Anyone work for Citreon? 1.6HDI .v. 2.0HDI reliability?
Discussion
I've read 2 threads about what I think is the same engine in other cars.
On here, a Mazda3 with a 1.6 diesel engine blew up after late service
On Honest John, a Ford C-Max 1.6 tdci did the same, after a late service again.
IIRC they all use the same PSA/Ford diesel engine, the same one as in the new MINI. The moral of this tale is make sure its serviced on time.
On here, a Mazda3 with a 1.6 diesel engine blew up after late service
On Honest John, a Ford C-Max 1.6 tdci did the same, after a late service again.
IIRC they all use the same PSA/Ford diesel engine, the same one as in the new MINI. The moral of this tale is make sure its serviced on time.
I asked a few questions about the 2.0 in a focus on here and generally the view seemed to be that it is reliable if serviced and the biggest issues are injectors that often need replacing at around 100,000 miles and a few seem to eat clutches.
I have a 90ps version of the 1.6 in my fiesta and that has managed 55,000 miles with no mechanical issues and has been serviced at 8/10,000 mile intervals so far. I don't know if they have belt or chain cams but the 1.6 needs a cam belt swap at 120,000 so its built for toughness.
The 110ps version of the 1.6 is generally (in the land outside PH) peoples favourite version of the engine and has a different intercooler and turbo to the 90ps version.
I have a 90ps version of the 1.6 in my fiesta and that has managed 55,000 miles with no mechanical issues and has been serviced at 8/10,000 mile intervals so far. I don't know if they have belt or chain cams but the 1.6 needs a cam belt swap at 120,000 so its built for toughness.
The 110ps version of the 1.6 is generally (in the land outside PH) peoples favourite version of the engine and has a different intercooler and turbo to the 90ps version.
Are we talking Berlingos?
My Dad has had a series of Berlingos, and has now moved onto the new smaller model (Bippa Van shape).
The 2.0HDi's were both faultlessly reliable as far as im aware. They had a 1.6 HDI for a long time aswell, but that developed a fault (I reckon it had blown a turbo oil seal) which lead to them getting the new car rather than pay (just out of warranty).
They are great cars though - I wanted one as a daily driver but you cant get them cheap enough yet. Great for sticking bikes and camping gear in - really comfy to sit in with great big windows and millions of useful cubbies etc. The little sun hatches in the roof are neat too.
Good utility cars IMO.
My Dad has had a series of Berlingos, and has now moved onto the new smaller model (Bippa Van shape).
The 2.0HDi's were both faultlessly reliable as far as im aware. They had a 1.6 HDI for a long time aswell, but that developed a fault (I reckon it had blown a turbo oil seal) which lead to them getting the new car rather than pay (just out of warranty).
They are great cars though - I wanted one as a daily driver but you cant get them cheap enough yet. Great for sticking bikes and camping gear in - really comfy to sit in with great big windows and millions of useful cubbies etc. The little sun hatches in the roof are neat too.
Good utility cars IMO.
The 2.0 HDi (DW10) has taken up the mantle left by the old 1.9 XUD9... ie, look after it even half properly and it'll go on forever.
Not sure on the 1.6, but I've seen and driven, umm, lots of 2.0 DW10's in 306's, 206's and a few vans, at mileages from 30,000 > 190,000 miles, and they have all, from the engine at least, felt solid and performed consistently.
The fact you can tune them to ~ 160bhp and run 280lbft of torque through their gearboxes from the standard 90bhp model one (just ECU tuning and putting an intercooler on), shows how much slack they have in them from an engineering point of view!
Also pretty easy to work on.
Avoid anything with DFP on it (late DW10's) if you want an easy life, because it does break on PSA stuff.
Dave
Not sure on the 1.6, but I've seen and driven, umm, lots of 2.0 DW10's in 306's, 206's and a few vans, at mileages from 30,000 > 190,000 miles, and they have all, from the engine at least, felt solid and performed consistently.
The fact you can tune them to ~ 160bhp and run 280lbft of torque through their gearboxes from the standard 90bhp model one (just ECU tuning and putting an intercooler on), shows how much slack they have in them from an engineering point of view!
Also pretty easy to work on.
Avoid anything with DFP on it (late DW10's) if you want an easy life, because it does break on PSA stuff.
Dave
I presume the 2.0 is DW10 and the 1.6 is DV6 in Ford speak?
I'm not sure when the non-DPF cars ceased being offered in the UK. I believe they're all DPF on the continent (that's a diesel particulate filter in case you're not familiar with the term - like a ginat tea strainer that traps soot in the exhaust) and this certainly does bring a little more risk of mechanical issue, but it should still be pretty reliable. I worked on DW10 and don't remember any great issues - the hardware may have been different on the PSA cars though. Can't speak for DV6, but purely 'cause I didn't encounter it very often. Gut instinct would be to go for the 2.0-litre though.
I'm not sure when the non-DPF cars ceased being offered in the UK. I believe they're all DPF on the continent (that's a diesel particulate filter in case you're not familiar with the term - like a ginat tea strainer that traps soot in the exhaust) and this certainly does bring a little more risk of mechanical issue, but it should still be pretty reliable. I worked on DW10 and don't remember any great issues - the hardware may have been different on the PSA cars though. Can't speak for DV6, but purely 'cause I didn't encounter it very often. Gut instinct would be to go for the 2.0-litre though.
We have a 53 plate 2.0hdi partner (which is a berlingo with a differnet badge and better spec). Just got to 100K. Wife uses it for her daily commute and loves it. Handling isnt great but performance is fair and fuel economy good. Very practical so it ticks all the boxes for what we wanted.
Ours is the 90bhp version. I bought that for simplicity because I didnt want a fap/dpf and the 110bhp versions of the hdi all seemed to be fap equiped (we also thought about the C4/C8). I also understand that we do not have the dual mass flywheel.
Just had the timing belt done at the main dealer for £340 including aux belts/pulleys etc and crank pulley which is an extra £100 but there are known failures on all the hdi engines (the crank pulley has a rubber damper layer which fails with age - can lead to iffy running and belts coming off in the worst case).
Ours is the 90bhp version. I bought that for simplicity because I didnt want a fap/dpf and the 110bhp versions of the hdi all seemed to be fap equiped (we also thought about the C4/C8). I also understand that we do not have the dual mass flywheel.
Just had the timing belt done at the main dealer for £340 including aux belts/pulleys etc and crank pulley which is an extra £100 but there are known failures on all the hdi engines (the crank pulley has a rubber damper layer which fails with age - can lead to iffy running and belts coming off in the worst case).
Late DW10 is in cars that ran quite late, things like vans, 806's, and maybe some 406's will have had them.
I have no idea on the year swap over, but the DW10 did get quite b
dised in the end, things like water cooled EGR, DFP's, weird throttle bodies on the intakes etc.
All just things that break and cost a fortune to fix for no perceptible real world benefit.
Not really sure on how good you are at spotting all this stuff by looking, but if you get the VIN you can go on the parts box (PSA), and check the parts the car uses to see what it has on it...
Hmm
Dave
I have no idea on the year swap over, but the DW10 did get quite b
dised in the end, things like water cooled EGR, DFP's, weird throttle bodies on the intakes etc.All just things that break and cost a fortune to fix for no perceptible real world benefit.
Not really sure on how good you are at spotting all this stuff by looking, but if you get the VIN you can go on the parts box (PSA), and check the parts the car uses to see what it has on it...
Hmm
Dave
Not sure on what the DW10 later went on to become, but in the 90/110(intercooled) forms, with the EDC15 Bosch ECU, they are solid as a rock...
As said, I've seen lots, and tuned a few, and driven lots of them hard with near double the wheel torque, and near double the power at higher rpm, and they have all been great, and most are all well into their 100k miles, with some nearing 200k at those miles!
So, I can't say too much about later ones except that I read a great deal about the DFP or water cooled EGR or whatever else they got attached to them in the end, breaking.
I can say for certain though the early stuff is tough as old boots, just like the XUD9 that went before... and that is mainly through being simple... something forgotten these days with all the anti-pollution junk stuck on, that actually puts these cars into recycling earlier in their lifetime because of being uneconomical to repair all that anti-pollution stuff!
Dave
As said, I've seen lots, and tuned a few, and driven lots of them hard with near double the wheel torque, and near double the power at higher rpm, and they have all been great, and most are all well into their 100k miles, with some nearing 200k at those miles!
So, I can't say too much about later ones except that I read a great deal about the DFP or water cooled EGR or whatever else they got attached to them in the end, breaking.
I can say for certain though the early stuff is tough as old boots, just like the XUD9 that went before... and that is mainly through being simple... something forgotten these days with all the anti-pollution junk stuck on, that actually puts these cars into recycling earlier in their lifetime because of being uneconomical to repair all that anti-pollution stuff!
Dave
If they are going strong at 10yrs old and 200k miles with minimal costs if the need for repairs arises, then I'd call em going strong 
But again, I have little experience with the later incarnations of the DW10, except that they clogged up the breathing at both ends with lots of junk.
If it doesn't go wrong, great, but in my experience Peugeot stuff like this goes wrong, and unlike the cats you can just take off when they rust through at 5yrs old on the old DW10 stuff, the ECU cries and goes limp on newer DFP cars, and will be either re-program to work without it, or an expensive replacement DFP. Either way, it's not going to be a kind car if/when it breaks vs the simpler ones
Dave
But again, I have little experience with the later incarnations of the DW10, except that they clogged up the breathing at both ends with lots of junk.
If it doesn't go wrong, great, but in my experience Peugeot stuff like this goes wrong, and unlike the cats you can just take off when they rust through at 5yrs old on the old DW10 stuff, the ECU cries and goes limp on newer DFP cars, and will be either re-program to work without it, or an expensive replacement DFP. Either way, it's not going to be a kind car if/when it breaks vs the simpler ones
Dave
IMHO the 2.0 HDi is junk. The reason being that I recently bought a Peugeot 306 2.0 HDi estate as a runabout. Allegedly the lady that owned it previously had cam belt trouble and paid a garage a fortune to put it right then when the brake-light-switch gave trouble she got rid of the car. OK I bought the car from a scrap-man and at first the car seemed a good buy. I've now noticed water loss and black oil in the header tank. This indicates to me that the mechanics who allegedly repaired the car were just a bunch of toss-pots but there are plenty of those around. Unfortunately as its now the 30th of January its far too cold to be playing with the spanners. GRRR!
At this rate my H reg Peugeot 405 could soon be making a comeback as the 1.9 XUD engine is a better bet than the new fangled drive-by-wire stuff.
Oh by the way, with an HDi one only has to run out out of fuel then fetch DERV in a can that once contained truck cleaner and the high pressure pump will be knackered. I know someone who had this happen with his Picasso. With the HDi I would actually like to add two stroke oil to the DERV but unfortunately Morrison's two stroke oil is red so it could lead to misunderstandings with the old bill. The person who decided to dye two stroke oil red needs to be sectioned as he must be nuts.
At this rate my H reg Peugeot 405 could soon be making a comeback as the 1.9 XUD engine is a better bet than the new fangled drive-by-wire stuff.
Oh by the way, with an HDi one only has to run out out of fuel then fetch DERV in a can that once contained truck cleaner and the high pressure pump will be knackered. I know someone who had this happen with his Picasso. With the HDi I would actually like to add two stroke oil to the DERV but unfortunately Morrison's two stroke oil is red so it could lead to misunderstandings with the old bill. The person who decided to dye two stroke oil red needs to be sectioned as he must be nuts.
I am NOT STRUCK at all with the PSA diesels, not even the older ones that use a square bar to drive the oil pump. On those the bit that the bar should drive is made from Monkey Metal and the square hole can become round. When this happens the camshaft seizes through lack of of oil and the cam-belt snaps. Milliseconds later the pistons hit the valves so you won't be able to get to work this morning! Problem vehicles are the MK2 Renault Espace turbo-diesel and presumably any others that share the same engine. Curiously the PSA 1.9 XUD non-turbo diesel is quite reliable for a car but visit any HGV supplier and you may see posters guaranteeing truck engines for A MILLION MILES BEFORE OVERHAUL! Now that's what I call durability. Having just said that my first car an Austin A30 had clocked up 250,000 miles when I sold it. The engine was BMC A Series like a Morris Minor. Not many modern cars can shake a stick at 250,000 miles as their cam-belts and ECUs will have popped-off long before that. The old Mercedes 300D is quite good as it has neither cam-belts nor black boxes but such a huge car with a slush-box is not every-bodies cup of tea, however if one has a gammy left leg it could be ideal and huge mileages are of course possible.
At present I am using a Peugeot 306 2.0 HDi as a runabout but IMHO its a piece of junk. Admittedly the Common Rail turbo-diesel does seem to zip along better than the non-turbo 1.9 XUD in the Peugeot 405 but IMHO the 405 is a better car as it is MORE RELIABLE so my plans are to restore the 405 and scrap the 306 which has so many foibles that it beggars belief. OK the car was bought from a scrap-man and allegedly when the fault of brake-lights-on-all-the-time occurred the lady got rid of the car as she had allegedly spent fortunes on it. I've now fixed BLOATT but the cars latest foible is intermittent "limping" which might be caused by the Common Rail Pump. The cam-belt needs replacing anyway as the water pump is leaking (yup that's a really good place to put a water pump as it can be a £500 hit at a garage!) They don't make cars like they used to as the old Triumph GT6 engine was so durable that it would outlast several body shells but now cars are all cam-belts and ECUs. As to the 306 I am fast running out of patience with it but I'll give it a fuel filter and see what happens. IMHO a lot of cars are now being under-engineered and over-complicated to the extent that their value sinks like a stone. If you don't believe this just look at how the values of proper Land Rovers hold up, for example £20,000 asked for a used Defender that was several years old!
As to the HDi, I know someone who trashed his pump by running low on fuel. At work the boss gave him a gallon of truck diesel (white) but it looks as if the fatal error was using a second-hand container that had once contained truck cleaner. It seemed that the traces of detergent in the container killed the pump so a good second-hand pump had to be obtained. It cost £150 at the time and of course it was a cam-belt job. I would say that with the 2.0 HDi anything over 100,000 miles is on borrowed time unless it has had a proper belt change with pump and idlers and proper servicing. Some people add two-stroke oil to the fuel to ward-off pump problems but if so only use the blue oil as red can cause problems. There are still diesels around that don't use any of the modern junk but can still do a good turn of speed. Some of the modern car designs are however abysmal as there is the city car that cannot get up hills and now there are millions of cars which have airbags that are far too powerful. Take care!
PS The German for travel or a journey is Fahrt so if one makes a journey in a lightweight car one can be said to Fahrt in a ...
At present I am using a Peugeot 306 2.0 HDi as a runabout but IMHO its a piece of junk. Admittedly the Common Rail turbo-diesel does seem to zip along better than the non-turbo 1.9 XUD in the Peugeot 405 but IMHO the 405 is a better car as it is MORE RELIABLE so my plans are to restore the 405 and scrap the 306 which has so many foibles that it beggars belief. OK the car was bought from a scrap-man and allegedly when the fault of brake-lights-on-all-the-time occurred the lady got rid of the car as she had allegedly spent fortunes on it. I've now fixed BLOATT but the cars latest foible is intermittent "limping" which might be caused by the Common Rail Pump. The cam-belt needs replacing anyway as the water pump is leaking (yup that's a really good place to put a water pump as it can be a £500 hit at a garage!) They don't make cars like they used to as the old Triumph GT6 engine was so durable that it would outlast several body shells but now cars are all cam-belts and ECUs. As to the 306 I am fast running out of patience with it but I'll give it a fuel filter and see what happens. IMHO a lot of cars are now being under-engineered and over-complicated to the extent that their value sinks like a stone. If you don't believe this just look at how the values of proper Land Rovers hold up, for example £20,000 asked for a used Defender that was several years old!
As to the HDi, I know someone who trashed his pump by running low on fuel. At work the boss gave him a gallon of truck diesel (white) but it looks as if the fatal error was using a second-hand container that had once contained truck cleaner. It seemed that the traces of detergent in the container killed the pump so a good second-hand pump had to be obtained. It cost £150 at the time and of course it was a cam-belt job. I would say that with the 2.0 HDi anything over 100,000 miles is on borrowed time unless it has had a proper belt change with pump and idlers and proper servicing. Some people add two-stroke oil to the fuel to ward-off pump problems but if so only use the blue oil as red can cause problems. There are still diesels around that don't use any of the modern junk but can still do a good turn of speed. Some of the modern car designs are however abysmal as there is the city car that cannot get up hills and now there are millions of cars which have airbags that are far too powerful. Take care!
PS The German for travel or a journey is Fahrt so if one makes a journey in a lightweight car one can be said to Fahrt in a ...
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