Near miss with a lorry this morning
Discussion
Looking for thoughts on who was to blame for this near collision.
The setting is a dual carriage way which has a slip road going all the way from one junction to the next – about half a mile creating a 3rd lane for the duration. However, if you were on the main road passing both junctions, you wouldn’t dream of moving into this new lane 1 for the few hundred yards where the markings change. It is effectively 2 slip roads joined up, one on then one off.
I was coming down the slip road from the first junction, and leaving at the second so I remained in the left hand lane. As I drew level with the main carriageway there was a lorry on the main carriageway/lane2 going slightly slower than I was. (His 56 mph versus my 65mph at a guess.) As I was starting to pass he moved left causing me to brake sharply to avoid a collision.
We had “a chat” when we both subsequently stopped at the roundabout at the top of the second slip road.
His version: I was overtaking on the left. He didn’t see me when he checked his mirror but he was indicating left so it was my fault.
My version: I never actually left the slip road so I wasn’t undertaking. I just happened to be moving slightly faster than the lorry. He didn’t observe correctly and shouldn’t have moved into my lane as it wasn’t clear.
I haven’t posted here before but don't worry - I’ve read often enough to know I’m assured of intelligent, well reasoned arguments and a fair hearing. Over to you...
The setting is a dual carriage way which has a slip road going all the way from one junction to the next – about half a mile creating a 3rd lane for the duration. However, if you were on the main road passing both junctions, you wouldn’t dream of moving into this new lane 1 for the few hundred yards where the markings change. It is effectively 2 slip roads joined up, one on then one off.
I was coming down the slip road from the first junction, and leaving at the second so I remained in the left hand lane. As I drew level with the main carriageway there was a lorry on the main carriageway/lane2 going slightly slower than I was. (His 56 mph versus my 65mph at a guess.) As I was starting to pass he moved left causing me to brake sharply to avoid a collision.
We had “a chat” when we both subsequently stopped at the roundabout at the top of the second slip road.
His version: I was overtaking on the left. He didn’t see me when he checked his mirror but he was indicating left so it was my fault.
My version: I never actually left the slip road so I wasn’t undertaking. I just happened to be moving slightly faster than the lorry. He didn’t observe correctly and shouldn’t have moved into my lane as it wasn’t clear.
I haven’t posted here before but don't worry - I’ve read often enough to know I’m assured of intelligent, well reasoned arguments and a fair hearing. Over to you...
.
To answer a couple of points:
The road markings change for about the middle third where the slip road runs along side the dual carriage way. I guess that makes it technically 3 lanes. I believe that where the incident began the dotted line indicates it is actually a legit slip road at that point, though as I mentioned opinions vary!
He indicated and moved at the same time. I was aware of his presence and ready and able to brake when he did that.
The road markings change for about the middle third where the slip road runs along side the dual carriage way. I guess that makes it technically 3 lanes. I believe that where the incident began the dotted line indicates it is actually a legit slip road at that point, though as I mentioned opinions vary!
He indicated and moved at the same time. I was aware of his presence and ready and able to brake when he did that.
Edited by B u d g i e on Thursday 9th December 14:30
If the truck was on the dual carraigeway, in front of you and indicating left since he obviously wanted to leave on the off part of the slip road, then its your fault. Have a bit of patience and look out of your window. You must have been aware of the possibility that any vehicle on the main carriageway might want join the slip road part, so trying to dive up the inside just seems like a selfish and poorly planned manuovre.
trick3000tt said:
If the truck was on the dual carraigeway, in front of you and indicating left since he obviously wanted to leave on the off part of the slip road, then its your fault. Have a bit of patience and look out of your window. You must have been aware of the possibility that any vehicle on the main carriageway might want join the slip road part, so trying to dive up the inside just seems like a selfish and poorly planned manuovre.
Unfortunately this sounds pretty much correct to me OP, but it's an easy mistake to make.One this you always need to bear in mind is the size of the blindspots on trucks and other large vehicles. If you are pretty much anywhere along the left hand side then there is no way for the driver to see you, no matter how carefully he looks.
Mr Will said:
trick3000tt said:
If the truck was on the dual carraigeway, in front of you and indicating left since he obviously wanted to leave on the off part of the slip road, then its your fault. Have a bit of patience and look out of your window. You must have been aware of the possibility that any vehicle on the main carriageway might want join the slip road part, so trying to dive up the inside just seems like a selfish and poorly planned manuovre.
Unfortunately this sounds pretty much correct to me OP, but it's an easy mistake to make.One this you always need to bear in mind is the size of the blindspots on trucks and other large vehicles. If you are pretty much anywhere along the left hand side then there is no way for the driver to see you, no matter how carefully he looks.
trick3000tt said:
If the truck was on the dual carraigeway, in front of you and indicating left since he obviously wanted to leave on the off part of the slip road, then its your fault. Have a bit of patience and look out of your window. You must have been aware of the possibility that any vehicle on the main carriageway might want join the slip road part, so trying to dive up the inside just seems like a selfish and poorly planned manuovre.
The indicator came on at the same time he moved – “manoeuvre, signal, mirror” style. I wasn’t “diving up” the inside; I was simply maintaining my direction and speed in the same lane. We both happened to arrive at the point where the slip road and the main carriage way meet at the same time with me going very slightly faster. Luckily I was also looking out of the window and anticipating other road users’ potential actions, hence being able to take evasive action and not being dead right now.
Magic919 said:
Needs the obligatory link to Google maps to show the road.
+1Personally I'd say that it was the lorry driver who was most at fault. It is he who was initiating the manoeuvre so it should be down to him to make sure the lane is clear.
Imagine if the OP had said that he was inline with the back of the lorry, but travelling at the same speed. Yes you could say he was poorly positioned (as it seems he was anyway), but ultimately which side of the lorry he was on makes no difference. If he was on the left or the right, the lorry driver should be making sure the lane is clear before moving into it.
Slap on the wrist for the OP for being poorly positioned in the lorry's blindspot (though with the right mirrors should only be behind the lorry and not to the side), but mainly the lorry drivers fault. IMO.
Mazdarese said:
How can it be the OP's fault?! He's driving along in lane 1, and regardless of whether he's overtaking on the inside or not it doesn't mean the HGV can just merge into him.
Technically he's not though is he.He's driving down a slip road and is supposed to alter his speed to match that of the carriageway he is joining and filter in accordingly. The fact that the slip then becomes a part of the carriageway (albeit briefly) doesn't matter.
Roo said:
Mazdarese said:
How can it be the OP's fault?! He's driving along in lane 1, and regardless of whether he's overtaking on the inside or not it doesn't mean the HGV can just merge into him.
Technically he's not though is he.He's driving down a slip road and is supposed to alter his speed to match that of the carriageway he is joining and filter in accordingly. The fact that the slip then becomes a part of the carriageway (albeit briefly) doesn't matter.
B u d g i e said:
The indicator came on at the same time he moved – “manoeuvre, signal, mirror” style. I wasn’t “diving up” the inside; I was simply maintaining my direction and speed in the same lane. We both happened to arrive at the point where the slip road and the main carriage way meet at the same time with me going very slightly faster.
There's the problem I think. Rights or wrongs aside, it's best to avoid that situation IMO. Either speed up or slow down so that you're clear of the lorry when the roads come together.Magic919 said:
Needs the obligatory link to Google maps to show the road.
I'm charting new territory, here but try this link:http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&a...
It is on the A19 near Sunderland. I was joining from the A183 heading north and leaving on the A1231. I think I was still on the slip road part when we drew along side each other - zoom in for road markings. I was aware of potentially being in the lorry's blindspot - and had no plans to stay there - but there was no suggestion he was going to move over until he actually did.
Edited by B u d g i e on Thursday 9th December 15:13
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