for instance, women in STEM subjects, ethnic minorities in all sorts of areas, and - further back - we introduced anti-discrimination legislation on pay (which was widely considered by men in "equivalent" role as positive discrimination).
It isn't clear to me why there's so much opprobrium about there being similar initiatives in the primarily male-dominated world of motorsport. Nobody is holding men back; if they're better, they win. Women aren't getting, say, a head start, or seeing their male competitors being handicapped. W series doesn't guarantee an F1 drive. All we're talking about is people getting media attention and some encouragement on the basis of being a minority doing well.
If we want to talk about inequality, just look at F1 (now and, frankly, for most of history). It is a sport of rich men or their sons more often than it is a meritocracy. Those without family money must usually bring sponsorship with them. If Lewis hadn't been sponsor-friendly, he wouldn't have had the leg-up he got.
I'd love for motorsport to be a meritocracy. It isn't and, broadly, it never has been. The primary problem here seems to be that women have an "unfair" advantage by being unusual and getting "unfair" levels of attention. W series will keep going for so long as those paying for it feel they're getting value for their money. That's the motorsport business.
skwdenyer said:
Yazza54 said:
For the most part I think most people's gripe with what's going on at the moment is many women being pushed into the limelight for not really achieving very much. I'm generalising here, not talking about Jamie.
It just feels very much like positive discrimination. I am quite convinced that if I was female i would have a 5 page spread in autosport about my club racing achievements and could get some sponsorship off the back of it, maybe progression to something else or at least continue club racing with sponsors picking up the tab.
I'm seeing it all the time, females in Motorsport are getting handouts left right and centre for taking part or doing OK.
Abbie Eaton for example, before she became a household name as far as I can tell hadn't actually won an awful lot, and raced in various championships due to being privileged enough to do so... Now she is widely seen as a professional racing driver and I can tell you now there are many drivers in most club paddocks that I would put money on being more or just as talented as her. This isn't an attack on her either, it's just the truth. If she was a bloke would she have got the opportunities and airtime she's had? I sincerely doubt it.
I don't have a major chip on my shoulder about it, but I can see it happening and can understand the frustration. Personally racing is just a hobby.
Positive discrimination - at the relevant point in the curve - is precisely how we've managed to achieve greater levels of equality in this country. People need pathfinder role models to incentivise them to get involved and not believe they can't possibly achieve anything. The trick is to figure out at what stage positive discrimination needs to end.It just feels very much like positive discrimination. I am quite convinced that if I was female i would have a 5 page spread in autosport about my club racing achievements and could get some sponsorship off the back of it, maybe progression to something else or at least continue club racing with sponsors picking up the tab.
I'm seeing it all the time, females in Motorsport are getting handouts left right and centre for taking part or doing OK.
Abbie Eaton for example, before she became a household name as far as I can tell hadn't actually won an awful lot, and raced in various championships due to being privileged enough to do so... Now she is widely seen as a professional racing driver and I can tell you now there are many drivers in most club paddocks that I would put money on being more or just as talented as her. This isn't an attack on her either, it's just the truth. If she was a bloke would she have got the opportunities and airtime she's had? I sincerely doubt it.
I don't have a major chip on my shoulder about it, but I can see it happening and can understand the frustration. Personally racing is just a hobby.
Edited by Yazza54 on Friday 14th June 08:05
Hence we have specific programmes to encourage, for instance, women in STEM subjects, ethnic minorities in all sorts of areas, and - further back - we introduced anti-discrimination legislation on pay (which was widely considered by men in "equivalent" role as positive discrimination).
It isn't clear to me why there's so much opprobrium about there being similar initiatives in the primarily male-dominated world of motorsport. Nobody is holding men back; if they're better, they win. Women aren't getting, say, a head start, or seeing their male competitors being handicapped. W series doesn't guarantee an F1 drive. All we're talking about is people getting media attention and some encouragement on the basis of being a minority doing well.
If we want to talk about inequality, just look at F1 (now and, frankly, for most of history). It is a sport of rich men or their sons more often than it is a meritocracy. Those without family money must usually bring sponsorship with them. If Lewis hadn't been sponsor-friendly, he wouldn't have had the leg-up he got.
I'd love for motorsport to be a meritocracy. It isn't and, broadly, it never has been. The primary problem here seems to be that women have an "unfair" advantage by being unusual and getting "unfair" levels of attention. W series will keep going for so long as those paying for it feel they're getting value for their money. That's the motorsport business.
My issue is that it is only easy for people who can buy their way into the sport and it's always been the case, regardless of what's between their legs. So the argument that it's easier for boys is simply just not true as a generalisation. It's not easy for anyone.
The fact those people buying their way in are men / boys with rich daddies is just due to there more boys in Motorsport because it's not something many girls are into, let alone girls with enough talent and funding, that side of it is a numbers game, there's less of them, a lot less.
I'm not really talking about top level Motorsport, I'm seeing women get more opportunities for achieving less at grass roots levels which then helps them move up.
Yazza54 said:
Abbie Eaton for example, before she became a household name as far as I can tell hadn't actually won an awful lot, and raced in various championships due to being privileged enough to do so... Now she is widely seen as a professional racing driver and I can tell you now there are many drivers in most club paddocks that I would put money on being more or just as talented as her. This isn't an attack on her either, it's just the truth. If she was a bloke would she have got the opportunities and airtime she's had? I sincerely doubt it.
Abbie was 2014 MX5 Supercup champion. First I knew about her winning it was the BRSCC awards do, so she definitely didn’t get tonnes of column inches (as perhaps evident from the fact you also didn’t realise this).Not aiming this at you as I don’t think that’s what you’ve done here, but there’s a lot of people on the ‘women in motorsport’ threads who unironically fall into the same old trope of calling women spoiled, privileged, positively discriminated against etc. Basically every man in high level motorsport is guilty of all those things too and yet that’s never even mentioned. I’m privileged…I came from a not working class background which meant I went to uni and studied engineering, had a job that meant I could afford a Caterham and parents who were nice enough and able to occasionally fill in the gaps when I needed an extra set of tyres or an extra test day. I then got lucky by getting picked up by a guy who wanted to sponsor someone else and was positively discriminated against for being from the Leicestershire area (where his company was).
Positive discrimination happens literally all the time in motorsport. I’ve seen people pushed out of Lamborghini GT3 drives because they weren’t Italian and there was an Italian driver who was almost as quick. I’ve seen 18 year olds chosen over faster 27 year olds as they’ve had more backing behind them and a chance of bringing the team longer lasting budget and more media attention. Motorsport is not a sport solely about the driver, and a lot of drivers fail to understand this. 25% is your ability behind the wheel….the other 75% is your marketability, your budget and your attitude.
I knew Abbie won that mx5 supercup. The point I was making was most people don't get anything for winning stuff like that. Maybe she didn't either but I'm not sure how she went from that to driving supercars on the grand tour... But yeah, I don't disagree with anything you've said. Any sort of positive discrimination pisses me off. Essentially I'd just like to see some average Joe's, or Jess' 
get some opportunities they deserve without there being an ulterior motive.... Never really happens though.
get some opportunities they deserve without there being an ulterior motive.... Never really happens though. Edited by Yazza54 on Friday 14th June 15:29
Yazza54 said:
IEssentially I'd just like to see some average Joe's, or Jess' get some opportunities they deserve without there being an ulterior motive....
This is a pipedream though. get some opportunities they deserve without there being an ulterior motive.... Modern motorsport is as much about marketability as ability. Women are indeed more marketable and get arguably favoured but that's no different to nationality being favoured or simply knowing the right people.
Yazza54 said:
I knew Abbie won that mx5 supercup. The point I was making was most people don't get anything for winning stuff like that. Maybe she didn't either but I'm not sure how she went from that to driving supercars on the grand tour... But yeah, I don't disagree with anything you've said. Any sort of positive discrimination pisses me off. Essentially I'd just like to see some average Joe's, or Jess' get some opportunities they deserve without there being an ulterior motive.... Never really happens though.
As the saying goes you need two of three things to succeed in motorsport: get some opportunities they deserve without there being an ulterior motive.... Never really happens though. Edited by Yazza54 on Friday 14th June 15:29
Money, Luck, Talent
It doesn’t matter which two, but one alone won’t do it.
Free Market Capitalism does people a big favour in the US. Why nobody can ever get similar prize funds going in Europe is a bit of a puzzle, but the MX5 Cup there for example is insane. It’s not the cheapest to compete in but honestly if you paid your confidence forward the rewards are there for the taking.
Season entry is around $60,000 from memory. I’d imagine you’d probably be looking at $100,000 all in arrive and drive for the 14 round champ.
However. The Prize fund (yeah, imagine getting money for winning!) is insane:
Per race:
- 1st $6000
- 2nd $5000
- 3rd $4000 and so on down to 6th. You then get $1000 from 6th to 10th!
Then the championship placing are
- 1st $250,000
- 2nd $85,000
- 3rd $50,000 and then $20k, 15k, 12k, 10k, 7.5k, 6k, 5k
So if you just finished 10th in every race plus the championship you’d get $19k back! It’s super competitive but the same names finish high up every race. Realistically I’d imagine the champion will take a few wins and several second places. If you take my championship winning season in Caterham which was similarly competitive I think, from memory I had 7 wins, 3 or 4 2nds, a couple of 3rds a top 10 and one dnf. So over those 14 rounds I’d have taken home $315,000! The following year for British GT4 I could have both bought the car, and paid the entire season with money to spare (probably to race more MX5s as many of the guys do).
People like Gresham Wagner have done the series for about 5 years and regularly race in IMSA GT4 and TCR and win or podium those too. This for sure is the way to promote talent over luck or money….
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