F1 has rejected Andretti's entry bid
Discussion
In an interesting turn of events, US Congress are getting involved...
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/us-congress-mem...
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/us-congress-mem...
Sandpit Steve said:
Good on Andretti for keeping the pressure on, and at least making them squirm. I can well imagine Liberty getting dragged into a Congressional committee on the subject, where Liberty execs wil have to explain on the record the reasoning behind their decision.
Any reason Liberty will care what a small number of people in Congress thinks?Forester1965 said:
Sandpit Steve said:
Good on Andretti for keeping the pressure on, and at least making them squirm. I can well imagine Liberty getting dragged into a Congressional committee on the subject, where Liberty execs wil have to explain on the record the reasoning behind their decision.
Any reason Liberty will care what a small number of people in Congress thinks?FourWheelDrift said:
Andretti opened their new Silverstone based UK facility today.
https://twitter.com/AndrettiGlobal/status/17780707...
I saw they've also begun hiring for a raft of F1 related roles.https://twitter.com/AndrettiGlobal/status/17780707...
Forester1965 said:
Any reason Liberty will care what a small number of people in Congress thinks?
Surely because they're an American company listed on the New York Stock Exchange and have to abide by American laws for businesses. If they're found to be in breach of anti-competition laws then they will face fines and/or sanctions.More here - https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/us-congressman-...
“I’ll let you figure out if this is cartel-type behaviour; if this is anti-competition, monopolistic-type behaviour.
"But from where I’m standing, when you have a company, Liberty Media, that also owns 30% of Live Nation, which is literally this week under investigation by the [Justice Department] for anti-competition and monopolistic-type behaviours..."
“I’ll let you figure out if this is cartel-type behaviour; if this is anti-competition, monopolistic-type behaviour.
"But from where I’m standing, when you have a company, Liberty Media, that also owns 30% of Live Nation, which is literally this week under investigation by the [Justice Department] for anti-competition and monopolistic-type behaviours..."
thegreenhell said:
Surely because they're an American company listed on the New York Stock Exchange and have to abide by American laws for businesses. If they're found to be in breach of anti-competition laws then they will face fines and/or sanctions.
Which anti competition laws are they likely to be breaking with F1 and how would allowing additional teams into F1 change that?FYI- I'd happily see 4 or 5 new teams on the grid.
Forester1965 said:
Which anti competition laws are they likely to be breaking with F1 and how would allowing additional teams into F1 change that?
FYI- I'd happily see 4 or 5 new teams on the grid.
That is what Congress are trying to determine. If they think they are breaking laws then it will get referred to the Justice Department for a formal investigation.FYI- I'd happily see 4 or 5 new teams on the grid.
thegreenhell said:
More here - https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/us-congressman-...
“I’ll let you figure out if this is cartel-type behaviour; if this is anti-competition, monopolistic-type behaviour.
"But from where I’m standing, when you have a company, Liberty Media, that also owns 30% of Live Nation, which is literally this week under investigation by the [Justice Department] for anti-competition and monopolistic-type behaviours..."
Live Nation are one of the most complained about (to authorities) companies in the US. They now have pretty much a total monopoly on concerts and tickets, their Ticketmaster brand is about as popular as Sky TV on a UK F1 forum. “I’ll let you figure out if this is cartel-type behaviour; if this is anti-competition, monopolistic-type behaviour.
"But from where I’m standing, when you have a company, Liberty Media, that also owns 30% of Live Nation, which is literally this week under investigation by the [Justice Department] for anti-competition and monopolistic-type behaviours..."
Sandpit Steve said:
Live Nation are one of the most complained about (to authorities) companies in the US. They now have pretty much a total monopoly on concerts and tickets, their Ticketmaster brand is about as popular as Sky TV on a UK F1 forum.
Just to digress slightly ... Whilst this is true and they're not totally innocent this is because they operate in a lose-lose area of live events and also because they control almost every ticketing sale in the US (so likely to get most of the complaints), via a merger that even those inside were not sure would go through, yet someone else said yes to. Like many things it's very different on the inside and Ticketmaster in particular take the brunt of bad press for things that are 90% of the time, out of their control, for example:
If the event organization was poor - blame Ticketmaster
If the event was crap - blame Ticketmaster
If it's cancelled - blame Ticketmaster
If you didn't get a warning it could be postponed - blame Ticketmaster
If the tickets are outrageously priced - blame Ticketmaster
If anything above (and more) resulted in it not being value for money - blame Ticketmaster
I want a refund but didn't get one - blame Ticketmaster
If it was good - praise the artist/show etc.
MustangGT said:
So congress are complaining to Liberty Media about the actions of Formula 1 Management Ltd. I expect Liberty think the chain of ownership is sufficiently long for them to be dis-associated. Hmmm
Exactly.its a shame no one can put a rocket up F1 Management ltd for this but that's what we are stuck with, just like Turkey's wouldn't vote for Christmas...
I may be wrong but I think that a number of team owners don’t like the fact that the Andretti name would bring in the right team personnel and talent to be a success pretty quickly. American sponsors would like to be associated with the team and some of those may switch from existing teams.
I think Andretti scares the sh*t out of several F1 teams that have American input.
I think Andretti scares the sh*t out of several F1 teams that have American input.
Tazar said:
I may be wrong but I think that a number of team owners don’t like the fact that the Andretti name would bring in the right team personnel and talent to be a success pretty quickly. American sponsors would like to be associated with the team and some of those may switch from existing teams.
I think Andretti scares the sh*t out of several F1 teams that have American input.
The trouble is, there’s no evidence a startup team can get competitive in modern F1 given the various constraints on testing, CFD, wind tunnel time, etc. How is corporate knowledge to be obtained to provide a baseline?I think Andretti scares the sh*t out of several F1 teams that have American input.
Andretti are a storied brand, but seem to have precious little relevant transferable experience in designing F1-type cars.
Now I happen to believe additional teams *should* be allowed, but we don’t have the ladder of opportunity for that to happen through the lower formulae any longer. F1 is a bit of a niche these days, not a natural extension of wider motorsport.
You could make that argument against any new team that wants to enter, but if you don't even let them try then how do you know how they'll perform? If a team like Andretti with GM backing isn't good enough, then who is? It's not as if all the current teams are covering themselves in competitive glory anyway.
skwdenyer said:
The trouble is, there’s no evidence a startup team can get competitive in modern F1 given the various constraints on testing, CFD, wind tunnel time, etc. How is corporate knowledge to be obtained to provide a baseline?
Andretti are a storied brand, but seem to have precious little relevant transferable experience in designing F1-type cars.
Now I happen to believe additional teams *should* be allowed, but we don’t have the ladder of opportunity for that to happen through the lower formulae any longer. F1 is a bit of a niche these days, not a natural extension of wider motorsport.
Stewart F1 had no experience building an F1 car when it entered. Neither did Ford when they bought it. Neither did Red Bull when they bought it. Seemed to do ok. Andretti are a storied brand, but seem to have precious little relevant transferable experience in designing F1-type cars.
Now I happen to believe additional teams *should* be allowed, but we don’t have the ladder of opportunity for that to happen through the lower formulae any longer. F1 is a bit of a niche these days, not a natural extension of wider motorsport.
The only reason Liberty and the teams don't want another entrant is it'll dilute the asset value of the teams and Liberty will have to stump up extra prize money to keep the others happy which will impact their bottom line. As Liberty say themselves about F1, "scarcity increases demand".
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