Daniel Ricciardo
Discussion
Forester1965 said:
I suspect the Red Bull shareholders are concerned there's a risk Verstappen may leave (or negotiate a better deal using the threat of leaving). The lack of succession plan means they have no ready made replacement and less leverage of their own in any negotiation. You're hardly going to threaten Verstappen that Ricciardo is going to take his seat if he goes. Big so what.
They need to return to putting fresh new things into the B team and see which ones float.
They're wasting any succession plan they have by keeping DR and Perez on. They have Tsunoda and Lawson, they lost Albon. Maybe Hadjar could come up from F2 if they had the space, but it will probably be DR out and Lawson in.They need to return to putting fresh new things into the B team and see which ones float.
Muzzer79 said:
Ricciardo was put into RB to cover a Perez exit, not a Verstappen one.
Exactly my point. That situation has passed and now Ricciardo is seat blocking. They now need to put high-potential drivers into the junior team to find the replacement for Verstappen (if they need one) and Perez (they will).One of the weirdest things to see is the narrative of Ricciardo boosters change to "wowww look how close he is to Yuki! There's milliseconds in it!" as if Yuki is some generational talent and Ricciardo is legendary for almost keeping up with him.
Yuki is an inconsistent midfield driver who is still improving. But when Ricciardo was placed in VCARB (or whatever it was called last year) the broad consensus was that if he doesn't wipe the floor with Yuki we will know he's not the old Ricciardo.
It's time for him to retire with what miniscule dignity he has left.
Yuki is an inconsistent midfield driver who is still improving. But when Ricciardo was placed in VCARB (or whatever it was called last year) the broad consensus was that if he doesn't wipe the floor with Yuki we will know he's not the old Ricciardo.
It's time for him to retire with what miniscule dignity he has left.
Talking to yourself nnnitram
We don’t know how good Yuki is. It’s a problem for both that they’re in the same car with no other recent references. Yuki in particular is really losing out from this.
They are probably both better than Perez IMO.
Yuki needs out, he’s clearly not going to progress to Red Bull and he won’t have much to learn from Lawson.
We don’t know how good Yuki is. It’s a problem for both that they’re in the same car with no other recent references. Yuki in particular is really losing out from this.
They are probably both better than Perez IMO.
Yuki needs out, he’s clearly not going to progress to Red Bull and he won’t have much to learn from Lawson.
nnnitram said:
Let's hear the excuses today. 15th place, 1.1s off the pace.
3 tenths off Yuki in Q1, 6.5 tenths in Q2. No excuses from me. However, it seem the team is happy to take the blame for Q2:Jody Egginton - Technical Director said:
Unfortunately, we didn't put Daniel in good enough conditions for his final run in Q2 which got him caught up in a lot of traffic, altering his position for tomorrow.
1.1s off the fastest Q2 time is irrelevant. On that basis, Leclerc is also a loser underserving of a seat 
The only benchmark is the car and team-mate. I know people like to under-rate Yuki (including RBR), but he's not at all a slow driver. The RB car, on the other hand...Hustle_ said:
Talking to yourself nnnitram
We don’t know how good Yuki is. It’s a problem for both that they’re in the same car with no other recent references. Yuki in particular is really losing out from this.
They are probably both better than Perez IMO.
Yuki needs out, he’s clearly not going to progress to Red Bull and he won’t have much to learn from Lawson.
I suspect Redbull would like to use Yuki to benchmark Lawson,We don’t know how good Yuki is. It’s a problem for both that they’re in the same car with no other recent references. Yuki in particular is really losing out from this.
They are probably both better than Perez IMO.
Yuki needs out, he’s clearly not going to progress to Red Bull and he won’t have much to learn from Lawson.
skwdenyer said:
The only benchmark is the car and team-mate. I know people like to under-rate Yuki (including RBR), but he's not at all a slow driver. The RB car, on the other hand...
Exactly what has Tsunoda ever done that Ricciardo being regularly outperformed by him makes you still think Ricciardo is a good driver deserving to move up to the Red Bull 2nd seat?isaldiri said:
skwdenyer said:
The only benchmark is the car and team-mate. I know people like to under-rate Yuki (including RBR), but he's not at all a slow driver. The RB car, on the other hand...
Exactly what has Tsunoda ever done that Ricciardo being regularly outperformed by him makes you still think Ricciardo is a good driver deserving to move up to the Red Bull 2nd seat?I’d gladly see Tsunoda in that seat, too; at least he’d be grateful. Ricciardo with any luck would be less obedient however.
Perez really has been shown up. Riccardo is only judged as weak because for some reason Tsunoda has turned from the most promising rookie of the year to an alleged also-ran without any obvious evidence.
skwdenyer said:
I think Riccardo should have the 2nd RBR seat because he’s no worse, and possibly better, than Perez; and a more likeable character. That’s all.
I’d gladly see Tsunoda in that seat, too; at least he’d be grateful. Ricciardo with any luck would be less obedient however.
Perez really has been shown up. Riccardo is only judged as weak because for some reason Tsunoda has turned from the most promising rookie of the year to an alleged also-ran without any obvious evidence.
So you think ricciardo would deserve that seat at red bull over his teammate that has regularly outperformed him? If you were as regularly banging the drum for tsunoda to replace Perez, it still would make sense. For you to be doing so for Ricciardo is frankly a mystery.I’d gladly see Tsunoda in that seat, too; at least he’d be grateful. Ricciardo with any luck would be less obedient however.
Perez really has been shown up. Riccardo is only judged as weak because for some reason Tsunoda has turned from the most promising rookie of the year to an alleged also-ran without any obvious evidence.
And again, tsunoda has not exactly done anything impressive to be considered anything other than a middling also-ran. If he was ‘most promising rookie of the year’, his competition was mick schumacher and nikita mazepin. Tsunoda merely needed to be not incompetent to be considered better.
The equation for RB isn't just about "is this driver doing well enough that we should promote him?", it's "our other driver is doing really badly, who have we got to replace him with?". If they want to make a change at the top team then that means changes at the second team as well.
If Perez is doing badly enough that they want him gone and they only have Daniel, Yuki and Liam to chose between as a replacement, who is the obvious pick? The answer at the moment is none of them.
Yuki is only there because of Honda backing, and for whatever reason has never been considered for promotion, and probably never will.
Daniel isn't doing enough against Yuki to be an automatic pick, although recent races have shown more promise.
Liam is an unknown quantity. He did okay for a rookie stand in last year, but wasn't consistently ahead of Yuki either. If they throw him straight into RBR alongside Max he could end up like Albon, Gasly and Kvyat, spat out and needing to rebuild confidence and career.
The filming day test for Liam next week is possibly a sign that he's going to be in a race car soon if he shows well in the test. The only question then is in which car and which one of Daniel and Sergio gets dropped. At least with Daniel they have someone who they know can win races when the car is right, and he probably won't do any worse than Sergio is currently. Perez is certainly the most underperforming driver in Red Bull's stable right now, and it's anybody's guess if they would bench him completely or just demote him and bench somebody else instead.
If Perez is doing badly enough that they want him gone and they only have Daniel, Yuki and Liam to chose between as a replacement, who is the obvious pick? The answer at the moment is none of them.
Yuki is only there because of Honda backing, and for whatever reason has never been considered for promotion, and probably never will.
Daniel isn't doing enough against Yuki to be an automatic pick, although recent races have shown more promise.
Liam is an unknown quantity. He did okay for a rookie stand in last year, but wasn't consistently ahead of Yuki either. If they throw him straight into RBR alongside Max he could end up like Albon, Gasly and Kvyat, spat out and needing to rebuild confidence and career.
The filming day test for Liam next week is possibly a sign that he's going to be in a race car soon if he shows well in the test. The only question then is in which car and which one of Daniel and Sergio gets dropped. At least with Daniel they have someone who they know can win races when the car is right, and he probably won't do any worse than Sergio is currently. Perez is certainly the most underperforming driver in Red Bull's stable right now, and it's anybody's guess if they would bench him completely or just demote him and bench somebody else instead.
isaldiri said:
So you think ricciardo would deserve that seat at red bull over his teammate that has regularly outperformed him? If you were as regularly banging the drum for tsunoda to replace Perez, it still would make sense. For you to be doing so for Ricciardo is frankly a mystery.
And again, tsunoda has not exactly done anything impressive to be considered anything other than a middling also-ran. If he was ‘most promising rookie of the year’, his competition was mick schumacher and nikita mazepin. Tsunoda merely needed to be not incompetent to be considered better.
It isn’t deserve, just what I’d like to see And again, tsunoda has not exactly done anything impressive to be considered anything other than a middling also-ran. If he was ‘most promising rookie of the year’, his competition was mick schumacher and nikita mazepin. Tsunoda merely needed to be not incompetent to be considered better.
2fast748 said:
This all begs the question: How can a company with so many young drivers who get short shrift if they're haven't performed in the last couple of races be stuck with 3 drivers who nobody else would (should?) actually employ?
Good observation. The very obvious answer is that Helmet culls them far too hastily and ends up with a load of drivers in F2 who have learned quickly but peaked early.
He doesn’t seem to think that anyone can be deserving if they take time to get to speed and build their skillset more slowly.
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