Christian Horner
Discussion
MustangGT said:
I would disagree. Max is undoubtedly very fast, probably the fastest. But, that is the only skill he has shown. His race-craft is pretty much non existent and consists of bully-boy tactics. He needs to learn how to play the long game, just like Lewis. His crash or smash approach lost him a lot of points in 2021, starting with the 18 he could have had at Silverstone by coming second and another 18 at Imola.
that's the standard modus operandi of world champions. You spend your 20's thinking you can win every race and then at some point in your 30's you realise you can't and you drive differently.MustangGT said:
I would disagree. Max is undoubtedly very fast, probably the fastest. But, that is the only skill he has shown. His race-craft is pretty much non existent and consists of bully-boy tactics. He needs to learn how to play the long game, just like Lewis. His crash or smash approach lost him a lot of points in 2021, starting with the 18 he could have had at Silverstone by coming second and another 18 at Imola.
Had he got those addition 36 points he would have lost the WDC as Lewis would have gained 50 points without those incidents. Max’s dirty driving paid off over the season so I guess he was playing his version of the long game. sandman77 said:
MustangGT said:
I would disagree. Max is undoubtedly very fast, probably the fastest. But, that is the only skill he has shown. His race-craft is pretty much non existent and consists of bully-boy tactics. He needs to learn how to play the long game, just like Lewis. His crash or smash approach lost him a lot of points in 2021, starting with the 18 he could have had at Silverstone by coming second and another 18 at Imola.
Had he got those addition 36 points he would have lost the WDC as Lewis would have gained 50 points without those incidents. Max’s dirty driving paid off over the season so I guess he was playing his version of the long game. Max won at Imola, it was Monza where they both crashed and didn't finish.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
that's the standard modus operandi of world champions. You spend your 20's thinking you can win every race and then at some point in your 30's you realise you can't and you drive differently.
I beg to differ. World champions are smart in their tactics and driving, otherwise they would not become world champions.jimPH said:
Lewis won at Silverstone anyway.
Max won at Imola, it was Monza where they both crashed and didn't finish.
Thanks, there were so many incidents last season I had forgotten all the details. My point was though that Max’s moves were calculated and I stand by that. I really do despise the little prick!Max won at Imola, it was Monza where they both crashed and didn't finish.
FeelingLucky said:
I wonder how Max might have matured as a driver without the influence of Whinger and Helmet, surely the most divisive/poisonous individuals in F1. Having said that, there's no getting away from the influence of Jos the wife beater.
What would Niki have done with him? Niki pretty openly accused Hamilton of being dangerous in his early McLaren days. Wonder if he would have made him a little bit shrewder. Hamilton definitely developed with his guidance.
ntiz said:
FeelingLucky said:
I wonder how Max might have matured as a driver without the influence of Whinger and Helmet, surely the most divisive/poisonous individuals in F1. Having said that, there's no getting away from the influence of Jos the wife beater.
What would Niki have done with him? Niki pretty openly accused Hamilton of being dangerous in his early McLaren days. Wonder if he would have made him a little bit shrewder. Hamilton definitely developed with his guidance.
ntiz said:
What would Niki have done with him?
Niki pretty openly accused Hamilton of being dangerous in his early McLaren days. Wonder if he would have made him a little bit shrewder. Hamilton definitely developed with his guidance.
McLaren wanted to mould him; Lewis wanted to do things his way, had fallen out with his dad for a while.Niki pretty openly accused Hamilton of being dangerous in his early McLaren days. Wonder if he would have made him a little bit shrewder. Hamilton definitely developed with his guidance.
Hard to say what role Lauda played but Lewis wanted to stand on his own two feet.
I think the rivalry with Nico Rosberg matured Hamilton. What role Lauda played only Lewis can say.
Beating Rosberg takes more than driving with natural talent (he overdrove and made errors in 2016 rather than reliability was what made him lose the 2016 WDC) and likewise Rosberg had to figure out beating Lewis when Lewis had the upperhand in wheel-to-wheel situations. As an example Lewis dictates tyre strategy whereas pre-Bottas he would question tyre strategy and be instantly overruled by the team.
As much as I criticise RBR's way of handling its Golden Boy drivers there's no easy answer. If you don't feed their ego a driver will look for pastures new regardless of how they throw toys out the pram. It's whether the team can afford to lose its star driver and replace them with another driver talent.
entropy said:
As much as I criticise RBR's way of handling its Golden Boy drivers there's no easy answer. If you don't feed their ego a driver will look for pastures new regardless of how they throw toys out the pram. It's whether the team can afford to lose its star driver and replace them with another driver talent.
I do wonder whether any other team would put up with Max's behaviour in the way that Red Bull have though. To my mind Max needs Horner/Marko as much as they need him. 
lauda said:
I do wonder whether any other team would put up with Max's behaviour in the way that Red Bull have though. To my mind Max needs Horner/Marko as much as they need him.
A good point, although Max himself has said he thinks he needed pushing. It’s a very complex subject.I think Max needs someone who is his Jo Ramirez.
I do wonder if now the champion monkey is off his shoulder he’ll relax and mature.
MustangGT said:
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
that's the standard modus operandi of world champions. You spend your 20's thinking you can win every race and then at some point in your 30's you realise you can't and you drive differently.
I beg to differ. World champions are smart in their tactics and driving, otherwise they would not become world champions.Most world champions in their early F1 careers make lots of mistakes, the key is how quickly they learn from them, to then become more consistent and ultimately win a title
Senna crashed into everyone on his way to WDC, Schuey did, Mansell did, Hunt did, Vettel did, Verstappen did. Jackie Stewart used to say that WDC's make about 1 mistake per season, future WDC's make about 4.
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