Lewis Hamilton to Ferrari
Discussion
carlo996 said:
paulguitar said:
Yes, it's interesting how it is still being discussed. Predictions of everyone 'forgetting about' one of the greatest scandals in sporting history were predictably inaccurate.
I think all but the die hard LH fans have moved on, as has LH himself! As for 'greatest scandals in sporting history', maybe one of F1's, but there are far worse and more blatant bits of cheating which rank higher? Hand of God, Lance, bloodgate, FIFA bribes...jm doc said:
Still beats all of those...
Much as you want to convince yourself that it was some grand plan to stop the 8th, it wasn't - Masi f
ked up. It's not any deeper than that - hence Lewis got away with the corner cut at the start - that would've been the perfect time to implement some bias - not waiting for Latifi to randomly drop it.The Ballestre events of the the late 80s and the clear wild bias against Senna was far far far more premeditated and as a result a far greater scandal.
honda_exige said:
Much as you want to convince yourself that it was some grand plan to stop the 8th, it wasn't - Masi fked up. It's not any deeper than that - hence Lewis got away with the corner cut at the start - that would've been the perfect time to implement some bias - not waiting for Latifi to randomly drop it.
The Ballestre events of the the late 80s and the clear wild bias against Senna was far far far more premeditated and as a result a far greater scandal.
the stewards doubled down on the fked up. It's not any deeper than that - hence Lewis got away with the corner cut at the start - that would've been the perfect time to implement some bias - not waiting for Latifi to randomly drop it.The Ballestre events of the the late 80s and the clear wild bias against Senna was far far far more premeditated and as a result a far greater scandal.
k up though, and then all of F1 pretended that Verstappen had beaten Hamilton when -until the point the race departed from the rules - he was thoroughly beaten. he was 14 second behind, ffs. he lost. he was the loser. he didn't have what it took to beat Hamilton without the rules being dynamically changed in a way that was impossible for his competitor to predict, to respond to or to accommodate. It's one thing make such a mistake, it's a another to keep going once you realise the mistake.
re the start - it's clear max didn't leave the space required for his competitor, who was substantially alongside him, on the exit of the corner. Hence Hamilton leaving the track, and hence no action taken against LH. there was nothing to get away with - or rather, it was Max who got away with his move where he didn't leave the required room for his competitor.
Edited by PlywoodPascal on Tuesday 5th March 12:44
carlo996 said:
paulguitar said:
Yes, it's interesting how it is still being discussed. Predictions of everyone 'forgetting about' one of the greatest scandals in sporting history were predictably inaccurate.
I think all but the die hard LH fans have moved on, as has LH himself! As for 'greatest scandals in sporting history', maybe one of F1's, but there are far worse and more blatant bits of cheating which rank higher? Hand of God, Lance, bloodgate, FIFA bribes...PlywoodPascal said:
honda_exige said:
Much as you want to convince yourself that it was some grand plan to stop the 8th, it wasn't - Masi fked up. It's not any deeper than that - hence Lewis got away with the corner cut at the start - that would've been the perfect time to implement some bias - not waiting for Latifi to randomly drop it.
The Ballestre events of the the late 80s and the clear wild bias against Senna was far far far more premeditated and as a result a far greater scandal.
the stewards doubled down on the fked up. It's not any deeper than that - hence Lewis got away with the corner cut at the start - that would've been the perfect time to implement some bias - not waiting for Latifi to randomly drop it.The Ballestre events of the the late 80s and the clear wild bias against Senna was far far far more premeditated and as a result a far greater scandal.
k up though, and then all of F1 pretended that Verstappen had beaten Hamilton when -until the point the race departed from the rules - he was thoroughly beaten. he was 14 second behind, ffs. he lost. he was the loser. he didn't have what it took to beat Hamilton without the rules being dynamically changed in a way that was impossible for his competitor to predict, to respond to or to accommodate. It's one thing make such a mistake, it's a another to keep going once you realise the mistake.
re the start - it's clear max didn't leave the space required for his competitor, who was substantially alongside him, on the exit of the corner. Hence Hamilton leaving the track, and hence no action taken against LH. there was nothing to get away with - or rather, it was Max who got away with his move where he didn't leave the required room for his competitor.
Edited by PlywoodPascal on Tuesday 5th March 12:44
You can't have it both ways - Masi corrupt enough to prevent Lewis winning at all costs but yet given a golden opportunity to get Max into 1st place forgoes it.
honda_exige said:
Much as you want to convince yourself that it was some grand plan to stop the 8th, it wasn't - Masi fked up. It's not any deeper than that - hence Lewis got away with the corner cut at the start - that would've been the perfect time to implement some bias - not waiting for Latifi to randomly drop it.
The Ballestre events of the the late 80s and the clear wild bias against Senna was far far far more premeditated and as a result a far greater scandal.
Not to mention Flavio.ked up. It's not any deeper than that - hence Lewis got away with the corner cut at the start - that would've been the perfect time to implement some bias - not waiting for Latifi to randomly drop it.The Ballestre events of the the late 80s and the clear wild bias against Senna was far far far more premeditated and as a result a far greater scandal.
honda_exige said:
Hamilton bailed out and planted the throttle when he still technically had space and he was no longer substantially alongside - easily grounds for Masi to display an inherent desire to have Max win if he did harbour one.
You can't have it both ways - Masi corrupt enough to prevent Lewis winning at all costs but yet given a golden opportunity to get Max into 1st place forgoes it.
Yeah that image shows the space that hamilton still “technically” (i.e.did not) had to make the corner and remain on track, all 20cm of it! It’s clear from the trajectory of max’s car that his divebomb technique (as usual) was making no allowance for the other car to remain on track.You can't have it both ways - Masi corrupt enough to prevent Lewis winning at all costs but yet given a golden opportunity to get Max into 1st place forgoes it.
I am not trying to have it both ways, I do not think Masi was trying to prevent hamilton from winning. I think he made a mistake, doubled down on it, and then the decision was unforgivably defended by the stewards who made up some laughable arguments to justify the shiotshow of a result.
As I said, in terms of the sporting context, everyone knows max lost, he was the loser in 2021.
honda_exige said:
Much as you want to convince yourself that it was some grand plan to stop the 8th, it wasn't - Masi fked up. It's not any deeper than that - hence Lewis got away with the corner cut at the start - that would've been the perfect time to implement some bias - not waiting for Latifi to randomly drop it.
The Ballestre events of the the late 80s and the clear wild bias against Senna was far far far more premeditated and as a result a far greater scandal.
^^this^^ked up. It's not any deeper than that - hence Lewis got away with the corner cut at the start - that would've been the perfect time to implement some bias - not waiting for Latifi to randomly drop it.The Ballestre events of the the late 80s and the clear wild bias against Senna was far far far more premeditated and as a result a far greater scandal.
honda_exige said:
PlywoodPascal said:
honda_exige said:
Much as you want to convince yourself that it was some grand plan to stop the 8th, it wasn't - Masi fked up. It's not any deeper than that - hence Lewis got away with the corner cut at the start - that would've been the perfect time to implement some bias - not waiting for Latifi to randomly drop it.
The Ballestre events of the the late 80s and the clear wild bias against Senna was far far far more premeditated and as a result a far greater scandal.
the stewards doubled down on the fked up. It's not any deeper than that - hence Lewis got away with the corner cut at the start - that would've been the perfect time to implement some bias - not waiting for Latifi to randomly drop it.The Ballestre events of the the late 80s and the clear wild bias against Senna was far far far more premeditated and as a result a far greater scandal.
k up though, and then all of F1 pretended that Verstappen had beaten Hamilton when -until the point the race departed from the rules - he was thoroughly beaten. he was 14 second behind, ffs. he lost. he was the loser. he didn't have what it took to beat Hamilton without the rules being dynamically changed in a way that was impossible for his competitor to predict, to respond to or to accommodate. It's one thing make such a mistake, it's a another to keep going once you realise the mistake.
re the start - it's clear max didn't leave the space required for his competitor, who was substantially alongside him, on the exit of the corner. Hence Hamilton leaving the track, and hence no action taken against LH. there was nothing to get away with - or rather, it was Max who got away with his move where he didn't leave the required room for his competitor.
You can't have it both ways - Masi corrupt enough to prevent Lewis winning at all costs but yet given a golden opportunity to get Max into 1st place forgoes it.
Is anyone claiming it was a deliberate fudge in order to make Max win? IMO it was a general clusterf
k with the unintended consequence of gifting Max the win. PlywoodPascal said:
Yeah that image shows the space that hamilton still “technically” (i.e.did not) had to make the corner and remain on track, all 20cm of it! It’s clear from the trajectory of max’s car that his divebomb technique (as usual) was making no allowance for the other car to remain on track.
I am not trying to have it both ways, I do not think Masi was trying to prevent hamilton from winning. I think he made a mistake, doubled down on it, and then the decision was unforgivably defended by the stewards who made up some laughable arguments to justify the shiotshow of a result.
As I said, in terms of the sporting context, everyone knows max lost, he was the loser in 2021.
It's a bad image. It's clear as day if you look at just before the apex and the apex itself that Hamilton could easily have stayed on track and there was more than enough room for Vestappen to make the move. Watching it all back in slow motion you can clearly see that Hamilton was still turning in when Verstappen was past the point that it was "his" corner. I am not trying to have it both ways, I do not think Masi was trying to prevent hamilton from winning. I think he made a mistake, doubled down on it, and then the decision was unforgivably defended by the stewards who made up some laughable arguments to justify the shiotshow of a result.
As I said, in terms of the sporting context, everyone knows max lost, he was the loser in 2021.
Personally I don't see Max as the loser for multiple reasons so please avoid the use of "everyione".
carlo996 said:
I think all but the die hard LH fans have moved on, as has LH himself! As for 'greatest scandals in sporting history', maybe one of F1's, but there are far worse and more blatant bits of cheating which rank higher? Hand of God, Lance, bloodgate, FIFA bribes...
It's absolutely nothing to do with whether anyone is a Hamilton fan, a Verstappen fan or a fan of neither.And it is one of the greatest scandals in sporting history. Certainly, the biggest I've seen in my lifetime, and I'm 52.
honda_exige said:
Hamilton bailed out and planted the throttle when he still technically had space and he was no longer substantially alongside - easily grounds for Masi to display an inherent desire to have Max win if he did harbour one.
You can't have it both ways - Masi corrupt enough to prevent Lewis winning at all costs but yet given a golden opportunity to get Max into 1st place forgoes it.
Masi didn't make the decision on that, it goes to the stewards. You can see from the angle of Max car he had no intention of leaving space, it's a great photo to show that reality.You can't have it both ways - Masi corrupt enough to prevent Lewis winning at all costs but yet given a golden opportunity to get Max into 1st place forgoes it.
paulguitar said:
Verstappen was absolutely beaten that day, and beaten by a long, long way. Hamilton was coasting to the flag before F1 became wrestling.
And that was despite the rather robust defensive drive by an underfueled Perez that cut Lewis lead by 10 seconds mid race.Red Bull and Max were spanked on track that day, it wasn't even close.
GlobalRacer said:
PlywoodPascal said:
Yeah that image shows the space that hamilton still “technically” (i.e.did not) had to make the corner and remain on track, all 20cm of it! It’s clear from the trajectory of max’s car that his divebomb technique (as usual) was making no allowance for the other car to remain on track.
I am not trying to have it both ways, I do not think Masi was trying to prevent hamilton from winning. I think he made a mistake, doubled down on it, and then the decision was unforgivably defended by the stewards who made up some laughable arguments to justify the shiotshow of a result.
As I said, in terms of the sporting context, everyone knows max lost, he was the loser in 2021.
It's a bad image. It's clear as day if you look at just before the apex and the apex itself that Hamilton could easily have stayed on track and there was more than enough room for Vestappen to make the move. Watching it all back in slow motion you can clearly see that Hamilton was still turning in when Verstappen was past the point that it was "his" corner. I am not trying to have it both ways, I do not think Masi was trying to prevent hamilton from winning. I think he made a mistake, doubled down on it, and then the decision was unforgivably defended by the stewards who made up some laughable arguments to justify the shiotshow of a result.
As I said, in terms of the sporting context, everyone knows max lost, he was the loser in 2021.
Personally I don't see Max as the loser for multiple reasons so please avoid the use of "everyione".
paulguitar said:
It's absolutely nothing to do with whether anyone is a Hamilton fan, a Verstappen fan or a fan of neither.
And it is one of the greatest scandals in sporting history. Certainly, the biggest I've seen in my lifetime, and I'm 52.
Not for me, it's the same as Schumacher, Prost, Senna's antics in the past. Certainly wasn't premeditated...it was a screw up nothing more. Hardly on the scale of Lance the doper, who ruined loads of individuals lives and stole millions from well meaning sponsors...And it is one of the greatest scandals in sporting history. Certainly, the biggest I've seen in my lifetime, and I'm 52.
carlo996 said:
paulguitar said:
It's absolutely nothing to do with whether anyone is a Hamilton fan, a Verstappen fan or a fan of neither.
And it is one of the greatest scandals in sporting history. Certainly, the biggest I've seen in my lifetime, and I'm 52.
Not for me, it's the same as Schumacher, Prost, Senna's antics in the past. And it is one of the greatest scandals in sporting history. Certainly, the biggest I've seen in my lifetime, and I'm 52.
520TORQUES said:
honda_exige said:
Hamilton bailed out and planted the throttle when he still technically had space and he was no longer substantially alongside - easily grounds for Masi to display an inherent desire to have Max win if he did harbour one.
You can't have it both ways - Masi corrupt enough to prevent Lewis winning at all costs but yet given a golden opportunity to get Max into 1st place forgoes it.
Masi didn't make the decision on that, it goes to the stewards. You can see from the angle of Max car he had no intention of leaving space, it's a great photo to show that reality.You can't have it both ways - Masi corrupt enough to prevent Lewis winning at all costs but yet given a golden opportunity to get Max into 1st place forgoes it.
The stewards backed Masi post race so would have to be part of the same great conspiracy - again they could've ordered Lewis give the position back but they didn't.
As above I'm not convinced in the slightest that there was a premeditated conspiracy to stop Lewis winning.
The problem here is that for LH fans a conspiracy is easier to deal with and gives something to rail against.
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