Concorde conspiracy theory - please read!!!
Discussion
Taken from a specialist avaiation forum. This is believed to be the real reasons in chronological order of why Concordes future as the great british airline failed. Makes very interesting reading!!!!
1.Air France had a millstone and they did not know what to do with it (losing money hand over fist).
2.Airfrance decide to scrap.
3.Airfrance now have a poblem, if they scrap and BA continues they are seen as incompetent at best, malicious and incompetant at worst, and an affront to Frances world prestige.
We know that they can act this way, see the pressure on the CAA to supend Concord(e) flights after the accident.
4.Airfrance gets together with French Government and Aerospatial to be released from flying the bird, and hinting that it would not look good if BA were to continue to fly at a profit and inherited all the prestige at France's expense.
5.Aerospatiale now sugests to the French government that it will look once again at the figures, but in a less charitable light since it is not now French prestige at stake allowing the aircraft to fly (perhaps some creative bookeeping has been going on to allow the French government to effectively subsidise Concord(e) by the back door through aerospatiale).
6.Aerospatial now raise the servicing price.
7.Aerospatiale then decide to withdraw the Type Certificate to cap it all.
8 Faced with this BA capitulate, as they are getting no backing from the British government, against aerospatiale,
9.Branson now comes on the scene.
10.BA are now in the same boat as AirFrance. If Branson gets the
aircraft he could prove them publically andembarrasingly wrong, and that would be catastrophic, seriously threatening the financial stability of the company (The ratner trap).
11. Branson reveals he has backing from Middle east oil interests and intends to extend the flying routes back to Dubai. To the guys at aerospatiale and BA House, he now appears to have the limitless resources needed to actually bring this off.
12.Aerospatiale panic also for they could be asked to surrender design authority, and nightmare of all nightmares, Branson transfers design authority across the pond, and gives the keys to aerospatiales supersonic research to the americans (in exchange he gets preferential subsidised maintenance from JFK "a pathetic short term advantage" for selling France's "Birthright").
13.BA is put further under the hammer. There might be price revisions on the future fleet of airbuses that BA might want to order, if he goes along with this transfer. This in turn threatens BA stability.
Hence the determined standoff.
Why does the British government stand off?
Ans:-
Because France has now invested a lot of prestige in getting out of this deal, and things are sticky enough in the Council of ministers without France taking further umbrage at America's poodle, who could now be portrayed as deceitfully manoeuvring to steal EUROPEAN airspace secrets from the custody of the French only to hand them over for nothing to the Americans...once again comfirming how faithless the traitorous British are (and who will sell their own mothers for "half a sou").
1.Air France had a millstone and they did not know what to do with it (losing money hand over fist).
2.Airfrance decide to scrap.
3.Airfrance now have a poblem, if they scrap and BA continues they are seen as incompetent at best, malicious and incompetant at worst, and an affront to Frances world prestige.
We know that they can act this way, see the pressure on the CAA to supend Concord(e) flights after the accident.
4.Airfrance gets together with French Government and Aerospatial to be released from flying the bird, and hinting that it would not look good if BA were to continue to fly at a profit and inherited all the prestige at France's expense.
5.Aerospatiale now sugests to the French government that it will look once again at the figures, but in a less charitable light since it is not now French prestige at stake allowing the aircraft to fly (perhaps some creative bookeeping has been going on to allow the French government to effectively subsidise Concord(e) by the back door through aerospatiale).
6.Aerospatial now raise the servicing price.
7.Aerospatiale then decide to withdraw the Type Certificate to cap it all.
8 Faced with this BA capitulate, as they are getting no backing from the British government, against aerospatiale,
9.Branson now comes on the scene.
10.BA are now in the same boat as AirFrance. If Branson gets the
aircraft he could prove them publically andembarrasingly wrong, and that would be catastrophic, seriously threatening the financial stability of the company (The ratner trap).
11. Branson reveals he has backing from Middle east oil interests and intends to extend the flying routes back to Dubai. To the guys at aerospatiale and BA House, he now appears to have the limitless resources needed to actually bring this off.
12.Aerospatiale panic also for they could be asked to surrender design authority, and nightmare of all nightmares, Branson transfers design authority across the pond, and gives the keys to aerospatiales supersonic research to the americans (in exchange he gets preferential subsidised maintenance from JFK "a pathetic short term advantage" for selling France's "Birthright").
13.BA is put further under the hammer. There might be price revisions on the future fleet of airbuses that BA might want to order, if he goes along with this transfer. This in turn threatens BA stability.
Hence the determined standoff.
Why does the British government stand off?
Ans:-
Because France has now invested a lot of prestige in getting out of this deal, and things are sticky enough in the Council of ministers without France taking further umbrage at America's poodle, who could now be portrayed as deceitfully manoeuvring to steal EUROPEAN airspace secrets from the custody of the French only to hand them over for nothing to the Americans...once again comfirming how faithless the traitorous British are (and who will sell their own mothers for "half a sou").
There's not much conspiracy in that post - it's pretty much how it happened.
Except that I think the French government put pressure on Air France because it is undergoing a privatisation (and subsequent acquisition of KLM). Air France after all was run as part of the French state. Airbus also has a largew proportion of ownership from the French government - which in effect gave them carte blanche to do what they like.
BA were in a no-win situation. They could have fought it, and in some ways they did. Air France scrapped theirs within weeks - at least BA kept going for 6 more months, flying thousands on Concorde. I'm sure there were some bean counters within BA who jumped at the chance to retire her also.
Except that I think the French government put pressure on Air France because it is undergoing a privatisation (and subsequent acquisition of KLM). Air France after all was run as part of the French state. Airbus also has a largew proportion of ownership from the French government - which in effect gave them carte blanche to do what they like.
BA were in a no-win situation. They could have fought it, and in some ways they did. Air France scrapped theirs within weeks - at least BA kept going for 6 more months, flying thousands on Concorde. I'm sure there were some bean counters within BA who jumped at the chance to retire her also.
My mate at BA Wales says they can't now get bits to fit the aircraft and no-one seems interested in tooling to produce them (lenses for example)
he appeared to say, that it only exists as a prestige model, that happens to still take paying passengers as an aside on a (fairly) regular basis, but on no balance of flying hours to say a jumbo over the years
he appeared to say, that it only exists as a prestige model, that happens to still take paying passengers as an aside on a (fairly) regular basis, but on no balance of flying hours to say a jumbo over the years
Less profitable ? More like -made an even bigger loss- . BA has kept Concorde flying despite making a loss on every flight for the past 2 years (according to BA chairman interviewed during final flight coverage).
It's scarcely a conspiracy. Air France needed to cut its losses without losing face, BA didn't want Branson to end up with Concorde, Air France gave BA a bit of a push, the bean counters gratefully accepted it. Sad, but just business.
It's scarcely a conspiracy. Air France needed to cut its losses without losing face, BA didn't want Branson to end up with Concorde, Air France gave BA a bit of a push, the bean counters gratefully accepted it. Sad, but just business.
Can't believe they didn't make a profit over the last 6 months. The planes were full. One of the BA guys speaking on the documentary said they made an obscene amount before France crashed one and forced BA to stop flying too. Of course if you only measure after that and add on the cost of a 17million quid refit Rod Eddington's statement may well be true if you net it all up, but can't see how those planes would lose money when full even with lots of discount tickets.
) Concorde flight in the last six months, but Just a few questions for your conspiracy theory!
1. Air France have lost money for years, not just on concorde, state subsidy and national pride kept it going.
2. Do you not think the Paris crash had anythink to do with AF decision to ground concorde fleet?
6. BA did the servicing of Concorde, not Aerospatiale.
7. Type certificate (whats that?) i think its actually the CAA that certify the aircraft type, not the french.
11. Dubai? virgin cant even make it a viable route flying classics!
12. Why should selling the planes mean giving up design authority?
13. BA have airbus by the balls like all airlines, new aircraft orders are down, Boeing just let go 50,000 employees, who has the upper hand?
And there were other minor holes in conspiracy theory! like hours flown, rubbish, its cycles that count!
last point, i promise, calling the Brits "faithless traitors" is a bit rich coming from Germany, isnt it?
1. Air France have lost money for years, not just on concorde, state subsidy and national pride kept it going.
2. Do you not think the Paris crash had anythink to do with AF decision to ground concorde fleet?
6. BA did the servicing of Concorde, not Aerospatiale.
7. Type certificate (whats that?) i think its actually the CAA that certify the aircraft type, not the french.
11. Dubai? virgin cant even make it a viable route flying classics!
12. Why should selling the planes mean giving up design authority?
13. BA have airbus by the balls like all airlines, new aircraft orders are down, Boeing just let go 50,000 employees, who has the upper hand?
And there were other minor holes in conspiracy theory! like hours flown, rubbish, its cycles that count!
last point, i promise, calling the Brits "faithless traitors" is a bit rich coming from Germany, isnt it?
That quote of 30% sales from Flight International is only up to the announcement of Concorde's retirement, and is for Air France as well as BA.
Since the announcement in April, BA Concordes have rarely been less than 90% full. And in the last few months they've sold more tickets than they have seats for just about every flight.
Since the announcement in April, BA Concordes have rarely been less than 90% full. And in the last few months they've sold more tickets than they have seats for just about every flight.
Gassing Station | General Gassing [Archive] | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff