How Do You Buy Books?
Discussion
My mum has long been a writer all her life, but has just had her first novel published by Penguin.
This stemmed from family research and an interest in local history. It's now up on the Penguin website and so far the publishers are satisfied with the sales figures.
https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/1118306/the-cotton...
However, she's been looking forward to the book launch since she had a meeting with the publishers about it early last year and was given a publication date which was then over a year off. Little did she know then that it would be somewhat scuppered by a viral pandemic that's closed independent book shops and prevented the book being available through outlets it otherwise would have been. It also means no book signings or visits for talks or anything that could have otherwise taken place. So, it's been a little disheartening as a culmination of a lifetime's ambition.
This has led to me wondering just how people buy books. Especially novels.
Do people here tend to order them through Amazon or Hive?
Do you go into independent book shops and buy them?
Do you impulse buy them in the supermarket when doing other shopping?
How do you tend to buy books and how are you buying them now when you can only go out for "essential" shopping?
This stemmed from family research and an interest in local history. It's now up on the Penguin website and so far the publishers are satisfied with the sales figures.
https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/1118306/the-cotton...
However, she's been looking forward to the book launch since she had a meeting with the publishers about it early last year and was given a publication date which was then over a year off. Little did she know then that it would be somewhat scuppered by a viral pandemic that's closed independent book shops and prevented the book being available through outlets it otherwise would have been. It also means no book signings or visits for talks or anything that could have otherwise taken place. So, it's been a little disheartening as a culmination of a lifetime's ambition.
This has led to me wondering just how people buy books. Especially novels.
Do people here tend to order them through Amazon or Hive?
Do you go into independent book shops and buy them?
Do you impulse buy them in the supermarket when doing other shopping?
How do you tend to buy books and how are you buying them now when you can only go out for "essential" shopping?
Mainly Amazon, including for second-hand books from third party specialists.
I love browsing in second-hand bookshops, but I very seldom get the chance, these days.
ETA, having looked at the link to your mum's book:
Maybe just me, but for what it's worth there's nothing I hate more than a book from a new author being advertised as '...for fans of XYZ'. That alone would instantly make me click away.
If the author isn't capable of writing a book that stands on its own merit and without plagiarising someone else's style I ain't interested in reading it.
I love browsing in second-hand bookshops, but I very seldom get the chance, these days.
ETA, having looked at the link to your mum's book:
Maybe just me, but for what it's worth there's nothing I hate more than a book from a new author being advertised as '...for fans of XYZ'. That alone would instantly make me click away.
If the author isn't capable of writing a book that stands on its own merit and without plagiarising someone else's style I ain't interested in reading it.
Edited by Equus on Saturday 2nd May 13:38
Equus said:
Mainly Amazon, including for second-hand books from third party specialists.
I love browsing in second-hand bookshops, but I very seldom get the chance, these days.
ETA, having looked at the link to your mum's book:
Maybe just me, but for what it's worth there's nothing I hate more than a book from a new author being advertised as '...for fans of XYZ'. That alone would instantly make me click away.
If the author isn't capable of writing a book that stands on its own merit and without plagiarising someone else's style I ain't interested in reading it.
That wasn't my mum's doing though, it's something the Penguin marketing department did and the first she knew of it was seeing it on the book cover image.I love browsing in second-hand bookshops, but I very seldom get the chance, these days.
ETA, having looked at the link to your mum's book:
Maybe just me, but for what it's worth there's nothing I hate more than a book from a new author being advertised as '...for fans of XYZ'. That alone would instantly make me click away.
If the author isn't capable of writing a book that stands on its own merit and without plagiarising someone else's style I ain't interested in reading it.
Edited by Equus on Saturday 2nd May 13:38
Equus said:
Yes, I'm sure it was.
And perhaps it won't put off some readers of certain genres, but it certainly would me.
I understand what you mean and felt the same way when I saw it. It's something they seem to do with all their books, so it's an idea someone in the marketing department has had rather than a judgement of the individual books. And perhaps it won't put off some readers of certain genres, but it certainly would me.
My mum certainly didn't set out to copy anyone else and even avoids reading similar books when she's writing to avoid inadvertently copying them. She wasn't thrilled with this comparison and did worry it might do more harm than good.
I suppose they're trying to show people at a glance what sort of genre it's in and say that if they like someone else's work they should try this as well.
Edited by Blakewater on Saturday 2nd May 17:41
Interesting. I'll give my two-pennorth of perspective (as a publisher for the last 33 years - a small and independent one that is).
Penguin - people are still nostalgic about the name with it's famous logo and British connection (it's not British anymore!) and Sir Allen Lane, whose secretary came up with the name while 'Teddy' Young sketched some penguins at London zoo. became an imprint of Random House (the latter who once 'nicked' one of my authors whose book had been in print for 5 years, published by me). I didn't blame my author, well, Random House at that point was just about the largest publisher in the world. Under the umbrella of the giant Pearson. But with all big guns things change with time. Penguin today is not the Penguin of old (the one steeped in British publishing tradition since it was founded in 1935 by Sir Allen Lane and his two brothers).
Near to the end of last year that you could get, the 18th Dec, Pearson sold its last stake in Penguin Random House, the book publishing joint venture it formed six years earlier with, wait for it, ...Bertelsmann! The German media group.
Pearson had owned 47% of Penguin Random House when the joint venture had been set up in 2013.
It had already sold a 22% stake in the business to Bertelsmann for $1bn in 2017. In Dec last year it sold its remaining 25% stake to Bertelsmann for £530m.
That sale now meant not ONE of the so-called 'Big Five' of English-language book publishing remained in British ownership.
If you hear another once proud British publishing name, for example, Macmillan, nine out of ten if stopped in the street think it's still British - it's not, it's been owned for the last 20 years by German group Holtzbrinck.
You rarely read that. It will just say Macmillan is a 'global trade publishing house' - how convenient!
As an aside like the power companies, next time you watch an advert on the tv for EDF plying for your business it will probably say something along the lines of the most trusted UK energy supplier and suckers fall for it... it's French ffs! Electricitie de France E D F. Don't they just love their 3 letters? Just like British book printers. Some of the 'Big Names' are still there, I've used them over the years, but NONE again remain in British ownership. One I have just used to print and bind my latest book, and in the middle of this pandemic, uses 3 letters too and is French owned!
edit to add
If you are published by a 'big boy' currently it is must be extremely difficult. I keep reading book publishing is falling apart, not just here in Britain, but globally because of the pandemic, and bookshops shutting up shop (a good friend has just told me she's had enough, not surprising with no new stock, but importantly no customers as the shop is shut. Sell online, I said like me at the moment, but no, that involves the post which she doesn't like doing, she lived for the personal touch, day in day out, book signings and so on. So, it's just one example, but a bookshop... gone!
I've been as busy as heck during the last 6 months up to March (and I'm retired, past retired!!). I can do it simply because I'm the boss, I'm beholden to nobody, it can be extremely difficult as a one-man band when you do everything from design to proofreading and have nobody to delegate stuff to. But I loathed working for other people (nah, that's not right... I loathed being 'told' what to do by others - no more clued up than I was/am).
In essence, my advice would have been for her to have found a small(er) publisher who specialised in that field. Of course, it is great to have a 'name' publisher - actually her book is published by 'Arrow' which is an imprint of Penguin, but as your mum has found out that splash bit about 'for fans of Catherine Cookson' is not helpful, luckily not on her next novel. But that's the 'design' team. The 'dolly bird' picture against 'old Mills' doesn't do it for me. But it follows their formats.
A smaller 'specialist' publisher would never have done that. It reminds me of a recent Stirling Moss book published by a publishing house not representative of motor sport publishing at all. The cover design was praised by one car magazine and it did look the business. But it had a major clanger which stood out like a sore thumb to enthusiasts, the car pictured was not Moss's, but Fangio's with Fangio at the wheel! Unbelievable.
Penguin - people are still nostalgic about the name with it's famous logo and British connection (it's not British anymore!) and Sir Allen Lane, whose secretary came up with the name while 'Teddy' Young sketched some penguins at London zoo. became an imprint of Random House (the latter who once 'nicked' one of my authors whose book had been in print for 5 years, published by me). I didn't blame my author, well, Random House at that point was just about the largest publisher in the world. Under the umbrella of the giant Pearson. But with all big guns things change with time. Penguin today is not the Penguin of old (the one steeped in British publishing tradition since it was founded in 1935 by Sir Allen Lane and his two brothers).
Near to the end of last year that you could get, the 18th Dec, Pearson sold its last stake in Penguin Random House, the book publishing joint venture it formed six years earlier with, wait for it, ...Bertelsmann! The German media group.
Pearson had owned 47% of Penguin Random House when the joint venture had been set up in 2013.
It had already sold a 22% stake in the business to Bertelsmann for $1bn in 2017. In Dec last year it sold its remaining 25% stake to Bertelsmann for £530m.
That sale now meant not ONE of the so-called 'Big Five' of English-language book publishing remained in British ownership.
If you hear another once proud British publishing name, for example, Macmillan, nine out of ten if stopped in the street think it's still British - it's not, it's been owned for the last 20 years by German group Holtzbrinck.
You rarely read that. It will just say Macmillan is a 'global trade publishing house' - how convenient!
As an aside like the power companies, next time you watch an advert on the tv for EDF plying for your business it will probably say something along the lines of the most trusted UK energy supplier and suckers fall for it... it's French ffs! Electricitie de France E D F. Don't they just love their 3 letters? Just like British book printers. Some of the 'Big Names' are still there, I've used them over the years, but NONE again remain in British ownership. One I have just used to print and bind my latest book, and in the middle of this pandemic, uses 3 letters too and is French owned!
edit to add
If you are published by a 'big boy' currently it is must be extremely difficult. I keep reading book publishing is falling apart, not just here in Britain, but globally because of the pandemic, and bookshops shutting up shop (a good friend has just told me she's had enough, not surprising with no new stock, but importantly no customers as the shop is shut. Sell online, I said like me at the moment, but no, that involves the post which she doesn't like doing, she lived for the personal touch, day in day out, book signings and so on. So, it's just one example, but a bookshop... gone!
I've been as busy as heck during the last 6 months up to March (and I'm retired, past retired!!). I can do it simply because I'm the boss, I'm beholden to nobody, it can be extremely difficult as a one-man band when you do everything from design to proofreading and have nobody to delegate stuff to. But I loathed working for other people (nah, that's not right... I loathed being 'told' what to do by others - no more clued up than I was/am).
In essence, my advice would have been for her to have found a small(er) publisher who specialised in that field. Of course, it is great to have a 'name' publisher - actually her book is published by 'Arrow' which is an imprint of Penguin, but as your mum has found out that splash bit about 'for fans of Catherine Cookson' is not helpful, luckily not on her next novel. But that's the 'design' team. The 'dolly bird' picture against 'old Mills' doesn't do it for me. But it follows their formats.
A smaller 'specialist' publisher would never have done that. It reminds me of a recent Stirling Moss book published by a publishing house not representative of motor sport publishing at all. The cover design was praised by one car magazine and it did look the business. But it had a major clanger which stood out like a sore thumb to enthusiasts, the car pictured was not Moss's, but Fangio's with Fangio at the wheel! Unbelievable.
Edited by dandarez on Sunday 17th May 14:50
Monkeylegend said:
Charity shops.
Me too, a lot of the time.I'm often tempted by Kindle Daily Deals (e-books for 99p), but most printed novels come from my local charity shop or, less often, ones I pass by.
I return the books there after too, so everyone wins.
My wife is still an avid user of the local library (when it's open, as with the charity shop).
More specialist books (motor sport, diving, etc) tend to come from a mixture of Amazon marketplace and Alibris, picking the best combination of price and conditions, but I rarely buy new.
M
Edited by marcosgt on Sunday 17th May 14:50
droopsnoot said:
Monkeylegend said:
Charity shops.
And me, sometimes. Though mainly car boot sales (ah, I remember car boot sales), library sale tables and the like, a lot of my local charity shops tend to be a bit pricey for a second-hand paperback.Generally the charity shops near us charge from 50p up to £2.99 at Oxfam. I never buy from Oxfam, never sure what your money is being spent on.
I usually go to Waterstones because people buy me book tokens for Birthdays and Christmas. There are no independent bookshops where I live. I know Waterstones are reviled, but the staff are local, it's one one of few high st chains thriving in what was already becoming a ghost town even before CV.
Too frequently... and generally from wherever I can get my hands on the one I want for the best price, with Amazon at the bottom of the list unless that the only place I can find it. Frequently, the books I've bought from them aren't always as cared for as they could be. The same with The Book Depository, which is unsurprisingly owned by Amazon (and I wouldn't be surprised if the orders are fulfilled from the same warehouses).
For new books online I'll search Waterstones, Blackwells, Foyles, Wordery, and Hive (a new discovery for me). Locally on the high street I'm limited to Waterstones or WHSmith, or The Works sometimes has the odd gem. There's a couple of small indie bookshops in the area, but unfortunately they tend to cater for the masses as that's where the money is, so don't stock much if any Sci-Fi or Fantasy, which is 99% of what I buy.
I'm also a sucker for 2nd hand and charity shops, but I have to make sure I'm buying a book because I do want to read it, rather than a maybe because it's a bargain. Most of the books I've donated back recently have been 2nd hand purchases that have languished on my shelves for far too long without being read.
For new books online I'll search Waterstones, Blackwells, Foyles, Wordery, and Hive (a new discovery for me). Locally on the high street I'm limited to Waterstones or WHSmith, or The Works sometimes has the odd gem. There's a couple of small indie bookshops in the area, but unfortunately they tend to cater for the masses as that's where the money is, so don't stock much if any Sci-Fi or Fantasy, which is 99% of what I buy.
I'm also a sucker for 2nd hand and charity shops, but I have to make sure I'm buying a book because I do want to read it, rather than a maybe because it's a bargain. Most of the books I've donated back recently have been 2nd hand purchases that have languished on my shelves for far too long without being read.
I tend to buy anywhere I frequent charity shops usually the local hospice cancer ones and age concern but actively avoid Oxfam.
I meant to go in here in south Manchester for ages https://www.sharstonbooks.co.uk/
Bad move I spent ages in there and came out a few quid lighter
loads of different books and a good find.
Otherwise it's the bigger bookshops and Amazon.
Sometimes pop in here http://highpeakbookstore.co.uk/ when I'm passing and there used to be a cafe in Didsbury where I'd dump the 'late' wife in to sup coffee with the kids whilst I used to nip in the large 2nd hand bookstore at the rear of it for ages.
I meant to go in here in south Manchester for ages https://www.sharstonbooks.co.uk/
Bad move I spent ages in there and came out a few quid lighter
loads of different books and a good find. Otherwise it's the bigger bookshops and Amazon.
Sometimes pop in here http://highpeakbookstore.co.uk/ when I'm passing and there used to be a cafe in Didsbury where I'd dump the 'late' wife in to sup coffee with the kids whilst I used to nip in the large 2nd hand bookstore at the rear of it for ages.
I am fortunate enough to have two Daunt's and a few independents nearby. I will always buy from these rather than enrich Amazon. When out and about, I'll also stop by small independents and second hand bookshops and spend a bit, more or less on principle. I know it costs more and I have occasionally to wait a day or so for a title, but keeping small bookshops open is important to me and enriching a tax-avoiding Jeff Bezos isn't.
My wife and I run a small publishing business (as a barely profitable sideline) and Daunt's in particular has been great about providing facilities for launches (as have Heffer's and Blackwell's). We always try to use UK-based freelancers and printers wherever possible, but I have to admit that we are very grateful that our US distributors also offer print on demand, which has saved our skins a bit with the current disruption to shipping. But without e-book sales, things would be pretty bleak at the moment.
My wife and I run a small publishing business (as a barely profitable sideline) and Daunt's in particular has been great about providing facilities for launches (as have Heffer's and Blackwell's). We always try to use UK-based freelancers and printers wherever possible, but I have to admit that we are very grateful that our US distributors also offer print on demand, which has saved our skins a bit with the current disruption to shipping. But without e-book sales, things would be pretty bleak at the moment.
In order of volume of books bought...
1 - eBay - Buy second hand for say £2 a book then give to a charity. (I see eBay as like a book library now, buy a book for £2, then you can sell it on eBay for £2 when you've read it. Scrap libraries I say). I also buy a lot of new books from eBay.
2 - Waterstones - I always think when entering "this will be dull" but usually come out with a pile of "must read" books and loads of others I really want to. They have such a great range.
3 - Years ago when I commuted in to London railway stations (maybe the WH Smith ??) had cheap paperbacks for sale at £1 each. So I was able to read all Dickens' stuff for a £1 each.
1 - eBay - Buy second hand for say £2 a book then give to a charity. (I see eBay as like a book library now, buy a book for £2, then you can sell it on eBay for £2 when you've read it. Scrap libraries I say). I also buy a lot of new books from eBay.
2 - Waterstones - I always think when entering "this will be dull" but usually come out with a pile of "must read" books and loads of others I really want to. They have such a great range.
3 - Years ago when I commuted in to London railway stations (maybe the WH Smith ??) had cheap paperbacks for sale at £1 each. So I was able to read all Dickens' stuff for a £1 each.
Macneil said:
I usually go to Waterstones because people buy me book tokens for Birthdays and Christmas.
I get the same, and it's great but I do struggle to pay £7.99 for a paperback even though it's effectively free. I do enjoy spotting the red "clearance" boxes though, sometimes there's a few decent things in there to read. Similarly a local WH Smiths used to have a basement full of clearance books, but they've revamped it recently and they're all a lot more expensive.Oxfam is one of the charity shops that I find a bit pricey for books, around here at least. I do give a lot of old books to them when I can finally persuade myself to part with them, because they have a "books bin" on a few local car parks, so I don't have to drag a heavy pile of books through the pedestrianised part of town and hope they're open. It's probably sealed up at the moment, which is a pity as I have time to sort some out.
Monkeylegend said:
The Works have re issues of older books at £2 per book or 3 for £5 which is good for brand new books, cheaper than many charity shops.
The Works is another one that often has "clearance" boxes with £1 paperbacks in. A few years back my local Works store ran a "Warehouse clearance" sale for a few weeks, but not like their usual clearance sales, these were proper discounts. I bought my first Stuart Macbride novels from that sale - brand new hardback books, marked down to 75p each, when I took them to the till I was charged 37p as it was "50% off day". I got a lot of stuff from there, and quite a few novels and the like that I wouldn't normally have thought of reading. Some turned out to be not my thing at all, but by the end they were giving stuff away free.I buy pretty much everything on Kindle these days. Instant delivery and loads of stuff on special offer. I've probably only read half a dozen paper books in the last 3 or 4 years, and can't remember when I last bought one. I used to be an avid paperback reader and have hundreds but I'm a real convert to Kindle.
My wife gets quite a few from charity shops, it's become a bit of a challenge to her to try and complete some series (Jack Reacher and a couple of other biggish and fairly popular series) buying only from charity shops so she'll usually go in for a browse.
My wife gets quite a few from charity shops, it's become a bit of a challenge to her to try and complete some series (Jack Reacher and a couple of other biggish and fairly popular series) buying only from charity shops so she'll usually go in for a browse.
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