Frameless windows - why?
Discussion
Subaru has persisted with frameless windows right through to my current MY05 Legacy. I read in one of the on-line magazine articles some implication that Subaru believed this was a positive thing, but no reasons were given.
American cars used to have them too. My uncle's 1969 Camaro had them, so that when the rear triangular windows were wound down, the entire side was open, with no mid-supporting frames. This isn't applicable on the Subaru so why continue with them? Don't you get a better door seal when you have a frame?
American cars used to have them too. My uncle's 1969 Camaro had them, so that when the rear triangular windows were wound down, the entire side was open, with no mid-supporting frames. This isn't applicable on the Subaru so why continue with them? Don't you get a better door seal when you have a frame?
As far as I can see the majority of cars that have them are also available as cabrios:
The BMW 3 series for example is available as both a coupe and cabrio and as they share the same doors etc why go to the trouble of making both framed and frameless in the same size?
However the 3 series saloon uses framed doors so obviously the only reason the coupe has them is as above, suggesting there must be some benefit to having framed doors?
I would think framed doors are easier to seal, easier to keep the windows in place as they go up / down etc so perhaps frameless are more expensive to get right but are perceived as a more premium product? hence their inclusion on "aspirational" cars?
The BMW 3 series for example is available as both a coupe and cabrio and as they share the same doors etc why go to the trouble of making both framed and frameless in the same size?
However the 3 series saloon uses framed doors so obviously the only reason the coupe has them is as above, suggesting there must be some benefit to having framed doors?
I would think framed doors are easier to seal, easier to keep the windows in place as they go up / down etc so perhaps frameless are more expensive to get right but are perceived as a more premium product? hence their inclusion on "aspirational" cars?
Mike400 said:
As far as I can see the majority of cars that have them are also available as cabrios:
The BMW 3 series for example is available as both a coupe and cabrio and as they share the same doors etc why go to the trouble of making both framed and frameless in the same size?
However the 3 series saloon uses framed doors so obviously the only reason the coupe has them is as above, suggesting there must be some benefit to having framed doors?
I would think framed doors are easier to seal, easier to keep the windows in place as they go up / down etc so perhaps frameless are more expensive to get right but are perceived as a more premium product? hence their inclusion on "aspirational" cars?
I think this is right. A pluss point is it makes the lines of the car a lot cleaner and much easyer to clean too. The BMW 3 series for example is available as both a coupe and cabrio and as they share the same doors etc why go to the trouble of making both framed and frameless in the same size?
However the 3 series saloon uses framed doors so obviously the only reason the coupe has them is as above, suggesting there must be some benefit to having framed doors?
I would think framed doors are easier to seal, easier to keep the windows in place as they go up / down etc so perhaps frameless are more expensive to get right but are perceived as a more premium product? hence their inclusion on "aspirational" cars?
I always wanted them after seeing Knightrider in the 80s. If Kitt had frameless windows, so did I...
I believe its styling, however most manufacturers have problems with sealing and minimising wind noise. Its a very expensive solution to a problem which doesnt really exist. A frame'd window is a lot easier to seal and maintain.
I believe its styling, however most manufacturers have problems with sealing and minimising wind noise. Its a very expensive solution to a problem which doesnt really exist. A frame'd window is a lot easier to seal and maintain.
Having driven e36 M3s in both the coupe and saloon bodyshells, the most striking difference is the quietness of the saloon. The coupes A-pillars are very noisy in comparison. I put this down to the superior sealing achieved with the framed saloon doors which incorporate two rubber profiles rather than the coupe's single rubber profile.
They look really nice 
However, once you've poked yourself in the face a few times getting into the car on the edge of the glass, the novelty soon wears off
Also, down points: Glass needs to drop slightly when the doors open (on the E36 coupe anyway) and this can go wrong slightly if something fails, never mind the fact that the glass sticks to the seal in the winter and there's nothing that you can do!
But, at the end of the day, they look ace, especially when you open the doors with the windows down, ala Knight Rider
However, once you've poked yourself in the face a few times getting into the car on the edge of the glass, the novelty soon wears off
Also, down points: Glass needs to drop slightly when the doors open (on the E36 coupe anyway) and this can go wrong slightly if something fails, never mind the fact that the glass sticks to the seal in the winter and there's nothing that you can do!
But, at the end of the day, they look ace, especially when you open the doors with the windows down, ala Knight Rider
Murdock said:
neil_bolton said:
However, once you've poked yourself in the face a few times getting into the car on the edge of the glass, the novelty soon wears off
Precisely how I smashed my last pair of glasses. Even worse when your passenger/missus wets herself laughing at you. Anger/fuming wasn't the word
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