Official 2024 Austrian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

[HardtopManual]

Blib said:

I was warming to Verstappen. However, he's proven time and time again that he is incapable of racing fairly, wheel-to-wheel.

Same here. I was at Barcelona when Max jumped into a RB and got his maiden win. He was a raw talent and his errors forgivable. He appeared to have matured significantly after his 2021 incidents and the multiple WDCs, and my respect for him grew. But it turns out he is only mature when he is winning. He never grew up.

[Sandpit Steve]

bobbo89 said:

Yep. I was starting to think that with his desperation to bag his first world championship out of the way that he'd matured but clearly not.

As you say it's a shame, even more so when you consider how pally he is with Lando, wiffs of Hamilton/Rosberg about it all...

Yep, Lewis and Nico were friends forever until 2016, after which they barely spoke to each other for three or four years! Being up for the championship does that to people, as they’ve both spoken about subsequently and they get on fine now. But those two were generally fair racers, with the inevitable couple of contacts between them.

Lando’s the first of Max’s peer group of ‘friends’ to get punted by him on the track, and he won’t be the last. As many of us said yesterday, the only way MV will ever learn is if he keeps losing wins with his attitude to confrontation, to the point where his winning the championship is in jeopardy.

[Another project]

Verstappen has managed to stay out of trouble over the last few years only because he didn't actually have to race with anyone but now the difference is he's leading the championship, he has more to lose than everyone who tries to challenge him so those sorts of dodgy defensive moves won't put others off getting stuck in trying to race him

[ChocolateFrog]

Adrian W said:

Bo_apex said:

Biggles Flies Undone said:

I thought it was serious enough to have a think about a DSQ. That would have been a worthy punishment for the impact it had on Norris and the race as a whole.

Schumacher and Villeneuve collide at Jerez. Villeneuve went on to win the race.
Schumacher was DQ'd from the 1997 season for "causing a collision".

Hamilton punts Max into the wall at Silverstone, ending Max's race. (50G impact apparently)
Hamilton receives a 5 second penalty for "causing a collision".


FIA seems perfectly consistent

You're trying to rewrite history, Hamilton didn't punt Verstappen into the wall, neither driver backed out, the stewards felt that Hamilton was slightly more at fault and could still continue so gave him a small penalty, nicectry though

Which was rubbish in itself.

Akin to 50:50 challenge in football where one side gets injured and for some reason that often necessitates a yellow card for no other reason than someone got injured.

Exactly the same philosophy creeping into F1.

[NRS]

jimmsy said:

Interesting footage from a previous year with roles reversed and no penalty: https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.r...

Bit of a difference where the cars were on the apex. Max’s move back to the left of the track meant he missed the apex and left no space for Norris.

[Gad-Westy]

NRS said:

jimmsy said:

Interesting footage from a previous year with roles reversed and no penalty: https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.r...

Bit of a difference where the cars were on the apex. Max’s move back to the left of the track meant he missed the apex and left no space for Norris.

TBH, I don't really see why Sainz avoided punishment for that one either. MV essentially had to go off track to avoid a collision. It seems to me that punishment is only dished out if there is a collision. Which is daft really. The 'victim' bailing out seems to me to be of no relevance and really only encourages drivers to make an illegal defence, knowing that if the other driver bails, they'll get away with it. CLCs defence against LH at Monza in 2019 was bad too but again it seems that because Hamilton bailed out (and maybe a bit because: Tifosi), CLC got away with a slapped wrist.

[Hungrymc]

SmoothCriminal said:

Hungrymc said:

Derek Smith said:

rscott said:

Appears there were 2 good reasons for Hamilton's lack of performance - side pod and floor both look secondhand.

It was damaged on a kerb when he went off-circuit it seems, so self-inflicted.

I thought both were the T1 incident with Sainz ? He certainly bounced across the sausage type kerb there.

Left no space by Sainz so not sure how it was self inflicted which makes it even more strange that Mercedes made him give the place back.

In this world of odd and inconsistent stewarding, one thing you can be certain of, is that they would have penalised Lewis (even though I saw the incident as you did with Carlos not leaving room). T1, lap 1, it should have been a racing incident with no change or action needed.

[isaldiri]

NRS said:

Bit of a difference where the cars were on the apex. Max’s move back to the left of the track meant he missed the apex and left no space for Norris.

Norris clearly has more than one car width of space in your pic. Per that pic you can’t reasonably claim he was left no space….

[Killer2005]

isaldiri said:

NRS said:

Bit of a difference where the cars were on the apex. Max’s move back to the left of the track meant he missed the apex and left no space for Norris.

Norris clearly has more than one car width of space in your pic. Per that pic you can’t reasonably claim he was left no space….

Yep, left him lots of room

[Ken_Code]

I don’t really understand why anyone would fervently support Max.

He’s an utterly spoiled rich boy, who has been indulged his whole life, a male Verucca Salt.

When his dad was beating seven shades of st out of Max’s mother rather than taking her side and turning his back on the violent thug he chose instead to side with Jos.

What sort of person chooses to cheer him on?

[NRS]

isaldiri said:

Norris clearly has more than one car width of space in your pic. Per that pic you can’t reasonably claim he was left no space….

That’s one point after they have crashed, since Max has missed the apex by a lot he’ll force the outer car off the track and not leave space (same as Lando did previously). But Max also squeezed Lando on the way into the corner too and moved back to the outside of the track there, enough so that he missed the apex as a result.

Missing the apex and running into the car on the outside was what got a penalty in Silverstone 21 and the car on the inside was regarded primarily at fault for the accident.

[Stan the Bat]

HardtopManual said:

Bo_apex said:

Schumacher and Villeneuve collide at Jerez. Villeneuve went on to win the race.
Schumacher was DQ'd from the 1997 season for "causing a collision".

Hamilton punts Max into the wall at Silverstone, ending Max's race. (50G impact apparently)
Hamilton receives a 5 second penalty for "causing a collision".

FIA seems perfectly consistent

Every time I read this sort of dross, I'm glad to be blessed with the mental faculties to know the difference between these two incidents. I find it quite unbelievable that someone with enough brainpower to log in to a website and type some sentences struggles with it.

[TheDeuce]

Ken_Code said:

I don’t really understand why anyone would fervently support Max.

He’s an utterly spoiled rich boy, who has been indulged his whole life, a male Verucca Salt.

When his dad was beating seven shades of st out of Max’s mother rather than taking her side and turning his back on the violent thug he chose instead to side with Jos.

What sort of person chooses to cheer him on?

Horner thinks Max is great, so, that sort of person?

AKA multiple cheating, baby abandoning letch, Horny.


Although for balance I should add that Toto also sings max's praises... But I imagine if Max did end up at Mercedes he would find the culture very different to that at RBR (maybe he might even benefit from it..) I also imagine that his sodding Dad wouldn't be part of the final deal. Toto might love the idea of a driver like Max, but probably not quite enough to accept a thug dragging his knuckles around the garage and mouth breathing over his shoulder each race.

[hot metal]

Sandpit Steve said:

Yep, Lewis and Nico were friends forever until 2016, after which they barely spoke to each other for three or four years! Being up for the championship does that to people, as they’ve both spoken about subsequently and they get on fine now. But those two were generally fair racers, with the inevitable couple of contacts between them.

Lando’s the first of Max’s peer group of ‘friends’ to get punted by him on the track, and he won’t be the last. As many of us said yesterday, the only way MV will ever learn is if he keeps losing wins with his attitude to confrontation, to the point where his winning the championship is in jeopardy.

I`d say that friendship is on very shaky foundations right now.

[Hungrymc]

isaldiri said:

NRS said:

Bit of a difference where the cars were on the apex. Max’s move back to the left of the track meant he missed the apex and left no space for Norris.

Norris clearly has more than one car width of space in your pic. Per that pic you can’t reasonably claim he was left no space….

I can normally spot an attempted wind up but you nearly had me…

That still is after the first collision.
But before the second,
And well before Max tried to hit Lando a third time.

What on earth were you actually watching ?

[hot metal]

isaldiri said:

Norris clearly has more than one car width of space in your pic. Per that pic you can’t reasonably claim he was left no space….

That`s a few metres after they touched, Max moved / bounced back towards the centre of the track. Watch Davidson`s analysis on You Tube.

[hot metal]

Anyway, it was all obviously Hamilton`s fault, so that wraps that up.

[BrettMRC]

hot metal said:

Anyway, it was all obviously Hamilton`s fault, so that wraps that up.

100%

[isaldiri]

NRS said:

isaldiri said:

Norris clearly has more than one car width of space in your pic. Per that pic you can’t reasonably claim he was left no space….

That’s one point after they have crashed, since Max has missed the apex by a lot he’ll force the outer car off the track and not leave space (same as Lando did previously). But Max also squeezed Lando on the way into the corner too and moved back to the outside of the track there, enough so that he missed the apex as a result.

Missing the apex and running into the car on the outside was what got a penalty in Silverstone 21 and the car on the inside was regarded primarily at fault for the accident.

Then use the picture that showed no room being left? As I said earlier, verstappen clearly didn't leave Norris enough space earlier but if you're going to put out a pic to show that was the case, it rather obviously was not showing what you were saying.

[NRS]

isaldiri said:

Then use the picture that showed no room being left? As I said earlier, verstappen clearly didn't leave Norris enough space earlier but if you're going to put out a pic to show that was the case, it rather obviously was not showing what you were saying.

I was showing the apex, as that was the point about the difference between the two examples on the same corner. The apex will be the part of the corner with the most room, so there will almost always be space for both cars there. The issue is if you miss the apex it means no room for the car on the outside to be on track. This was brought in if I remember right because it was a favorite move of Lewis, to run the car out wide to the edge of the track meaning the car on the outside would always lose a lot of time. Very good for position, bad for racing as it would instantly kill a challenge.