Official 2024 Austrian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

[Bo_apex]

Byker28i said:

Biggles Flies Undone said:

Bo_apex said:

Adrian W said:

Bo_apex said:

Biggles Flies Undone said:

I thought it was serious enough to have a think about a DSQ. That would have been a worthy punishment for the impact it had on Norris and the race as a whole.

Schumacher and Villeneuve collide at Jerez. Villeneuve went on to win the race.
Schumacher was DQ'd from the 1997 season for "causing a collision".

Hamilton punts Max into the wall at Silverstone, ending Max's race. (50G impact apparently)
Hamilton receives a 5 second penalty for "causing a collision".


FIA seems perfectly consistent

You're trying to rewrite history, Hamilton didn't punt Verstappen into the wall, neither driver backed out, the stewards felt that Hamilton was slightly more at fault and could still continue so gave him a small penalty, nicectry though

"Slightly" more British driver at British GP

Brilliant

That was a racing incident all day long. This was simply a case of dirty driving. Dirty driving that we witnessed multiple times on previous laps as well.

and again, onboard footage showed max tried to squeeze Lewis out, showed the steering wheel move, causing them to touch.
Same old max

Did you notice how Ham gave LeC more room at the same corner & position later that race

Any chance Ham knew exactly what would happen with that particular contact point at that particular corner ?



Re: Norris. Good for the Silverstone victory

[suffolk009]

HTP99 said:

suffolk009 said:

Has nobody on here mentioned the 2 points the Stewarts have apparently slapped on Verstappen's license?

Admittedly, I've not read the whole thread.

The licence points thing is bks, if applied correctly Magnussen would already have a ban, no one will be getting a ban due to licence points, the Stewarts (sic) don't want to give a race ban to anyone.

So sorry, didn't mean to upset you with that little spelling error. Glad you have the inside knowledge of the thinking and workings of the Stewards.

[DeejRC]

RemarkLima said:

Roofless Toothless said:

DeejRC said:

You have missed the entire pt though. There is no such thing as
“Sporting integrity” in professional sports. There is only earning the money. That comes from either winning, or ensuring exposure.
Once you earnt “enough” money, then you may find some sporting ethics, morality or integrity. When you are hungry, nasty and obsessed though - nope.
Guys like Like and George are “nice”, well brought up middle class boys. Guys like Max and Lewis are psychopaths who want to put a fking axe through your head and they don’t care. Mentally - it’s a different world.

I am sorry, mate, but that’s a pretty depressing outlook on life.

Agreed, I think that's a very cynical outlook. There are a lot of sports professionals who train incredibly hard, and have dedicated years of their life to their chosen sport, and are then tarred with being "just in it for the money". They'll want to win, and bend the rules where they can, but also have integrity - after all, you have to live with yourself and your decisions. I don't think I've ever seen Hamilton in that same light as alluded to above.

There are many professional sports ppl like that yes. They just don’t earn very much, or earn much for their employers and/or sponsors. They aren’t headline news, front and rear pages. They don’t win global elite championships and events.
The obvious rejoinder to that is Federa, the modern sporting gentleman. You ever watch Federa though? He was utterly ruthless in the application of his skill to humiliate opponents. Federa never just beat them, he humiliated them and he used that as part of his arsenal in ensuring his dominance. Nadal and Novak learnt that to first beat him, they had to refuse to be humiliated, then fight fire with fire.
You see that as depressing and cynical, I don’t. I don’t even see it as “bad” per se. It just is what it is. And as Wiggo once said: “it’s only bloody sport”.

Edited by DeejRC on Monday 1st July 14:06

[PhilAsia]

DeejRC said:

RemarkLima said:

Roofless Toothless said:

DeejRC said:

You have missed the entire pt though. There is no such thing as
“Sporting integrity” in professional sports. There is only earning the money. That comes from either winning, or ensuring exposure.
Once you earnt “enough” money, then you may find some sporting ethics, morality or integrity. When you are hungry, nasty and obsessed though - nope.
Guys like Like and George are “nice”, well brought up middle class boys. Guys like Max and Lewis are psychopaths who want to put a fking axe through your head and they don’t care. Mentally - it’s a different world.

I am sorry, mate, but that’s a pretty depressing outlook on life.

Agreed, I think that's a very cynical outlook. There are a lot of sports professionals who train incredibly hard, and have dedicated years of their life to their chosen sport, and are then tarred with being "just in it for the money". They'll want to win, and bend the rules where they can, but also have integrity - after all, you have to live with yourself and your decisions. I don't think I've ever seen Hamilton in that same light as alluded to above.

There are many professional sports ppl like that yes. They just don’t earn very much, or earn much for their employers and/or sponsors. They aren’t headline news, front and rear pages. They don’t win global elite championships and events.
The obvious rejoinder to that is Federa, the modern sporting gentleman. You ever watch Federa though? He was utterly ruthless in the application of his skill to humiliate opponents. Federa never just beat them, he humiliated them and he used that as part of his arsenal in ensuring his dominance. Nadal and Novak learnt that to first beat him, they had to refuse to be humiliated, then fight fire with fire.

Efren "Bata" Reyes, the finest ever pool/billiards player has renowned sporting integrity. Never known to cheat and respects those that also do not cheat, as I am witness to it.

Manny "Pacman" Pacquio is not known cheat either too IIRC...

[Zetec-S]

Great race for the neutral, I had my doubts up until now whether Lando had the pace to challenge Max, it always felt like Max was holding something in reserve, even as recently as in Spain. Well it appears that he has been holding something back in reserve, it's just not pace...

Shame as I was starting to come round to him. Early '22 he went wheel to wheel with Charles on a few occasions and it was all clean, I thought that by bagging a WDC it had matured him, but it seems that the last 2 years of (car) dominance means he's not really had to work on his racecraft. Really hope that Merc poach him for 2026, I think coming away from RB/Horner/Marko and under the stewardship of someone like Toto would work wonders for him.

Also, congrats to George, didn't have the outright pace to challenge but kept it clean and error free and was there to pick up the pieces. Really pleased for him

[spikyone]

DeejRC said:

There are many professional sports ppl like that yes. They just don’t earn very much, or earn much for their employers and/or sponsors. They aren’t headline news, front and rear pages. They don’t win global elite championships and events.
The obvious rejoinder to that is Federa, the modern sporting gentleman. You ever watch Federa though? He was utterly ruthless in the application of his skill to humiliate opponents. Federa never just beat them, he humiliated them and he used that as part of his arsenal in ensuring his dominance. Nadal and Novak learnt that to first beat him, they had to refuse to be humiliated, then fight fire with fire.
You see that as depressing and cynical, I don’t. I don’t even see it as “bad” per se. It just is what it is. And as Wiggo once said: “it’s only bloody sport”.

Edited by DeejRC on Monday 1st July 14:06

Still nonsense. Federer never went outside the rules to make sure he didn't lose. As far as I can remember, neither did Nadal nor Djokovic. There are plenty of other sports people that win and lose with integrity. The vast majority of them, in fact.

What we're talking about with the likes of Schumacher and Verstappen is that they hate losing to the point that they would rather break the rules than finish second.

[RemarkLima]

spikyone said:

DeejRC said:

There are many professional sports ppl like that yes. They just don’t earn very much, or earn much for their employers and/or sponsors. They aren’t headline news, front and rear pages. They don’t win global elite championships and events.
The obvious rejoinder to that is Federa, the modern sporting gentleman. You ever watch Federa though? He was utterly ruthless in the application of his skill to humiliate opponents. Federa never just beat them, he humiliated them and he used that as part of his arsenal in ensuring his dominance. Nadal and Novak learnt that to first beat him, they had to refuse to be humiliated, then fight fire with fire.
You see that as depressing and cynical, I don’t. I don’t even see it as “bad” per se. It just is what it is. And as Wiggo once said: “it’s only bloody sport”.

Edited by DeejRC on Monday 1st July 14:06

Still nonsense. Federer never went outside the rules to make sure he didn't lose. As far as I can remember, neither did Nadal nor Djokovic. There are plenty of other sports people that win and lose with integrity. The vast majority of them, in fact.

What we're talking about with the likes of Schumacher and Verstappen is that they hate losing to the point that they would rather break the rules than finish second.

Agreed - Federer played with grace and skill, and applied that skill to great effect. Equally, Nadal, Djokovic have been amazing to watch and have not cheated. You see bad sportsmanship in tennis by doing things like delaying serves, trying to upset a competitors pace, calling a challenge on a clearly out ball to buy time, and worse arguing with the umpire and brushing out ball marks - this is seen with some other tennis players but not the top flight at all. And I don't think Federer "humiliated" his opponents - he just won fair and square. And when he didn't and Nadal, or Djokovic won, he shook their hand and went to the next open to try again.

I just don't see what DeejRC is seeing in tennis, nor in the Olympics, not many other sports - I do see a lot of hard work and because of that, a lot of respect and integrity.

[isaldiri]

RemarkLima said:

Agreed - Federer played with grace and skill, and applied that skill to great effect. Equally, Nadal, Djokovic have been amazing to watch and have not cheated. You see bad sportsmanship in tennis by doing things like delaying serves, trying to upset a competitors pace, calling a challenge on a clearly out ball to buy time, and worse arguing with the umpire and brushing out ball marks - this is seen with some other tennis players but not the top flight at all. And I don't think Federer "humiliated" his opponents - he just won fair and square. And when he didn't and Nadal, or Djokovic won, he shook their hand and went to the next open to try again.

I just don't see what DeejRC is seeing in tennis, nor in the Olympics, not many other sports - I do see a lot of hard work and because of that, a lot of respect and integrity.

Er…..you must somehow have missed Nadal taking ages between serves, clearly intentionally do as it was much more prevalent when he wasn’t ahead or Djokovic being infamous for taking mystery injury time outs…..

[spikyone]

isaldiri said:

RemarkLima said:

Agreed - Federer played with grace and skill, and applied that skill to great effect. Equally, Nadal, Djokovic have been amazing to watch and have not cheated. You see bad sportsmanship in tennis by doing things like delaying serves, trying to upset a competitors pace, calling a challenge on a clearly out ball to buy time, and worse arguing with the umpire and brushing out ball marks - this is seen with some other tennis players but not the top flight at all. And I don't think Federer "humiliated" his opponents - he just won fair and square. And when he didn't and Nadal, or Djokovic won, he shook their hand and went to the next open to try again.

I just don't see what DeejRC is seeing in tennis, nor in the Olympics, not many other sports - I do see a lot of hard work and because of that, a lot of respect and integrity.

Er…..you must somehow have missed Nadal taking ages between serves, clearly intentionally do as it was much more prevalent when he wasn’t ahead or Djokovic being infamous for taking mystery injury time outs…..

Those things you describe aren't crossing a line in the same way as Max and Schumacher. You're allowed to take your time serving, and to take time outs for treatment.

Motorsport is different to tennis and many other individual sports, in that it's very difficult to do something to actually impede or take out an opponent in other sports. So it's difficult to draw a true parallel. Looking within motorsport though, there have been a tiny number of drivers in history that behave in the way that DeejRC thinks is commonplace - which is why the same few names crop up and we all know exactly who they are.

[Teppic]

Bo_apex said:

Byker28i said:

Biggles Flies Undone said:

Bo_apex said:

Adrian W said:

Bo_apex said:

Biggles Flies Undone said:

I thought it was serious enough to have a think about a DSQ. That would have been a worthy punishment for the impact it had on Norris and the race as a whole.

Schumacher and Villeneuve collide at Jerez. Villeneuve went on to win the race.
Schumacher was DQ'd from the 1997 season for "causing a collision".

Hamilton punts Max into the wall at Silverstone, ending Max's race. (50G impact apparently)
Hamilton receives a 5 second penalty for "causing a collision".


FIA seems perfectly consistent

You're trying to rewrite history, Hamilton didn't punt Verstappen into the wall, neither driver backed out, the stewards felt that Hamilton was slightly more at fault and could still continue so gave him a small penalty, nicectry though

"Slightly" more British driver at British GP

Brilliant

That was a racing incident all day long. This was simply a case of dirty driving. Dirty driving that we witnessed multiple times on previous laps as well.

and again, onboard footage showed max tried to squeeze Lewis out, showed the steering wheel move, causing them to touch.
Same old max

Did you notice how Ham gave LeC more room at the same corner & position later that race

Any chance Ham knew exactly what would happen with that particular contact point at that particular corner ?



Re: Norris. Good for the Silverstone victory

Other way round. LeClerc gave Hamilton room, because Charles was sensible enough to realise that rival F1 cars don't suddenly cease to exist when you turn in, whereas Max turned in expecting Hamilton to vanish in to thin air.

[Blib]

Lando now has the measure of Max.

I was warming to Verstappen. However, he's proven time and time again that he is incapable of racing fairly, wheel-to-wheel.

Such a shame

[isaldiri]

spikyone said:

Those things you describe aren't crossing a line in the same way as Max and Schumacher. You're allowed to take your time serving, and to take time outs for treatment..

I was addressing this part of the post I had replied to…

“ You see bad sportsmanship in tennis by doing things like delaying serves, trying to upset a competitors pace, calling a challenge on a clearly out ball to buy time, and worse arguing with the umpire and brushing out ball marks - this is seen with some other tennis players but not the top flight at all. ”

[Bo_apex]

Teppic said:

Bo_apex said:

Byker28i said:

Biggles Flies Undone said:

Bo_apex said:

Adrian W said:

Bo_apex said:

Biggles Flies Undone said:

I thought it was serious enough to have a think about a DSQ. That would have been a worthy punishment for the impact it had on Norris and the race as a whole.

Schumacher and Villeneuve collide at Jerez. Villeneuve went on to win the race.
Schumacher was DQ'd from the 1997 season for "causing a collision".

Hamilton punts Max into the wall at Silverstone, ending Max's race. (50G impact apparently)
Hamilton receives a 5 second penalty for "causing a collision".


FIA seems perfectly consistent

You're trying to rewrite history, Hamilton didn't punt Verstappen into the wall, neither driver backed out, the stewards felt that Hamilton was slightly more at fault and could still continue so gave him a small penalty, nicectry though

"Slightly" more British driver at British GP

Brilliant

That was a racing incident all day long. This was simply a case of dirty driving. Dirty driving that we witnessed multiple times on previous laps as well.

and again, onboard footage showed max tried to squeeze Lewis out, showed the steering wheel move, causing them to touch.
Same old max

Did you notice how Ham gave LeC more room at the same corner & position later that race

Any chance Ham knew exactly what would happen with that particular contact point at that particular corner ?



Re: Norris. Good for the Silverstone victory

Other way round. LeClerc gave Hamilton room, because Charles was sensible enough to realise that rival F1 cars don't suddenly cease to exist when you turn in, whereas Max turned in expecting Hamilton to vanish in to thin air.

worth comparing the distance from inside kerb to Ham's car on both occassions.

[PlywoodPascal]

Bo_apex said:

worth comparing the distance from inside kerb to Ham's car on both occassions.

worth comparing the distance from the car on the outside to the inside of the track at the turn in point, because that determines where the apex of the corner is taken, and thus the distance between the car and the inside of the corner once the corner is entered.

Hamilton was forced so far over to the inside by Verstappen that the turn in point and the apex became coincident. Leclerc did not pinch him (or himself) so tight, so the turn in point was further out, thus the apex later (and thus distance to inside of track decreased the first part of the corner, rather than increased as it would with a very early apex).

[RemarkLima]

isaldiri said:

Er…..you must somehow have missed Nadal taking ages between serves, clearly intentionally do as it was much more prevalent when he wasn’t ahead or Djokovic being infamous for taking mystery injury time outs…..

Good point Nadal was just a PITA, farting around with his hair... And then that introduced the countdown timer to serve!

Djokovic did the same to Alcaraz last year (IIRC), trying to break the pace of the game - which was commented on as being unsportman-like, so not cheating, but poor form. However, the point that these people as homicidal sociopaths, who would crush you to get their goal without flinching, I just do not see.

[Bo_apex]

PlywoodPascal said:

Bo_apex said:

worth comparing the distance from inside kerb to Ham's car on both occassions.

worth comparing the distance from the car on the outside to the inside of the track at the turn in point, because that determines where the apex of the corner is taken, and thus the distance between the car and the inside of the corner once the corner is entered.

Hamilton was forced so far over to the inside by Verstappen that the turn in point and the apex became coincident. Leclerc did not pinch him (or himself) so tight, so the turn in point was further out, thus the apex later (and thus distance to inside of track decreased the first part of the corner, rather than increased as it would with a very early apex).

Ham chose a tighter inside line when against LeClerc.


It's all hard racing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpT56Ui38Xs&t=...

[Scolmore]

Bo_apex said:

Ham chose a tighter inside line when against LeClerc.


It's all hard racing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpT56Ui38Xs&t=...

A wider line is a good idea when passing Verstappen - ensures you have somewhere to swerve when he inevitably tries to make contact with you!

[Basil Brush]

honda_exige said:

"Predominantly" ? Slightly

"Predominantly" = Slightly More.

Why am I bothering?!

[bobbo89]

Blib said:

Lando now has the measure of Max.

I was warming to Verstappen. However, he's proven time and time again that he is incapable of racing fairly, wheel-to-wheel.

Such a shame

Yep. I was starting to think that with his desperation to bag his first world championship out of the way that he'd matured but clearly not.

As you say it's a shame, even more so when you consider how pally he is with Lando, wiffs of Hamilton/Rosberg about it all...

[HardtopManual]

Bo_apex said:

Schumacher and Villeneuve collide at Jerez. Villeneuve went on to win the race.
Schumacher was DQ'd from the 1997 season for "causing a collision".

Hamilton punts Max into the wall at Silverstone, ending Max's race. (50G impact apparently)
Hamilton receives a 5 second penalty for "causing a collision".

FIA seems perfectly consistent

Every time I read this sort of dross, I'm glad to be blessed with the mental faculties to know the difference between these two incidents. I find it quite unbelievable that someone with enough brainpower to log in to a website and type some sentences struggles with it.