Euro 6 van or Euro 4/5 for half the price?

[Before the music stops]

I'm starting to look at motorhomes as I want to spend more time travelling around the UK and Europe and can easily do with alongside work (which is mainly 'digital nomad' based for me nowadays.

My thoughts would be to be in the UK in the Spring and late Autumn, so do some travelling around in the UK, and then be in Europe for much of the summer (I am out of the UK all winter as I don't like the bad weather and short days). Because I want to use the van in the UK, this does point me towards buying in the UK and most likely RHD (I have property in Europe and dual nationality, so I could also buy LHD and keep in Europe, but I wouldn't then be able to bring it to the UK and drive under my UK licence).

I have been reading up on all of the Euro 6 fun and games and while it obviously makes sense to have a Euro 6 van, the prices are pretty sharp and the engines seem like a horror show (Fiat dual DPFs or Adblue, or Ford engines with dodgy injectors and destroyed engines). Iveco and Mercedes seem to be the better options, but prices, again, are stratospheric.

This got me thinking that rather than spending +/-£60k on a Euro 6 van (for reference, i am looking at something around 7.2-7.5m), i could go a little older and spend just over £30k. There will be places that I won't be able to drive (and these places are likely to increase in time) without Euro 6, but mainly it seems to be a case of paying to drive in places (ULEZ etc). Surely, i am going to struggle to end up forking out circa £30k in ULEZ fees and at the same time, i am unlikely to have the issues of Euro 6 engines. It seems that the Europeans don't much care about any of this and most of the motorhomes travelling up and down France and Spain are older.

[missing the VR6]

We deliberately bought a Euro6 van for future proofing and simplicity, would do it again if I could roll back time. We have a Fiat (2021 140ps auto, 6,000 miles on the clock) and haven't yet had AdBlue issues, did have a DPF issue 10 miles after picking it up, was explained very common with MoHo's as they sit around idling for a long periods of time, inclined to believe them, DPF was changed by FIAT under warranty.

I'd expect the Euro6 ones to retain more value long term, while you pay more now, you should recoup it on sale

[Before the music stops]

missing the VR6 said:

We deliberately bought a Euro6 van for future proofing and simplicity, would do it again if I could roll back time. We have a Fiat (2021 140ps auto, 6,000 miles on the clock) and haven't yet had AdBlue issues, did have a DPF issue 10 miles after picking it up, was explained very common with MoHo's as they sit around idling for a long periods of time, inclined to believe them, DPF was changed by FIAT under warranty.

I'd expect the Euro6 ones to retain more value long term, while you pay more now, you should recoup it on sale

so your Fiat van needed a new DPF at 6,000 miles? i think this helps to demonstrate the issue with euro 6 engines in motorhomes. the technology seems to work well in commercial usage, where the vehicle is being used constantly, but occasion and sporadic usage in motorhomes seems to cause endless issues (crystalising Adblue being one of them).

i am perhaps a bit more nervous than most about all of this as i recently had to fork out £13.5k to replace the engine in my VW Caravelle due to a 'known' EGR valve cooler issue, and despite having bought the vehicle from a VW dealer just over a year before, they refused to help in any way. The issue was caused 100% by the 'additional' gubbins added to the engine to bring it into line with modern emissions testing.

and as for depreciation... if my £60k Euro 6 van deprecitates by say 25% over the next 4yrs, i have lost £15k. if my £30k Euro 4/5 van depreciates by 50% over the same period, i have lost the same amount, but with less input at the front end.

I'm certainly not anti spending more for a Euro 6 van, but i am trying to look at it from all angles. obviously, one big positive is that the van will be much newer, with less wear and (potentially) better quality construction with less scope for damp issues.

[Spuffington]

Interesting conundrum this. I currently have a Knaus BoxDrive600XL on MAN TGE which is a Euro6 but unfortunately up for sale (family outgrown it). I was happy buying the Knaus on Euro6 so as to future-proof the vehicle with us but that was before the 3rd child arrived.

I'm now looking at Burstner Argos 747 - the more recent Euro6 do seem to be holding firm whilst the Euro5 are also around 50% cheaper. I actually looked at buying the Euro5 and then spending a decent wedge getting it upgraded to Euro6 and still being quids in. Hadn't looked at it the way you are coming at it from.

[Before the music stops]

My thinking is now shifting in the direction of something like a +/-2015 Rapido 9090DF with an Iveco 3.0 and plated to around 4.500kgs. While this means lower speed limits and my wife having to do her C1, it does mean cheaper tax, more relaxed emissions restrictions here and Europe (from what I can work out), a way more reliable engine (chain driven and no AdBlue), the layout we like and the ability of have a small tow car.

What am I missing?

[POIDH]

I've Euro 5 rather than Euro 6 high top, the cost saving being huge and my reasoning being:
- how many times will I actually want to drive into a city centre on holiday? I'm more a country, islands and mountains person.
- and will those few city centres be ULEZ?
- how many of those city centres will have a carpark without height restrictions, or in an area I'm comfortable leaving my valuable vehicle?
- I can use park and ride, much easier that driving into city centre. I've done this three times now.
- if all the lemons alight, it's still a lot cheaper to pay £30-60 to go into a ULEZ city centre for a day.

Edited by POIDH on Saturday 9th November 19:02

[chopper602]

I also have a Knaus, but it seems to be a sweet spot of being Euro 6 without AdBlue (Fiat Ducato MY 2019, registered 2020). <Fingers crossed> I've not had any DPF problems (did on my previous 2012 Ducato) - yet, but it does get driven hard quite a lot.

ULEZ, especially in Germany doesn't work like in London. You can't pay to access a city centre, you just can't go in without the correct 'Green' emissions sticker.

[alangla]

chopper602 said:

I also have a Knaus, but it seems to be a sweet spot of being Euro 6 without AdBlue (Fiat Ducato MY 2019, registered 2020). <Fingers crossed> I've not had any DPF problems (did on my previous 2012 Ducato) - yet, but it does get driven hard quite a lot.

ULEZ, especially in Germany doesn't work like in London. You can't pay to access a city centre, you just can't go in without the correct 'Green' emissions sticker.

Worth pointing out that it’s the same in Scotland. It’s an escalating fine for entering in a vehicle that doesn’t meet the emissions standards. In saying that, you should be able to park & ride without too much trouble, albeit Glasgow is more rail stations with large car parks rather than formal park & ride.

https://lowemissionzones.scot/about

Edit: Dundee and Aberdeen’s are currently small enough that parking on the edge and walking should be viable, but Edinburgh and especially Glasgow’s are bigger.

Edited by alangla on Monday 11th November 12:35

[missing the VR6]

Before the music stops said:

so your Fiat van needed a new DPF at 6,000 miles? i think this helps to demonstrate the issue with euro 6 engines in motorhomes. the technology seems to work well in commercial usage, where the vehicle is being used constantly, but occasion and sporadic usage in motorhomes seems to cause endless issues (crystalising Adblue being one of them).

i am perhaps a bit more nervous than most about all of this as i recently had to fork out £13.5k to replace the engine in my VW Caravelle due to a 'known' EGR valve cooler issue, and despite having bought the vehicle from a VW dealer just over a year before, they refused to help in any way. The issue was caused 100% by the 'additional' gubbins added to the engine to bring it into line with modern emissions testing.

and as for depreciation... if my £60k Euro 6 van deprecitates by say 25% over the next 4yrs, i have lost £15k. if my £30k Euro 4/5 van depreciates by 50% over the same period, i have lost the same amount, but with less input at the front end.

I'm certainly not anti spending more for a Euro 6 van, but i am trying to look at it from all angles. obviously, one big positive is that the van will be much newer, with less wear and (potentially) better quality construction with less scope for damp issues.

The DPF issue happened after we'd had the car 10 miles, so took the mechanics word when he said it had probably been idling a lot and the DPF hadn't got hot. In the 12,000 miles we've put on it, we've had zero DPF issues.

Appreciate that one won't deliberately go to cities in a MoHo often, but the sat nav may well route you through as we found on our first trip to France, We ended up going through Rouen and had zero reason to be concerned. Euroipe has many more ULEZ zones than the UK.

For us the Euro 6 Fiat also got a proper autobox as opposed to automated manual which are universally poo.

[nagsheadwarrior]

euro 6 x7 ducato based with the uveco 2.3 from 17-20 is a sweet spot, dodges the ad blue and a lot of the electronic problems of the x8