Jamie Chadwick - First competitive female driver in F1?
Discussion
antspants said:
Personally I think a much more realistic expectation is to see in 5, 7, 10 years time whether the introduction of the W series and it's F1 exposure has increased the number of girls entering motorsport at a young grassroots level, and has that led to those women having access to increased levels of support, training, sponsorship etc. Surely the measure of its (and the drivers) success or failure, shouldn't just be the short term view of can this years W series winner get an F1 drive, but actually it's today's winners paving the way for the rest?
Indeed, and that ought to be data that is readily available for the FIA to monitor. Milkyway said:
leef44 said:
df76 said:
Definitely an interesting moment in her career. I don't think she could do another W Series season (if she has any real single seater ambitions). But we really don't know how competitive her rivals has been over this year. Given what Abbi Pulling did at the weekend, it suggests that it's not the strongest field. Moving to FIA F3 and getting blown away would be awkward, but I hope she can step up and make it happen. W Series can't just become a dumping ground for ladies that haven't quite cut it and then have run out of budget.
The point of the W series is to give them that first step to open doors. She has achieved that so she should make something of it.Season 2: Win again = 30 Total ( 2nd = +12)
Combine with Free practices sessions: +10 (max)
Get Superlicence.
( Risky... But achievable)
Sensible approach as essentially the encouragement is that the winner takes the prize money & licence points and moves on to another series to forward their career / experience, but if they want to return then they have to re-earn the licence points. She also said that it was too early to make a decision on what options would / wouldn't be open / available next year and that she'd consider what would be best with her team and that all avenues including the various "F" feeder formulas would be part of the decision making process.
antspants said:
Personally I think a much more realistic expectation is to see in 5, 7, 10 years time whether the introduction of the W series and it's F1 exposure has increased the number of girls entering motorsport at a young grassroots level, and has that led to those women having access to increased levels of support, training, sponsorship etc. Surely the measure of its (and the drivers) success or failure, shouldn't just be the short term view of can this years W series winner get an F1 drive, but actually it's today's winners paving the way for the rest?
There were six women racing at Le Mans this year… GTE or LMP2 would be fairly accessible for Chadwick and, IMHO, a far more rewarding and enjoyable career. I’d be amazed if we ever saw her start an F1 race.Why F1 is seen as the only target is beyond me, there are plenty of opportunities for women in motorsport beyond F1 but focusing on one series, the most obvious and difficult to reach, is ultimately very blinkered. If Chadwick can’t get into a competitive F3 seat, let alone F2, what hope does the rest of the W Series grid have? I hope they all look beyond single seaters and end up in good GT/Touring car seats.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 26th October 22:07
Milkyway said:
Ok thanks... didn’t realise that she would have to surrender her points.
So no way you could use the W series as the sole route then
Makes sense... I suppose.
I only recently learned that too. It does make sense as it kind of nudges the champion to go on to tougher challenges...So no way you could use the W series as the sole route then
Makes sense... I suppose.
But it's still difficult to know where to go to next. F3 is a big step up but it's the obvious next step. I don't really understand why FW isn't set to be a similar challenge to F3, with closer spec cars. I'm pretty sure the women would step up to the level if they didn't have a more comfortable option - and then they could feed in to F3 and be on a more level playing field. It's obviously easier to populate a new motorsport series for women if the bar is set low, but then it quickly loses purpose. Perhaps worse, it takes women away from male racers which is itself a problem - they should be racing males form 5 years upwards as they need to understand the difference in approach in terms of mentality, male strengths and weaknesses as racers.
I think about this each time FW becomes a topic of debate. I do completely understand the purpose and I almost want to say I support the logic. But then part of me thinks that introducing segregation in to a previously unsegregated sport - even with the best intentions, ultimately can't be a positive thing. It can do some good, there will be examples of it working as intended.. but in the end it's leveraging segregation to achieve a more comfortable situation today, with no obvious benefit for the future of those that opt for it. A bit like all forms of segregation that made things easier at the time but held back progress significantly as a result.
Tricky one!
TheDeuce said:
I think about this each time FW becomes a topic of debate. I do completely understand the purpose and I almost want to say I support the logic. But then part of me thinks that introducing segregation in to a previously unsegregated sport - even with the best intentions, ultimately can't be a positive thing. It can do some good, there will be examples of it working as intended.. but in the end it's leveraging segregation to achieve a more comfortable situation today, with no obvious benefit for the future of those that opt for it. A bit like all forms of segregation that made things easier at the time but held back progress significantly as a result.
Tricky one!
Is the long term aim to have more women racing in an unsegregated sport, or in 5-10 years time will we have a W series F1, 2 and 3? As the popularity of women's sport continues to grow along with the money involved, will women need to be racing against men to be seen as successful racing drivers? Tricky one!
antspants said:
TheDeuce said:
I think about this each time FW becomes a topic of debate. I do completely understand the purpose and I almost want to say I support the logic. But then part of me thinks that introducing segregation in to a previously unsegregated sport - even with the best intentions, ultimately can't be a positive thing. It can do some good, there will be examples of it working as intended.. but in the end it's leveraging segregation to achieve a more comfortable situation today, with no obvious benefit for the future of those that opt for it. A bit like all forms of segregation that made things easier at the time but held back progress significantly as a result.
Tricky one!
Is the long term aim to have more women racing in an unsegregated sport, or in 5-10 years time will we have a W series F1, 2 and 3? As the popularity of women's sport continues to grow along with the money involved, will women need to be racing against men to be seen as successful racing drivers? Tricky one!
TheDeuce said:
I think about this each time FW becomes a topic of debate. I do completely understand the purpose and I almost want to say I support the logic. But then part of me thinks that introducing segregation in to a previously unsegregated sport - even with the best intentions, ultimately can't be a positive thing. It can do some good, there will be examples of it working as intended.. but in the end it's leveraging segregation to achieve a more comfortable situation today, with no obvious benefit for the future of those that opt for it. A bit like all forms of segregation that made things easier at the time but held back progress significantly as a result.
Tricky one!
I agree entirely, segregation is not the way to go.Tricky one!
Look at equestrian competition and it is clear that women largely compete on an equal basis as men, and in many disciplines are just as successful. Thoroughbreds are monsters - if women hadn't established themselves on an equal footing to men, I have no doubt that the party line would be that the physical demands were too great.
Instead, girls quite possibly outnumber boys in younger participation - pony club, eventing, showjumping etc. So they have numbers, and guess what, a few remarkably talented individuals rise to the very top alongside the few remarkably talented men.
The challenge is entirely down to participation, at young ages and then continuing through the lower classes. Segregation is definitely not the answer.
TheDeuce said:
I only recently learned that too. It does make sense as it kind of nudges the champion to go on to tougher challenges...
But it's still difficult to know where to go to next. F3 is a big step up but it's the obvious next step. I don't really understand why FW isn't set to be a similar challenge to F3, with closer spec cars. I'm pretty sure the women would step up to the level if they didn't have a more comfortable option - and then they could feed in to F3 and be on a more level playing field. It's obviously easier to populate a new motorsport series for women if the bar is set low, but then it quickly loses purpose. Perhaps worse, it takes women away from male racers which is itself a problem - they should be racing males form 5 years upwards as they need to understand the difference in approach in terms of mentality, male strengths and weaknesses as racers.
I think about this each time FW becomes a topic of debate. I do completely understand the purpose and I almost want to say I support the logic. But then part of me thinks that introducing segregation in to a previously unsegregated sport - even with the best intentions, ultimately can't be a positive thing. It can do some good, there will be examples of it working as intended.. but in the end it's leveraging segregation to achieve a more comfortable situation today, with no obvious benefit for the future of those that opt for it. A bit like all forms of segregation that made things easier at the time but held back progress significantly as a result.
Tricky one!
Presumably each step up in car capability brings increased costs? Since the idea of W-Series is to give women a chance to race where they would not have otherwise been able to secure funding, it presumably has to be fairly conscious of costs compared with F3. But it's still difficult to know where to go to next. F3 is a big step up but it's the obvious next step. I don't really understand why FW isn't set to be a similar challenge to F3, with closer spec cars. I'm pretty sure the women would step up to the level if they didn't have a more comfortable option - and then they could feed in to F3 and be on a more level playing field. It's obviously easier to populate a new motorsport series for women if the bar is set low, but then it quickly loses purpose. Perhaps worse, it takes women away from male racers which is itself a problem - they should be racing males form 5 years upwards as they need to understand the difference in approach in terms of mentality, male strengths and weaknesses as racers.
I think about this each time FW becomes a topic of debate. I do completely understand the purpose and I almost want to say I support the logic. But then part of me thinks that introducing segregation in to a previously unsegregated sport - even with the best intentions, ultimately can't be a positive thing. It can do some good, there will be examples of it working as intended.. but in the end it's leveraging segregation to achieve a more comfortable situation today, with no obvious benefit for the future of those that opt for it. A bit like all forms of segregation that made things easier at the time but held back progress significantly as a result.
Tricky one!
I perceive a paucity of women coming through at the moment - hence having late-20s drivers in the series when F4 is almost all teenagers. If they are having to pad out the field and you had a big step up it might highlight the differences significantly. So you'd have someone like Jamie Chadwick (who's pretty good) pulling clean away from the people towards the back of the grid who were really only there to make up the numbers and might be struggling to keep an F3 car in a straight line. With a smaller step up from the cars they have previously raced, I would imagine it makes it easier for the less-talented or less-experienced individuals to keep up with the front runners.
Flooble said:
Milkyway said:
I reckon that over the next few years, all the F4 Championships will become a feeder for the W series.
I feel sorry for the male winners of the Championships, that's quite a sacrifice to get a drive.Oh, wait, you don't mean just the winners get a drive, do you
Sacrifices may have to be made...but that’s another series.
Sorry, but this may offend the ‘older’ drivers.
Will there be a similar ‘M’ series though... for equality reasons.
Edited by Milkyway on Wednesday 27th October 10:29
Milkyway said:
Will there be a similar ‘M’ series though... for equality reasons.
For equality reasons both sexes have always been welcome in formula racing... Actually that's probably not true, it probably never was a decision made for the sake of equality, the sports founders simply weren't minded to be overtly sexist so they didn't care to stipulate who could enter based on sex, race, whatever. Which is how it should be.Edited by Milkyway on Wednesday 27th October 10:29
Headline on the BBC red button sport section......."Chadwick 'closer' to Formula 1 dream ".........."Jamie Chadwick believes her dream of racing
in Formula 1 is a 'step closer' after winning her second consecutive W series championship ".
Much that many would like a British female in Formula 1 , it just seems unlikely ....
in Formula 1 is a 'step closer' after winning her second consecutive W series championship ".
Much that many would like a British female in Formula 1 , it just seems unlikely ....
Reclusive said:
Headline on the BBC red button sport section......."Chadwick 'closer' to Formula 1 dream ".........."Jamie Chadwick believes her dream of racing
in Formula 1 is a 'step closer' after winning her second consecutive W series championship ".
Much that many would like a British female in Formula 1 , it just seems unlikely ....
Susie Wolff 2014...FP1in Formula 1 is a 'step closer' after winning her second consecutive W series championship ".
Much that many would like a British female in Formula 1 , it just seems unlikely ....
( Hopefully won’t have to wait another seven years)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AKMZ613DKt0
Edited by Milkyway on Wednesday 27th October 13:53
Reclusive said:
Headline on the BBC red button sport section......."Chadwick 'closer' to Formula 1 dream ".........."Jamie Chadwick believes her dream of racing
in Formula 1 is a 'step closer' after winning her second consecutive W series championship ".
Much that many would like a British female in Formula 1 , it just seems unlikely ....
It does seem unlikely. The one big positive for me is that she has beaten the field in W twice, improving the second time too. That suggests that however good she can be, she is at least good enough to move upwards 'somewhere' from W. Whether she's good enough for FIA F3 is quite another matter! But she has at least fairly confidently outgrown W.in Formula 1 is a 'step closer' after winning her second consecutive W series championship ".
Much that many would like a British female in Formula 1 , it just seems unlikely ....
Cold said:
Reclusive said:
My memory isn't that short .
Just how many races did she start ?....
About the same number as F1 driver Carmen Jorda. Just how many races did she start ?....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lk3EW7rgaws
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