Why does anyone 'need' a 4x4 for the snow/ice/cold weather?
Discussion
Not pointing fingers at PH in particular but have talked to a few colleagues in the UK who claim they 'need' a 4x4 because of the recent cold snap.
I tried explaining that a light FWD car, running winter tyres on skinny rims is probably a more effective tool for their needs than say a Cayenne Turbo but they weren't having any of it. Not only that but a relatively modern FWD hack as I described is statistically probably just as safe as a larger vehicle because active safety (ie avoiding an accident in the first place) is preferable to just smashing into other objects in a larger vehicle.
They just didn't seem to understand what I was getting at.
I tried explaining that a light FWD car, running winter tyres on skinny rims is probably a more effective tool for their needs than say a Cayenne Turbo but they weren't having any of it. Not only that but a relatively modern FWD hack as I described is statistically probably just as safe as a larger vehicle because active safety (ie avoiding an accident in the first place) is preferable to just smashing into other objects in a larger vehicle.
They just didn't seem to understand what I was getting at.
lost_boy said:
I agree you don't NEED a 4x4 but they do have their advantages, for example, you'd struggle with a small FWD average powered car in thick deep snow, where a 4x4 would power through it.
Less power is better and funny I lived at the top of a very steep hill and always managed to get up it. Maybe people need to refine their driving technique?I dont't think you "need" a 4x4. I have lived in Canada for years and have driven literally hundreds of thousands of miles on snow and ice, and have had RWD,FWD,AWD, and full SUV 4x4s. A good FWD with snow tires is easy to use in winter. For me personally, the least favourable is a RWD such as a 5 series BMW. Even with snow tyres, it was a bear to get moving in deep snow ( i had three E39s) and spent many a morning digging the things out. A big American sled such as an Olds Aurora was able to drag through most things.
Where you do have an advantage in a 4x4 is very deep snow. The height is very handy. I use a Cayenne with full snows and often drive across the Adirondacks in winter; it is practically unstoppable.
Certainly, a skilled driver can get through with most cars i they have winter tyres, but a good SUV is just a bit easier rather than a necessity. They are, however, crap on ice because of the weight and you have to be even more vigilant than in a smaller vehicle.
Where you do have an advantage in a 4x4 is very deep snow. The height is very handy. I use a Cayenne with full snows and often drive across the Adirondacks in winter; it is practically unstoppable.
Certainly, a skilled driver can get through with most cars i they have winter tyres, but a good SUV is just a bit easier rather than a necessity. They are, however, crap on ice because of the weight and you have to be even more vigilant than in a smaller vehicle.
RDMcG said:
I dont't think you "need" a 4x4. I have lived in Canada for years and have driven literally hundreds of thousands of miles on snow and ice, and have had RWD,FWD,AWD, and full SUV 4x4s. A good FWD with snow tires is easy to use in winter. For me personally, the least favourable is a RWD such as a 5 series BMW. Even with snow tyres, it was a bear to get moving in deep snow ( i had three E39s) and spent many a morning digging the things out. A big American sled such as an Olds Aurora was able to drag through most things.
Where you do have an advantage in a 4x4 is very deep snow. The height is very handy. I use a Cayenne with full snows and often drive across the Adirondacks in winter; it is practically unstoppable.
Certainly, a skilled driver can get through with most cars i they have winter tyres, but a good SUV is just a bit easier rather than a necessity. They are, however, crap on ice because of the weight and you have to be even more vigilant than in a smaller vehicle.
This sums up the crux of what I'm saying. In most places in the UK these extreme conditions don't exist for any lengthy period of time. The guys I was talking to live in Croydon and Brighton, even at the height of last years bad weather they admitted the worst they saw was a foot or two of snow. Yet they are preparing to tool up for a trek in the Arctic. Where you do have an advantage in a 4x4 is very deep snow. The height is very handy. I use a Cayenne with full snows and often drive across the Adirondacks in winter; it is practically unstoppable.
Certainly, a skilled driver can get through with most cars i they have winter tyres, but a good SUV is just a bit easier rather than a necessity. They are, however, crap on ice because of the weight and you have to be even more vigilant than in a smaller vehicle.
A relatively heavy, overpowered 4x4 would actually be a liability in the type of conditions they are likely to experience ie black ice.
Having spent a winter in Fernie BC, hitching daily up to the ski hill, I can vouch for the fact that pretty much any car can get about in full on winter conditions with the right tyres (incl a hearse on a couple of occasions)
I am guilty as charged though - have just bought a Touareg as we're going to the Alps for a couple of months after Christmas. We needed something comfy enough for the trip, big enough for all the kit we're taking and capable of getting us around in the mountains.
It has been great being able to park outside our flat for the last couple of days though, rather than on the main road at the top of the hill from our place.
I am guilty as charged though - have just bought a Touareg as we're going to the Alps for a couple of months after Christmas. We needed something comfy enough for the trip, big enough for all the kit we're taking and capable of getting us around in the mountains.
It has been great being able to park outside our flat for the last couple of days though, rather than on the main road at the top of the hill from our place.
Depends entirely on the 4x4. An X5, Cayenne, Q7 etc would be a hinderance in the snow and completely useless. A Land Rover (of any description) or a 4wd Subaru etc would be an effective piece of equipment. Match them with an appropriate set of tyres and you're ready for anything.
Apart from numpties who crash and block the road.
Apart from numpties who crash and block the road.
I definitely don't need a 4x4. I live in Southern England, and i'm not a farmer, for goodness sake.
However, I have a Jeep for a bit of a change and being a member of a sailing club, it's very handy driving on deep shingle. It can also tow the moon.
We've a fair amount of snow at the mo, and one thing is for certain, the Jeep isn't necessary but it's oh so easy and i'm enjoying every minute of it.
However, I have a Jeep for a bit of a change and being a member of a sailing club, it's very handy driving on deep shingle. It can also tow the moon.
We've a fair amount of snow at the mo, and one thing is for certain, the Jeep isn't necessary but it's oh so easy and i'm enjoying every minute of it.
This morning I laughed as one of my neighbours was struggling to get up a small hill in their 4x4 landcruiser while I pottered along with no problems in my fwd hatchabck. Less power + momentum > revving the tits off it and spinning all driven wheels.
Definitely don't need a 4x4 in our pathetic winter.
Definitely don't need a 4x4 in our pathetic winter.
Motorrad said:
lost_boy said:
I agree you don't NEED a 4x4 but they do have their advantages, for example, you'd struggle with a small FWD average powered car in thick deep snow, where a 4x4 would power through it.
Less power is better and funny I lived at the top of a very steep hill and always managed to get up it. Maybe people need to refine their driving technique?
GKP said:
Depends entirely on the 4x4. An X5, Cayenne, Q7 etc would be a hinderance in the snow and completely useless. A Land Rover (of any description) or a 4wd Subaru etc would be an effective piece of equipment. Match them with an appropriate set of tyres and you're ready for anything.
Apart from numpties who crash and block the road.
Not sure why you think a Land Rover of any description would be better than a Touareg etc, which I assume you are including in your first group?Apart from numpties who crash and block the road.
I've getting a set of 235 section Wintracs going on tomorrow so rollon January.
Acehood said:
This morning I laughed as one of my neighbours was struggling to get up a small hill in their 4x4 landcruiser while I pottered along with no problems in my fwd hatchabck. Less power + momentum > revving the tits off it and spinning all driven wheels.
Definitely don't need a 4x4 in our pathetic winter.
Well last year there were lots of cars struggling to get up steep hills in high wycombe, lots of fwd ones and plenty of rwd ones which could hardly get over a speedbump, i was with a friend (in a skinny tyred fwd car) who went up a hill at pace to try to keep momentum and still lost traction and ended up having to come back down, and another hill in a very similar situation and was hindered halfway up the ascent by some idiot driver again forcving us to come back down (we would have got up that hill if it was not for the actions of said idiot).Definitely don't need a 4x4 in our pathetic winter.
There are lots of places with very steep inclines that only awd vcehicles could get up, but i agree the bigger heavier 4x4`s are not the best idea.
Different parts of the country have different conditions.
Have you ever tried towing a laden car trailer transporter in the snow?
That's when a proper 4x4 comes in handy, tomorrow I'm going from Dorset (no snow I might add) to Grimsby, then to Buxton, then to Hexham & back home again eventually, so I'm hoping to find the white stuff. Oh and for a quick ski session at Yad Moss
I can't see you doing that in a 1.0L Polo.
However for getting about a small car on snowies is excellent & will get you most places a 4x4 on all terrains will. As proven last year with the wifes Golf, it went everywhere the landcruiser did & we tried! This year the Landcruiser is on snowies as opposed to A/T tyres & will be pretty unstoppable until I bump into the snowplough that stuck in a blizzard
That's when a proper 4x4 comes in handy, tomorrow I'm going from Dorset (no snow I might add) to Grimsby, then to Buxton, then to Hexham & back home again eventually, so I'm hoping to find the white stuff. Oh and for a quick ski session at Yad Moss
I can't see you doing that in a 1.0L Polo.
However for getting about a small car on snowies is excellent & will get you most places a 4x4 on all terrains will. As proven last year with the wifes Golf, it went everywhere the landcruiser did & we tried! This year the Landcruiser is on snowies as opposed to A/T tyres & will be pretty unstoppable until I bump into the snowplough that stuck in a blizzard
Edited by cptsideways on Tuesday 30th November 22:49
Gassing Station | General Gassing [Archive] | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff