A gearbox related confession
Discussion
Recently I have had the good fortune to drive a few new cars, many of which have had 'paddleshift' gearboxes rather than a manual. Now, not so long ago I would have fought the corner for having a manual box in a sports car (I'm quite happy to have auto in barges/ wafters) but I think I'm starting to like having paddles to change gear.
My first twinge of affection was in an R8 V10. I liked the way it changed ratio with lightening speed, but more importantly it made hooning along unfamiliar Dales roads a pleasure as I braked into unknown bends and realised that two down changes would be preferable to one. Both hands on the wheel, on the brakes, concentrating on the drive, auto blips on the down shift, into the bend, peel out and we're off again....bang, bang, bang.
More recently I was at the other end of the spectrum in a Fiat 500 with a similar paddle set up. OK, so it's not as fast on the change and it is less satisfying to use than the Audi (unsurprisingly), but yet again it came into its own on a run to Goodwood this morning when having some fun on the twisties. Lifting off saw a relatively smooth change and I rather enjoyed it.
I'm not sure that it works so well in town, but I think I'm a convert for B roads and on the track. That said, I'm quite happy that my Chimaera isn't an automatic.....maybe I need to see a doctor?
My first twinge of affection was in an R8 V10. I liked the way it changed ratio with lightening speed, but more importantly it made hooning along unfamiliar Dales roads a pleasure as I braked into unknown bends and realised that two down changes would be preferable to one. Both hands on the wheel, on the brakes, concentrating on the drive, auto blips on the down shift, into the bend, peel out and we're off again....bang, bang, bang.
More recently I was at the other end of the spectrum in a Fiat 500 with a similar paddle set up. OK, so it's not as fast on the change and it is less satisfying to use than the Audi (unsurprisingly), but yet again it came into its own on a run to Goodwood this morning when having some fun on the twisties. Lifting off saw a relatively smooth change and I rather enjoyed it.
I'm not sure that it works so well in town, but I think I'm a convert for B roads and on the track. That said, I'm quite happy that my Chimaera isn't an automatic.....maybe I need to see a doctor?
Yes things have come on a long way since the hideous 'Smart automated manual' days. I love changing gear in the Dodge but the ability to keep both hands on the steering wheel is superb for tracks and twisty roads, especially with today's trend for shorter gears. Zinging up and down the revs in cars geared for acceleration becomes a real pleasure. Key changes for me have been:
- Holding on to gears for longer i.e. until the red line
- Changing quicker and at the exact moment you ask
- Using an automatic rather than an automated manual gearbox
- Speeding up the switch from first to reverse for parking manoeuvres
Edited by TheStoat on Monday 13th December 13:37
TheStoat said:
- Using an automatic rather than an automated manual gearbox
I wonder if a uniform pattern will emerge?
Some go into neutral with a simultaneous pull on bot levers, and some don't
Some need a button pressed to go into 1st
Some need a button pressed to go into reverse
Some paddles move with the wheel (awkward for 1st gear junctions)
Some paddles are fixed (awkward for fast B roads)
Some paddles have the 'up & down' the wrong way
Still, the right box attached to the right car can be a lot of fun
Some go into neutral with a simultaneous pull on bot levers, and some don't
Some need a button pressed to go into 1st
Some need a button pressed to go into reverse
Some paddles move with the wheel (awkward for 1st gear junctions)
Some paddles are fixed (awkward for fast B roads)
Some paddles have the 'up & down' the wrong way
Still, the right box attached to the right car can be a lot of fun
One thing I always wondered about was rather than setting the gearbox in a specific mode could you take the driver input to set the gearshift speed.
eg. if you flick the paddle back really fast get a flat out shift, if you're making a slower more deliberate pull on the paddle focus on a smooth shift.
I'd guess modern systems judge it based on throttle and revs, but seemed like a good solution to some complaints I'd read.
eg. if you flick the paddle back really fast get a flat out shift, if you're making a slower more deliberate pull on the paddle focus on a smooth shift.
I'd guess modern systems judge it based on throttle and revs, but seemed like a good solution to some complaints I'd read.
I'd never used them until I bought an M3, and I absolutely love them now!! I find them really jerky when the 'box is warming up but after 10-15 minutes of low revs, it changes quicker than I ever could and, like you say, is so nice to be able to go into a corner and shift to get the appropriate exit speed. They do perform better at higher revs though, if the box is in full sport, it lags a little at anything below 4k, but is sweet as a nut above that (although that's probably jsut me getting used to it still!)
Definitely be looking at these for future car purchases!!
One question about them (only had the M3 a week) - are you supposed to lift off when changing and then back on when the new gears engaged, or keep your foot down? I've been doing the former until I'm used to it, but not sure if this is the 'right' way, or even if there is a 'right' way!
Definitely be looking at these for future car purchases!!
One question about them (only had the M3 a week) - are you supposed to lift off when changing and then back on when the new gears engaged, or keep your foot down? I've been doing the former until I'm used to it, but not sure if this is the 'right' way, or even if there is a 'right' way!
Having had the pleasure of a brand new Boxster S with PDK for a few days last week, I have to say, the automated manual box is quite incredibly sophisticated. But just not for me.
The gearchanges are lightning quick and incredibly smooth, and yes, having the controls on the steering wheel is quite convenient. But I really missed the involvement of changing gear with my right hand and exercising my left leg. I don't doubt that the new technology makes the car a lot quicker and a lot more frugal (and much easier in traffic jams). I can also compare the Porsche PDK box to VWs DSG as we also have a Golf Ed30 DSG- the Porsche box is much, much better (but the "paddles" are all wrong- since rectified on the 911).
Maybe I'm an old trditionalist; maybe it would take me a lot longer to get used to the double clutch boxes- but 95% of the time, you don't even need the flappy paddles to change gear, the electronics are good enough almost all of the time- certainly in the Golf- I've only found the paddles useful when driving in the mountains.
If I were to buy a new car now, I'd be plumping for the manual, not automatic variety.
The gearchanges are lightning quick and incredibly smooth, and yes, having the controls on the steering wheel is quite convenient. But I really missed the involvement of changing gear with my right hand and exercising my left leg. I don't doubt that the new technology makes the car a lot quicker and a lot more frugal (and much easier in traffic jams). I can also compare the Porsche PDK box to VWs DSG as we also have a Golf Ed30 DSG- the Porsche box is much, much better (but the "paddles" are all wrong- since rectified on the 911).
Maybe I'm an old trditionalist; maybe it would take me a lot longer to get used to the double clutch boxes- but 95% of the time, you don't even need the flappy paddles to change gear, the electronics are good enough almost all of the time- certainly in the Golf- I've only found the paddles useful when driving in the mountains.
If I were to buy a new car now, I'd be plumping for the manual, not automatic variety.
PHer in non-luddite shocker 
I still try to be pragmatic, paddle shift and proper manual both have their draws and disadvantages, but generally it depends on the specific application to know which is preferable.
Having said that, I very much like the F430 paddle shift, but I still rue the demise of the open gate shifter. Always a pleasure, even in the 550 where I suspect it would bear a strong resemblance to a Land Rover LT77 if it weren't for the bit of metal guiding the stick around!
I still try to be pragmatic, paddle shift and proper manual both have their draws and disadvantages, but generally it depends on the specific application to know which is preferable.
Having said that, I very much like the F430 paddle shift, but I still rue the demise of the open gate shifter. Always a pleasure, even in the 550 where I suspect it would bear a strong resemblance to a Land Rover LT77 if it weren't for the bit of metal guiding the stick around!
For a track car I think you'd be mad to specify a manual.
For a luxury car I think you'd be mad to specify a manual.
For a car you want to enjoy interacting with you'd be mad to not specify a manual. A heel and toe down change puts a smile on my face every time I get it spot on. On my daily commute there is only a couple of nice well-sighted corners I can really enjoy and only a couple of places I can accelerate fully though several gears. Compare this to the opportunities for a good heel and toe, there must be at least 20.
For a luxury car I think you'd be mad to specify a manual.
For a car you want to enjoy interacting with you'd be mad to not specify a manual. A heel and toe down change puts a smile on my face every time I get it spot on. On my daily commute there is only a couple of nice well-sighted corners I can really enjoy and only a couple of places I can accelerate fully though several gears. Compare this to the opportunities for a good heel and toe, there must be at least 20.
Edited by alock on Tuesday 14th December 10:29
Can i add something from personal experience, which is a paddleshift box feels great if you have a fleeting relationship with it, but the longer you drive any particular car, and get used to it's speed and performance etc, the more you miss the interaction of a proper manual box.
So for journo's etc, borrow an R8, take it for a blast for a couple of days etc the paddleshift makes it easier and safer to feel "on terms" with the car quickly. BUT, keep the car for '000s of miles or a few years, and you start to wish you had a stick!!
So for journo's etc, borrow an R8, take it for a blast for a couple of days etc the paddleshift makes it easier and safer to feel "on terms" with the car quickly. BUT, keep the car for '000s of miles or a few years, and you start to wish you had a stick!!
Max_Torque said:
alock said:
For a luxury car I think you'd be mad to specify a manual.
I've got the BMW approved used car system trying to source me a manual 335i tourer at the moment, apparently i'm the only person in the UK who's ever asked for one......... ;-)Max_Torque said:
alock said:
For a luxury car I think you'd be mad to specify a manual.
I've got the BMW approved used car system trying to source me a manual 335i tourer at the moment, apparently i'm the only person in the UK who's ever asked for one......... ;-)
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