The Lord of the Potters

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a

Original Poster:

439 posts

91 months

Thursday 22nd June 2017
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I just finished the Harry Potter series recently, and have now moved on to The Hobbit & The Lord of the Rings. I'm only about half way through The Fellowship of the Ring, but keep coming across things that make it obvious it must have been used as "inspiration" for Harry Potter...

- Orphan protagonist living with extended family, set on a "quest" out of nowhere, inheriting a one-off object which can make them invisible.
- Mysterious old powerful wizard who is constantly away on unknown business but always shows up in the nick of time, and knows a lot more than he shares.
- "The Dark Lord" who was an ultimate evil power, but was defeated, only to live on as a "shadow" in a forest, and is now regaining their strength, and only the protagonist can stop them.
- Faceless "Dark Riders" whose hoods entirely cover them, and bring cold and despair when they are near (almost exactly dementors).
- I have only just been introduced to Strider/Aragorn, but can already see that he's turning into a Sirius Black character.
- Mr Butterbur, the innkeeper... Butter bur... Butter beer...

Just me? biggrin

ozzuk

1,227 posts

134 months

Sunday 25th June 2017
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Just you..

wst

3,503 posts

168 months

Monday 26th June 2017
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Tolkien's work pretty much set the standard in fantasy, parallels can be drawn with all sorts of stuff. One is high fantasy, and one isn't, so really there's not a whole lot of overlap except in very broad concepts. You might as well have noticed that the stories have a beginning, middle and end and drawn conclusions from that.

Oliver James

64 posts

90 months

Thursday 29th June 2017
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Not to bash anyone's favourite books but I agree with OP. Harry Potter, as a series, takes a lot of "inspiration" from a lot of established fictional / fantasy tropes. Originality is a complex idea, what separates inspiration from outright imitation? I don't know, all I know is quite of lot of the ideas found in harry potter, particularly the earlier books, have definitely been "borrowed". I used to have an English Lit teacher in college who was prone to rants on this exact topic.

We should all commend JK Rowling though, writing a fantasy novel without accepting Tolkien's standardized world is no small feat. I read a lot of writing forums on reddit, /r worldbuilding, /r fantasywriters etc, and 100% of the fantasy fiction these hundreds, if not thousands, of aspiring authors all conform to Tolkien's high fantasy setting. Whats really crazy to me is that they create "tools" for character design, city building (just ways to flesh out your fictional word etc), and even these tools presume it has to be set in the same period of medieval England that all these stories are. They presume castles, sword fighting and the same 3 races you've seen re-done a hundred times before.

TL;DR JK Rowling might have "borrowed" a lot of her ideas which is unoriginal but at least she's unoriginal in an original way

jesusbuiltmycar

4,673 posts

261 months

Thursday 6th July 2017
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Oliver James said:
Not to bash anyone's favourite books but I agree with OP. Harry Potter, as a series, takes a lot of "inspiration" from a lot of established fictional / fantasy tropes. Originality is a complex idea, what separates inspiration from outright imitation? I don't know, all I know is quite of lot of the ideas found in harry potter, particularly the earlier books, have definitely been "borrowed". I used to have an English Lit teacher in college who was prone to rants on this exact topic.

We should all commend JK Rowling though, writing a fantasy novel without accepting Tolkien's standardized world is no small feat. I read a lot of writing forums on reddit, /r worldbuilding, /r fantasywriters etc, and 100% of the fantasy fiction these hundreds, if not thousands, of aspiring authors all conform to Tolkien's high fantasy setting. Whats really crazy to me is that they create "tools" for character design, city building (just ways to flesh out your fictional word etc), and even these tools presume it has to be set in the same period of medieval England that all these stories are. They presume castles, sword fighting and the same 3 races you've seen re-done a hundred times before.

TL;DR JK Rowling might have "borrowed" a lot of her ideas which is unoriginal but at least she's unoriginal in an original way
It is amazing how many fantasy series are set based in some form of Medieval Europe/England... The map of Westeros from GRRMs Game of Thrones even based on the UK...

MKnight702

3,199 posts

221 months

Thursday 6th July 2017
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jesusbuiltmycar said:
It is amazing how many fantasy series are set based in some form of Medieval Europe/England... The map of Westeros from GRRMs Game of Thrones even based on the UK...
Does that make Scotland the frozen north?

p1doc

3,215 posts

191 months

Thursday 6th July 2017
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MKnight702 said:
Does that make Scotland the frozen north?
did this morning drizzle and fog lol
pretty sure I read some article stating in fantasy novel they generally follow very similar storyline and likely writers unconsciously borrow ideas from their favourite novels

northwest monkey

6,370 posts

196 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
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It wasn't just the Tolkien books that influenced Harry Potter but I'd say there are also elements of the Narnia series in them as well.

To be fair to JK Rowling, that's true of a lot of books as well.

a

Original Poster:

439 posts

91 months

Monday 24th July 2017
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Having now finished the LOTR trilogy I still feel there are an awful lot of things taken straight out of it for Harry Potter, with very little modification. It's like LOTR in a modern setting. To expand on the original list:
- "The dark lord" nearly died but part of his soul stayed alive in a special bit of (seemingly indestructible) jewelry, and he can't be killed until it's destroyed.
- Army of big people/adults fighting the dark lord's army head-on to give the protagonist time to destroy the object
- Dumbledore/Gandalf basically the same thing
- Orphan protagonist inherits magical item that can make them invisible.
- Protagonist's family is split into two parts, one seeks adventure and the other wants to look normal and respectable.
- Nazgul/Dementors who look like floating capes and make you feel cold and despair
- Gandalf escaping a tower on an eagle / Sirius Black escaping a tower on an Eagle-like creature.
- Butterbur/Butter beer
- Shelob/Aragog - giant spiders with lots of children
- Dobby/Smeagol - similar physical descriptions, never quite sure what side they're on

Still, having said that, each was enjoyable in its own way.

CardinalFang

664 posts

175 months

Tuesday 1st August 2017
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a said:
Just me? biggrin
.

Nope! Try Harry Potter = Star Wars = Lion King = Madagascar, & probably dozens more blockbuster "quest", or "young prince coming of age/rite of passage" series.

Young boy prince on the brink of adolescence? Doesn't realise he's a prince? Convinced he's in the wrong place/time/family? There has to be more to life than this!
Dead parent, or orphaned?
Evil Uncle?
Apparition?
His is destiny revealed!
The quest to assume his destiny begins!
Confronts evil & kills/defeats/banishes uncle
fulfils destiny & assumes position on the throne as his father's rightful heir.
Happily ever after etc...

Mix & match/delete some components (witches & daggers etc); add variations as appropriate (good king/father & evil uncle are the same person for example in Star Wars)

Source? Hamlet. Some Disney exec published a paper on it a couple of decades ago "The 12 point Blockbuster plot", or something, but I've not been able to find it since. On the one hand it's bl**dy infuriating to keep spotting it time after time, but it's the classic story for any teenager unsure of who they are & their place in the world. Who doesn't think "There's definitely been a mix up at the hospital: this pair of idiots can't possibly be my parents...". And so the quest begins...Kerching!