Fulltime camper spec - your wishlist
Discussion
Hi all,
We have recently purchased a (takes deep breath) 2009 Mercedes Vario 815D LWB 4wd high-roof van as a basis for a camper conversion. I say we as we started out as a service & repair garage before branching out into restorations (landrovers, rangerovers and g wagens) and now this!
The van was sold new as an emergency services remote command centre. The spec and original purchase cost is fairly ridiculous, it came with a monstrous OEM service history and is absolutely rust free. A great base to work from, it will be getting a full mech and structural refurb back to ‘as new’ condition before we move into the conversion phase.
The build will be done as a test case and sold thereafter. Hence my partner and I will inevitably have some disagreement when it comes to spec/cost vs resale. Budget is realistic and healthy but we seek to maximize appeal and profit, not attain the max selling price or chase a niche buyer.
We plan to view some of the local competition’s offerings (non UK) but throwing open the floor to hear of what are the must haves and must avoids when speccing the build. Assume fit, finish and materials are all high end, I’m looking to create an equipment list really, with a secondary overview on practicality. If you want an awning, do you want it electrically operated, for example.
We have done a good deal of research so have our own list and view on things but I won’t divulge this for now, would be interesting to get your thoughts first. Keen to hear what is necessary for long trips and what works in the field. What’s annoying when you go away on long camping/road trips so we can think how we could resolve that.
It has onboard standalone hydraulic and pneumatic systems, single and 3 phase shore power connections, provision for an onboard generator, full a/c, etc. Some of this may stay (e.g self leveling hydraulic system), be relocated or repurposed, or junked.
I do have 3 specific questions.
Is ground clearance really a requirement for a 7.2m long 7.5t vehicle? Comes as standard with dual tyres on the back axle and converting to larger diameter singles means a change of class. Even with a lift and large tyres the departure angle in particular will always be woeful. These vehicles tend to be built as expedition rigs, but even looking at those I just can’t see them tackling more than light trails. Lift kits, winches and sand ladders look cool to a certain demographic, but I wonder if they are needed.
The rear compartment A/C system is pretty mega but does encroach on headroom (albeit I’m 6’2 and can still stand fully upright) and needs a 400V input. We could either keep it and convert to 240V or remove it and put a pop up top in its place. This would cover the entire area between the drivers compartment and the bed deck. Which would you prefer to have?
How does it work in practice for power hookup, water filling and emptying grey/black tanks, etc? I’ve never been in a motorhome. Is is different across Europe? I’m thinking retractable reels for shore power and water connections so need to understand connection types, if pumps need to be onboard etc.
So, go full on spec, and then tell me about practicalities and whats nice to have but not really needed. Cheers!
We have recently purchased a (takes deep breath) 2009 Mercedes Vario 815D LWB 4wd high-roof van as a basis for a camper conversion. I say we as we started out as a service & repair garage before branching out into restorations (landrovers, rangerovers and g wagens) and now this!
The van was sold new as an emergency services remote command centre. The spec and original purchase cost is fairly ridiculous, it came with a monstrous OEM service history and is absolutely rust free. A great base to work from, it will be getting a full mech and structural refurb back to ‘as new’ condition before we move into the conversion phase.
The build will be done as a test case and sold thereafter. Hence my partner and I will inevitably have some disagreement when it comes to spec/cost vs resale. Budget is realistic and healthy but we seek to maximize appeal and profit, not attain the max selling price or chase a niche buyer.
We plan to view some of the local competition’s offerings (non UK) but throwing open the floor to hear of what are the must haves and must avoids when speccing the build. Assume fit, finish and materials are all high end, I’m looking to create an equipment list really, with a secondary overview on practicality. If you want an awning, do you want it electrically operated, for example.
We have done a good deal of research so have our own list and view on things but I won’t divulge this for now, would be interesting to get your thoughts first. Keen to hear what is necessary for long trips and what works in the field. What’s annoying when you go away on long camping/road trips so we can think how we could resolve that.
It has onboard standalone hydraulic and pneumatic systems, single and 3 phase shore power connections, provision for an onboard generator, full a/c, etc. Some of this may stay (e.g self leveling hydraulic system), be relocated or repurposed, or junked.
I do have 3 specific questions.
Is ground clearance really a requirement for a 7.2m long 7.5t vehicle? Comes as standard with dual tyres on the back axle and converting to larger diameter singles means a change of class. Even with a lift and large tyres the departure angle in particular will always be woeful. These vehicles tend to be built as expedition rigs, but even looking at those I just can’t see them tackling more than light trails. Lift kits, winches and sand ladders look cool to a certain demographic, but I wonder if they are needed.
The rear compartment A/C system is pretty mega but does encroach on headroom (albeit I’m 6’2 and can still stand fully upright) and needs a 400V input. We could either keep it and convert to 240V or remove it and put a pop up top in its place. This would cover the entire area between the drivers compartment and the bed deck. Which would you prefer to have?
How does it work in practice for power hookup, water filling and emptying grey/black tanks, etc? I’ve never been in a motorhome. Is is different across Europe? I’m thinking retractable reels for shore power and water connections so need to understand connection types, if pumps need to be onboard etc.
So, go full on spec, and then tell me about practicalities and whats nice to have but not really needed. Cheers!
egor110 said:
Have a look at the Hymer adventure s .
I’ve read spuffington’s excellent (heart wrenching, relatable and affirming) full time thread and will look at his others for touring anecdotes. egor110 said:
If your building it as a adventure van i'd want a garage or storage area to put mountainbikes , paddleboards , probably under the bed with access thru the back doors .
Really good wifi .
Auto gearbox ( i really don't get why people buy new m/h with manual gears )
It’s an auto, and starlink seems a good option for WiFi. Really good wifi .
Auto gearbox ( i really don't get why people buy new m/h with manual gears )
Unsure as to do an adventure or touring build yet, hence the ground clearance question. I spent a couple of weeks in Switzerland this month and saw some decently specced rigs almost every time I went on the highway, I’d say adventure types are most prevalent. Just that our thoughts are more towards what makes them saleable and as this is a commercial venture not a personal one.
Really depends on the type of person you are, and your intended use. I've been driving and sleeping in my car (Merc GL) and a tent for a while, all the while spec'ing-up my ultimate camper to go places other people do not - snow and deserts are my thing. I guess that fits your "adventure" brief.
Whilst I would like ground clearance, I don't intend to purposefully take it anywhere simply to explore its capabilities. I am no green-laner or rock-crawler. I would just like to be able to go down deeply rutted tracks without clouting the underside, and potentially fording shallow water. Larger wheels are useful but portals give you even more clearance - albeit at a fantastically high cost. Proper 4WD too, not the limited system Mercedes installs in their vans. Again, expensive. However, portals actually take some of the strain off the gearbox.
My GL has height adjustable airbags. I've had to use that very few times, and usually only as a precaution when driving into water but once was to crawl over some rocks (pathetically narrow road in Devon of all places, with a passing place lined with rocks), and once when I was ploughing snow with my bumper in Sweden. Ground clearance is useful.
Driving on sand is a major problem though. The sorts of massive tyres you need for that are no good anywhere else so I tend to avoid sand where I can. So far I've only taken the GL onto beaches where there's a notably "stiffer" surface, and I've not been stuck yet but it does worry me and I try not to stop on sand at all. I have only driven on sand to get to somewhere to park. Deserts can be rocky and sandy in equal measure so when I get there, I will just try to act sensibly.
As much as I love portals (if you work with G-classes, you'll have seen the Tibus portals), I am not interested in central tyre inflation systems. That's just a level of complexity I don't need. To fully take advantage of that, you should be spec'ing bead lockers on the inside and outside. I prefer to just not take chances. My objective is to get to my daily destination, not to test myself or my vehicle unduly.
Also, lots of power to maintain motorway speeds but also because there's never too much power when your rig is 4 or 5 tonnes. Some of the parking spots on the cliffs in northern Spain involve a decent climb. The GL pulls itself up them easily but it's not even 3-tonnes when fully loaded. Oh, and simplicity = no computers for the engine. The OM642 in the GL is complex and the whole car must have a dozen different computers which occasionally throw up warning lights. I'd like a simpler van with an OM606. So far I haven't settled on a gearbox but it must be an auto. I would like to keep it all "Mercedes" for no real reason other than Mercedes being a one stop shop if I ever need parts or help but I don't know if it's practical to expect a solution all from Merc.
I personally think solar is pointless in a camper. It's fine in a caravan that doesn't move for weeks at a time but a camper is always on the move, so charge your batteries from the alternator (may need an uprated alternator). It's massively quicker and you really don't need much in the way of battery capacity either if you plan to replace all your chargers with 12v versions. You might want an inverter for some 240v but keep it as much DC as you can. I found 12v chargers for my laptop, my DeWalt impact gun (wheel nuts - honestly I only take it because I already have it), my toothbrush, and all my bike lights. I've considered building a PC into the interior of a van rather than taking a laptop. Pros and cons...
Definitely cook with gas, not electric. I mean, induction is great but takes a lot of electrical power and if it breaks leaves you with a difficult-to-fix problem. Gas is universally used so you'll always find a fix however different countries have different gas bottles. There are at least three different types of regulators in Europe alone (different threads), along with different size and shape of bottles. Leave enough space in your gas bottle cupboard for them all, and carry regulators for all. I was talking with my neighbour (caravanner) who described a triple regulator attachment he'd seen.
Makes sense to have a double bed at chest height at the back to provide a garage space underneath accessible from the rear double doors. Not sure if those doors need strengthening to hold bikes on racks but you'll want a steel bumper back there to hinge two spare wheels off... if you're going far off the beaten track and/or have an unusual size tyre.
Non-military paint. I don't want to be confused with one side or another in any local political disagreements. I had intended to drive through western Russia at one point until Putin spoiled my plans, and I have no idea what to expect in Turkmenistan (one destination I have plans for). Equally, I don't want too-lairy a paintjob either so as to avoid making myself a target for thieves. It's this reason why I'm not 100% certain I'd put the bikes on the back despite the above. Maybe have that capability for some friendlier places but have space in the garage for bikes (with wheels off). Truth is, despite my wanting to cycle in all the warmer places I go, I will always worry about someone stealing the van. I've thought about mitigations for that including removable steering wheel, and secretly-located switches linked to the ignition. This kind of thing was popular in Poland when I met my (now ex) wife 25 years ago. I've also looked at dead locks but you either have to have them remotely triggerable (and what do you do if that fails?) or some sort of hidden trigger for them accessible outside of the vehicle. It's a problem I don't have a solution for. People in Sweden leave caravans at extremely remote locations in the northern hills, and only go to them at weekends when they go ice fishing and/or ski-do-ing. Either no-one tries to break into their caravans or they have solutions I'm unaware of.
Room for clothes. Doesn't have to be hanging space - I don't dress that way. Just need enough space for enough clothes so I'm not always looking for somewhere to wash them.
Shower and toilet. I personally prefer Thetford toilets but different people have different opinions. The shower does not need to be large, and the cubicle door can double as a wardrobe or cupboard - there are a few clever inventions on YouTube like this.
How much water you can carry depends on space underneath - you want it low down. I reckon if you can get a tonne of water underneath you'd be doing well. Whatever you put under there, insulate it well. I've considered routing a pipe through the water tank to blow warm air through it from a diesel heater. I faced -29 degrees in Norway overnight on one trip. All the water inside the car froze solid - I didn't have a diesel heater but those water bottles experienced the equivalent of underslung water tanks.
Block heater - at some places in Scandinavia (and Canada, I've been told) you can park close to Hotels and other establishments enough to run a cable to the mains from a relatively low powered coil screwed into your engine block which keeps it from freezing. They're cheap too but I have only ever seen one such Hotel offer this service, so I wondered if there was a solution that involved plumbing the diesel heater into the engine's coolant circuit, coupled with an electric water pump. And while you're at it can this and/or the engine be used to heat water for a shower? Is it even practical to store hot water?
I've never been certain what the freezing point for winter diesel is because everything I've read suggests it waxes at around -9.5C however I've been in extended periods of cold that are much lower than that with the Merc GL which isn't usually known for its tolerance of out of spec components, yet I've never experienced issues of fuel starvation. That said, the 4WD system I've looked at for the Sprinter involves replacing the fuel tank with one that is shaped to avoid the transfer box, so maybe a custom tank could route some of the diesel heater warm air through or around it. Plans for that are still a work in progress.
I've no use for an awning and I don't want anything on top of the roof other than low-profile fan-outlets and maybe a Starlink antenna, although if that sticks up above the fan outlets then I'd rather have a removable one. The van will be tall enough as it stands, and I worry about increasing the CoG.
That said (about the awning), one chap I saw in Spain had a thick sheet of hessian-type material which threaded onto the side of his van like a caravan awning does, and could be pegged out a short distance from the van. It acted as a kind of porch-entrance when sand was kicked-up by the wind. He had a triangle sewn into one end so he could orient it for entry/exit to the front or to the rear depending on wind direction. It was really simple, lightweight, cheap and effective. There are probably commercial variants so I haven't dismissed the idea entirely.
I've been to a few of the motorhome shows at the NEC over the last 3 years. There are always a few ideas but they don't seem to appeal to the adventurist as much as I'd like. From what I've seen on YouTube, those kinds of companies show in the US or Australia.
Whilst I would like ground clearance, I don't intend to purposefully take it anywhere simply to explore its capabilities. I am no green-laner or rock-crawler. I would just like to be able to go down deeply rutted tracks without clouting the underside, and potentially fording shallow water. Larger wheels are useful but portals give you even more clearance - albeit at a fantastically high cost. Proper 4WD too, not the limited system Mercedes installs in their vans. Again, expensive. However, portals actually take some of the strain off the gearbox.
My GL has height adjustable airbags. I've had to use that very few times, and usually only as a precaution when driving into water but once was to crawl over some rocks (pathetically narrow road in Devon of all places, with a passing place lined with rocks), and once when I was ploughing snow with my bumper in Sweden. Ground clearance is useful.
Driving on sand is a major problem though. The sorts of massive tyres you need for that are no good anywhere else so I tend to avoid sand where I can. So far I've only taken the GL onto beaches where there's a notably "stiffer" surface, and I've not been stuck yet but it does worry me and I try not to stop on sand at all. I have only driven on sand to get to somewhere to park. Deserts can be rocky and sandy in equal measure so when I get there, I will just try to act sensibly.
As much as I love portals (if you work with G-classes, you'll have seen the Tibus portals), I am not interested in central tyre inflation systems. That's just a level of complexity I don't need. To fully take advantage of that, you should be spec'ing bead lockers on the inside and outside. I prefer to just not take chances. My objective is to get to my daily destination, not to test myself or my vehicle unduly.
Also, lots of power to maintain motorway speeds but also because there's never too much power when your rig is 4 or 5 tonnes. Some of the parking spots on the cliffs in northern Spain involve a decent climb. The GL pulls itself up them easily but it's not even 3-tonnes when fully loaded. Oh, and simplicity = no computers for the engine. The OM642 in the GL is complex and the whole car must have a dozen different computers which occasionally throw up warning lights. I'd like a simpler van with an OM606. So far I haven't settled on a gearbox but it must be an auto. I would like to keep it all "Mercedes" for no real reason other than Mercedes being a one stop shop if I ever need parts or help but I don't know if it's practical to expect a solution all from Merc.
I personally think solar is pointless in a camper. It's fine in a caravan that doesn't move for weeks at a time but a camper is always on the move, so charge your batteries from the alternator (may need an uprated alternator). It's massively quicker and you really don't need much in the way of battery capacity either if you plan to replace all your chargers with 12v versions. You might want an inverter for some 240v but keep it as much DC as you can. I found 12v chargers for my laptop, my DeWalt impact gun (wheel nuts - honestly I only take it because I already have it), my toothbrush, and all my bike lights. I've considered building a PC into the interior of a van rather than taking a laptop. Pros and cons...
Definitely cook with gas, not electric. I mean, induction is great but takes a lot of electrical power and if it breaks leaves you with a difficult-to-fix problem. Gas is universally used so you'll always find a fix however different countries have different gas bottles. There are at least three different types of regulators in Europe alone (different threads), along with different size and shape of bottles. Leave enough space in your gas bottle cupboard for them all, and carry regulators for all. I was talking with my neighbour (caravanner) who described a triple regulator attachment he'd seen.
Makes sense to have a double bed at chest height at the back to provide a garage space underneath accessible from the rear double doors. Not sure if those doors need strengthening to hold bikes on racks but you'll want a steel bumper back there to hinge two spare wheels off... if you're going far off the beaten track and/or have an unusual size tyre.
Non-military paint. I don't want to be confused with one side or another in any local political disagreements. I had intended to drive through western Russia at one point until Putin spoiled my plans, and I have no idea what to expect in Turkmenistan (one destination I have plans for). Equally, I don't want too-lairy a paintjob either so as to avoid making myself a target for thieves. It's this reason why I'm not 100% certain I'd put the bikes on the back despite the above. Maybe have that capability for some friendlier places but have space in the garage for bikes (with wheels off). Truth is, despite my wanting to cycle in all the warmer places I go, I will always worry about someone stealing the van. I've thought about mitigations for that including removable steering wheel, and secretly-located switches linked to the ignition. This kind of thing was popular in Poland when I met my (now ex) wife 25 years ago. I've also looked at dead locks but you either have to have them remotely triggerable (and what do you do if that fails?) or some sort of hidden trigger for them accessible outside of the vehicle. It's a problem I don't have a solution for. People in Sweden leave caravans at extremely remote locations in the northern hills, and only go to them at weekends when they go ice fishing and/or ski-do-ing. Either no-one tries to break into their caravans or they have solutions I'm unaware of.
Room for clothes. Doesn't have to be hanging space - I don't dress that way. Just need enough space for enough clothes so I'm not always looking for somewhere to wash them.
Shower and toilet. I personally prefer Thetford toilets but different people have different opinions. The shower does not need to be large, and the cubicle door can double as a wardrobe or cupboard - there are a few clever inventions on YouTube like this.
How much water you can carry depends on space underneath - you want it low down. I reckon if you can get a tonne of water underneath you'd be doing well. Whatever you put under there, insulate it well. I've considered routing a pipe through the water tank to blow warm air through it from a diesel heater. I faced -29 degrees in Norway overnight on one trip. All the water inside the car froze solid - I didn't have a diesel heater but those water bottles experienced the equivalent of underslung water tanks.
Block heater - at some places in Scandinavia (and Canada, I've been told) you can park close to Hotels and other establishments enough to run a cable to the mains from a relatively low powered coil screwed into your engine block which keeps it from freezing. They're cheap too but I have only ever seen one such Hotel offer this service, so I wondered if there was a solution that involved plumbing the diesel heater into the engine's coolant circuit, coupled with an electric water pump. And while you're at it can this and/or the engine be used to heat water for a shower? Is it even practical to store hot water?
I've never been certain what the freezing point for winter diesel is because everything I've read suggests it waxes at around -9.5C however I've been in extended periods of cold that are much lower than that with the Merc GL which isn't usually known for its tolerance of out of spec components, yet I've never experienced issues of fuel starvation. That said, the 4WD system I've looked at for the Sprinter involves replacing the fuel tank with one that is shaped to avoid the transfer box, so maybe a custom tank could route some of the diesel heater warm air through or around it. Plans for that are still a work in progress.
I've no use for an awning and I don't want anything on top of the roof other than low-profile fan-outlets and maybe a Starlink antenna, although if that sticks up above the fan outlets then I'd rather have a removable one. The van will be tall enough as it stands, and I worry about increasing the CoG.
That said (about the awning), one chap I saw in Spain had a thick sheet of hessian-type material which threaded onto the side of his van like a caravan awning does, and could be pegged out a short distance from the van. It acted as a kind of porch-entrance when sand was kicked-up by the wind. He had a triangle sewn into one end so he could orient it for entry/exit to the front or to the rear depending on wind direction. It was really simple, lightweight, cheap and effective. There are probably commercial variants so I haven't dismissed the idea entirely.
I've been to a few of the motorhome shows at the NEC over the last 3 years. There are always a few ideas but they don't seem to appeal to the adventurist as much as I'd like. From what I've seen on YouTube, those kinds of companies show in the US or Australia.
Edited by Mars on Sunday 28th July 01:46
I guess I'm seeing this thread very late in the day, but I'd say you're onto a very niche market whichever way you go as everyone will have their own idea as to what makes a good adventure van. Everyone has their on idea of the perfect adventure and how they want to go about it.
For me, I would need space to store mountain bikes and maybe even a motorbike, so I can park the van in one place for some time and explore my surroundings easily. I need a decent amount of fresh water (and waste water space), and a decent amount of solar to keep the batteries topped-up when I'm not driving for a few days. EHU is a simple addition and will be useful when staying on campsites.
There's lots of pictures on social media of van lifers parked at the beach with the doors open, relaxing in bed with a view of the sea. I've never made that work, there's always too much wind, mozzies to keep out, etc. I'd rather have a way to hang a hammock from the van and keep the doors shut.
I have a gas system in my current van, with a LPG tank. I've found it easy enough to refill on my travels but that's only in Europe. I use it for heating and cooking.
I think the most important part for me is how the interior is arranged for all the day-to-day stuff we never think of. Space to store clothes is obvious, but where that space is can be really handy or really annoying in practice. Imagine yourself getting ready for a day's hike in the morning, 2 of you in the van trying to get washed up and dressed, making and eating breakfast, etc. It's difficult not to get in each other's way the whole time.
Also, I'm going to redo a lof of my storage with less of a focus on making it look slick and house-like, and make it more camper-friendly. Drawers and cupboards are a pain, I'm going to build small high-sided boxes that lock into racks instead, that way things can't fall out and should be easier to organise. It's less of a focus on full-time but it also allows you to take the boxes in the house to pack with all the stuff you want to take and stow them in the van easily.
For me, I would need space to store mountain bikes and maybe even a motorbike, so I can park the van in one place for some time and explore my surroundings easily. I need a decent amount of fresh water (and waste water space), and a decent amount of solar to keep the batteries topped-up when I'm not driving for a few days. EHU is a simple addition and will be useful when staying on campsites.
There's lots of pictures on social media of van lifers parked at the beach with the doors open, relaxing in bed with a view of the sea. I've never made that work, there's always too much wind, mozzies to keep out, etc. I'd rather have a way to hang a hammock from the van and keep the doors shut.
I have a gas system in my current van, with a LPG tank. I've found it easy enough to refill on my travels but that's only in Europe. I use it for heating and cooking.
I think the most important part for me is how the interior is arranged for all the day-to-day stuff we never think of. Space to store clothes is obvious, but where that space is can be really handy or really annoying in practice. Imagine yourself getting ready for a day's hike in the morning, 2 of you in the van trying to get washed up and dressed, making and eating breakfast, etc. It's difficult not to get in each other's way the whole time.
Also, I'm going to redo a lof of my storage with less of a focus on making it look slick and house-like, and make it more camper-friendly. Drawers and cupboards are a pain, I'm going to build small high-sided boxes that lock into racks instead, that way things can't fall out and should be easier to organise. It's less of a focus on full-time but it also allows you to take the boxes in the house to pack with all the stuff you want to take and stow them in the van easily.
Alex@POD said:
I guess I'm seeing this thread very late in the day, but I'd say you're onto a very niche market whichever way you go as everyone will have their own idea as to what makes a good adventure van. Everyone has their on idea of the perfect adventure and how they want to go about it.
For me, I would need space to store mountain bikes and maybe even a motorbike, so I can park the van in one place for some time and explore my surroundings easily. I need a decent amount of fresh water (and waste water space), and a decent amount of solar to keep the batteries topped-up when I'm not driving for a few days. EHU is a simple addition and will be useful when staying on campsites.
There's lots of pictures on social media of van lifers parked at the beach with the doors open, relaxing in bed with a view of the sea. I've never made that work, there's always too much wind, mozzies to keep out, etc. I'd rather have a way to hang a hammock from the van and keep the doors shut.
I have a gas system in my current van, with a LPG tank. I've found it easy enough to refill on my travels but that's only in Europe. I use it for heating and cooking.
I think the most important part for me is how the interior is arranged for all the day-to-day stuff we never think of. Space to store clothes is obvious, but where that space is can be really handy or really annoying in practice. Imagine yourself getting ready for a day's hike in the morning, 2 of you in the van trying to get washed up and dressed, making and eating breakfast, etc. It's difficult not to get in each other's way the whole time.
Also, I'm going to redo a lof of my storage with less of a focus on making it look slick and house-like, and make it more camper-friendly. Drawers and cupboards are a pain, I'm going to build small high-sided boxes that lock into racks instead, that way things can't fall out and should be easier to organise. It's less of a focus on full-time but it also allows you to take the boxes in the house to pack with all the stuff you want to take and stow them in the van easily.
Boxes are exactly how I've organised my garage at home. Often I find I need to take tools or materials away from home, so having them in boxes already just makes it easier to move to the car.For me, I would need space to store mountain bikes and maybe even a motorbike, so I can park the van in one place for some time and explore my surroundings easily. I need a decent amount of fresh water (and waste water space), and a decent amount of solar to keep the batteries topped-up when I'm not driving for a few days. EHU is a simple addition and will be useful when staying on campsites.
There's lots of pictures on social media of van lifers parked at the beach with the doors open, relaxing in bed with a view of the sea. I've never made that work, there's always too much wind, mozzies to keep out, etc. I'd rather have a way to hang a hammock from the van and keep the doors shut.
I have a gas system in my current van, with a LPG tank. I've found it easy enough to refill on my travels but that's only in Europe. I use it for heating and cooking.
I think the most important part for me is how the interior is arranged for all the day-to-day stuff we never think of. Space to store clothes is obvious, but where that space is can be really handy or really annoying in practice. Imagine yourself getting ready for a day's hike in the morning, 2 of you in the van trying to get washed up and dressed, making and eating breakfast, etc. It's difficult not to get in each other's way the whole time.
Also, I'm going to redo a lof of my storage with less of a focus on making it look slick and house-like, and make it more camper-friendly. Drawers and cupboards are a pain, I'm going to build small high-sided boxes that lock into racks instead, that way things can't fall out and should be easier to organise. It's less of a focus on full-time but it also allows you to take the boxes in the house to pack with all the stuff you want to take and stow them in the van easily.
Also 100% agree about access to clothes. I've never found a really suitable layout for a van in this regard but I have always adopted the same approach as the "storage" overall, more boxes. I find that even when I go on holiday to a hotel, I never unpack my suitcase. I just leave everything in there and retrieve it when I need it. But then, I don't do "dress up".
Agreed. I built lightweight shelves in out MH's wardrobe because of this.
Interesting conundrum OP. AIUI/RC you're in the Middle East somewhere? Suspect aircon will be more of an issue if so.
I'd also question the wisdom of trying to use something that size and weight for off road travel in any meaningful way. So lifts etc are pointless. Focus on a solid build that won't shake itself to bits in the first mile of corrugations.
ETA the van life w
kers in the UK make me chuckle with their jacked up vans with BFG ATs and sand ladders strapped to the side.
Interesting conundrum OP. AIUI/RC you're in the Middle East somewhere? Suspect aircon will be more of an issue if so.
I'd also question the wisdom of trying to use something that size and weight for off road travel in any meaningful way. So lifts etc are pointless. Focus on a solid build that won't shake itself to bits in the first mile of corrugations.
ETA the van life w
kers in the UK make me chuckle with their jacked up vans with BFG ATs and sand ladders strapped to the side.Yes the idea is a rough road vehicle, not off-road. I have driven a 7.5t truck over dunes but wouldn’t recommend it.
Thanks for the comments so far, it’s all going in the mix. We’ve attended a couple of exhibitions to check out the competition and believe we can exceed their quality level.
Approach is not to create a Swiss Army knife, a lot of the build vids we’ve seen seem to be all about fold out this and fold out that but it seems much more of a faff than anything. We have enough space to minimize all that and focus on building something that is easy to live with and hassle free. Last thing I’d want if I were mountain biking or hiking all day would be to have to configure my living area to clean/change, again to cook/eat and again to sleep.
We’re most of the way through stripping it now. Big job, it’s very well lit together as befits what was probably a €300k van originally. It was fitted with 3 ac systems and I needed the engine crane to lift the compressors out of the back! It was configured for single and 3 phase. We’re converting that to single and 24v.
Biggest decision still to make is whether to make it a 2 or 3 person van. It will have a fixed double bed above the garage. Adding a 3rd seat is easy (we are using reupholstered seats from a discovery 4, miles better than the cheapy merc commercial ones) but then that person needs somewhere to sleep.
Next biggest is whether to close off the cab completely with a bulkhead or have free walkthrough access. A friend is currently traversing Africa in his overland vehicle and reckons the former is better from a security PoV, he’s had his cab pilfered from during unattended shipping / port clearance but the main body has remained secure.
Thanks for the comments so far, it’s all going in the mix. We’ve attended a couple of exhibitions to check out the competition and believe we can exceed their quality level.
Approach is not to create a Swiss Army knife, a lot of the build vids we’ve seen seem to be all about fold out this and fold out that but it seems much more of a faff than anything. We have enough space to minimize all that and focus on building something that is easy to live with and hassle free. Last thing I’d want if I were mountain biking or hiking all day would be to have to configure my living area to clean/change, again to cook/eat and again to sleep.
We’re most of the way through stripping it now. Big job, it’s very well lit together as befits what was probably a €300k van originally. It was fitted with 3 ac systems and I needed the engine crane to lift the compressors out of the back! It was configured for single and 3 phase. We’re converting that to single and 24v.
Biggest decision still to make is whether to make it a 2 or 3 person van. It will have a fixed double bed above the garage. Adding a 3rd seat is easy (we are using reupholstered seats from a discovery 4, miles better than the cheapy merc commercial ones) but then that person needs somewhere to sleep.
Next biggest is whether to close off the cab completely with a bulkhead or have free walkthrough access. A friend is currently traversing Africa in his overland vehicle and reckons the former is better from a security PoV, he’s had his cab pilfered from during unattended shipping / port clearance but the main body has remained secure.
Bulkhead or not is interesting, perhaps your friend was targeted because they had a bulkhead, didn’t bother to cover the windows for privacy etc.
The front is a big window, with a solid bulkhead you’re removing a view and access to natural light. If you decide to go with a bulkhead consider getting a a large window put in it to allow light through if you want it.
If I was going to convert a larger vehicle I’d want proper clothing storage, no living out of bags. The usual toilet and shower facilities and a normal mattress so bedding actually fits properly.
The front is a big window, with a solid bulkhead you’re removing a view and access to natural light. If you decide to go with a bulkhead consider getting a a large window put in it to allow light through if you want it.
If I was going to convert a larger vehicle I’d want proper clothing storage, no living out of bags. The usual toilet and shower facilities and a normal mattress so bedding actually fits properly.
It was broken into during shipping from here to Namibia, I would guess at the port. His is a separate cab with box back, a Mitsubishi Fuso I think.
But yes light and access is more of a consideration imo, although worth investigating more secure door locks.
Yes we will fit rear flares to allow a full size double mattress. Shower tray will be full size with a drop down wooden grid/floor and pull out toilet. I’d hate to need to use the loo and it was soaking wet. Similarly I don’t understand why a lot of builds but the toilet right next to the bed.
But yes light and access is more of a consideration imo, although worth investigating more secure door locks.
Yes we will fit rear flares to allow a full size double mattress. Shower tray will be full size with a drop down wooden grid/floor and pull out toilet. I’d hate to need to use the loo and it was soaking wet. Similarly I don’t understand why a lot of builds but the toilet right next to the bed.
There’s also some of the driving aspects we’d like to improve, such as adding cruise control, sound deadening the cab, and I think the fridge from the disco centre console can also be installed between the front seats.
It has self leveling hydraulic legs which are staying. I’ve been on top of the van when my mate is walking around inside and it’s not fun.
Not sure if this is standard on lgv’s but there are led floods fitted under the wing mirrors facing backwards. When you put the switch for them on they’ll come on automatically when reversing along with an additional 2 on the rear and the reversing camera. Makes moving it round on your own a doddle. I’m also thinking of adding a camera and electronic valve for dumping the black water.
Also someone on a WhatsApp chat I’m on saw it and messaged me that he works for the local MB commercial entity, so is going to get me the full workshop manual, parts lists etc. currently familiarising ourselves with the air suspension and why it’s not releasing, so that will be a godsend.
It has self leveling hydraulic legs which are staying. I’ve been on top of the van when my mate is walking around inside and it’s not fun.
Not sure if this is standard on lgv’s but there are led floods fitted under the wing mirrors facing backwards. When you put the switch for them on they’ll come on automatically when reversing along with an additional 2 on the rear and the reversing camera. Makes moving it round on your own a doddle. I’m also thinking of adding a camera and electronic valve for dumping the black water.
Also someone on a WhatsApp chat I’m on saw it and messaged me that he works for the local MB commercial entity, so is going to get me the full workshop manual, parts lists etc. currently familiarising ourselves with the air suspension and why it’s not releasing, so that will be a godsend.
There's some great suggestions/posts up there /\
Don't scrimp on electric, solar/generator/batteries, more is better IMO. Having an extra bed can be really useful. Some small details are worthwhile, like mossie proof nets over doors & windows plus blackout blinds. I'd include a built in water purifier as well.
A lot of the suggestions will be dependent on the planned regions/countries you intend to travel.
Good luck with the build and please keep the thread updated.
Don't scrimp on electric, solar/generator/batteries, more is better IMO. Having an extra bed can be really useful. Some small details are worthwhile, like mossie proof nets over doors & windows plus blackout blinds. I'd include a built in water purifier as well.
A lot of the suggestions will be dependent on the planned regions/countries you intend to travel.
Good luck with the build and please keep the thread updated.
Yep it’s all good stuff and appreciated.
The electrical installation will be (chef’s kiss) nice. And everything on the will be TUV approved. We’ll use it for a trip or 2 to get some promo material from it and troubleshoot the build, but the intention is to sell it and build more.
Hopefully that can be a sale to someone who collects it from and goes on an adventure, or we’ll ship it to EU for sale there, hence the type approval aims.
The electrical installation will be (chef’s kiss) nice. And everything on the will be TUV approved. We’ll use it for a trip or 2 to get some promo material from it and troubleshoot the build, but the intention is to sell it and build more.
Hopefully that can be a sale to someone who collects it from and goes on an adventure, or we’ll ship it to EU for sale there, hence the type approval aims.
I thought of another little gripe, which I know about from experience. Unless you have a very trick levelling system, you will not be 100% level when you park up. Try and set up your drains so that everything drains in the same corner (e.g. front right), and set up your bed so that angle is good for sleeping, for me I have to have my head slightly higher than my feet, not the other way.
It'll help massively knowing that while you can't get the van 100% level, you'll be happy with one particular corner higher than the rest.
It'll help massively knowing that while you can't get the van 100% level, you'll be happy with one particular corner higher than the rest.
shirt said:
Yes we will fit rear flares to allow a full size double mattress. Shower tray will be full size with a drop down wooden grid/floor and pull out toilet. I’d hate to need to use the loo and it was soaking wet. Similarly I don’t understand why a lot of builds but the toilet right next to the bed.
Rear flares for a transverse bed? I have a transverse bed, one clambering over the other to get out of bed gets old quickly! I miss my old longitudinal bed in my old van. I have a Thetford loo in my shower, I use a shower curtain to limit how wet it gets, that also means I can hang towels over that space.Not many at the moment, I’ll take some next time I’m there.
The leveling is very swish yes, you just press a button and it does the rest by itself. Every bit of kit installed on it (most since removed) was/is high end. Even the dvd recorder was by Loewe.
Yea the bed will be transverse. Longitudinal would mean it takes up too much space or would be pull out, which we don’t want. I can lay across the width without touching either side (I’m 6’1) but flares will be needed to ensure we have 50mm insulation.
I realise you can’t please everyone which is why we are canvassing opinion and then deciding who our target customer is. The ones we saw at the show were trying to please everyone and so compromising the result.
The leveling is very swish yes, you just press a button and it does the rest by itself. Every bit of kit installed on it (most since removed) was/is high end. Even the dvd recorder was by Loewe.
Yea the bed will be transverse. Longitudinal would mean it takes up too much space or would be pull out, which we don’t want. I can lay across the width without touching either side (I’m 6’1) but flares will be needed to ensure we have 50mm insulation.
I realise you can’t please everyone which is why we are canvassing opinion and then deciding who our target customer is. The ones we saw at the show were trying to please everyone and so compromising the result.
Only just seeing this - super interesting project and also pleased my thread from a few years back has been of some use.
From my perspective, these are my priorities on top of some of the others mentioned above:
- Big bank of power. I agree it's good to run most things off DC where possible but some things are AC with no workaround so a min. 2kW Pure Sine Wave inverter is key for me. I do agree that a good DC - DC charger is also more relevant for regular touring (I have this on my current van) but a good solar array and decent LifePo4 batteries is also useful for staying put for a few days which I'm sure this kind of vehicle would do;
- Lots of fresh water - min 250l but if you have the payload (which you have) up to 500l. But, fully insulated. The stories from Norway (above) are reminiscent of my -26C in St Anton and it's imperative that this is inboard (between a double floor, ideally);
- A decent on board water filter. Very often offgridding, you may not be 100% confident in the water you're uplifting. I found the peace of mind of having a very high quality water filter on board was worth its weight in gold;
- Anyone who has spent time properly off grid will know that black waste is the usual limiting factor. On something like this, I would suggest a macerator and black tank. In every vehicle I've owned, I've had multiple toilet cassettes to eek out as long as possible offgrid, but there comes a limit on how many you want/can store in the garage;
- Nespresso machine - just because. Don't underestimate the powerful comfort to be had from some proper home comforts when you're off the beaten track. Same goes for Silvy magnetic crockery/glass products. Being able to sip a nice wine from a crystal glass is much better than some acrylic thing which gets scuffed in a cupboard;
- Bulkhead or not - personally, I see the security risk of not being able to escape a park-up quickly as far higher than the burglary factor. There are lots of security devices for cab doors (including deadlocks) and with the rest of the vehicle high off the ground, you're minimising someone easily breaking in to the hab area. Whenever I park up wild, I always turn around the drivers seat and have the keys handy so that I can make a quick escape if needed. So far never needed, but it should always be a consideration IMO;
- Alde wet central heating - given the choice, I would never have blown air. The latest Truma 6D+E I have in the Knaus is good and can be nice and subtle at times, but if you're properly off grid and wanting a home from home system, there's nothing to beat the Alde system. It also helps you can plumb it into the engine coolant circuit for either warming the hab side on the move or reversing to pre-warming the engine in conditions described above when it's majorly sub-zero.
Good luck with it and can't wait to see the before, during and after pics!
From my perspective, these are my priorities on top of some of the others mentioned above:
- Big bank of power. I agree it's good to run most things off DC where possible but some things are AC with no workaround so a min. 2kW Pure Sine Wave inverter is key for me. I do agree that a good DC - DC charger is also more relevant for regular touring (I have this on my current van) but a good solar array and decent LifePo4 batteries is also useful for staying put for a few days which I'm sure this kind of vehicle would do;
- Lots of fresh water - min 250l but if you have the payload (which you have) up to 500l. But, fully insulated. The stories from Norway (above) are reminiscent of my -26C in St Anton and it's imperative that this is inboard (between a double floor, ideally);
- A decent on board water filter. Very often offgridding, you may not be 100% confident in the water you're uplifting. I found the peace of mind of having a very high quality water filter on board was worth its weight in gold;
- Anyone who has spent time properly off grid will know that black waste is the usual limiting factor. On something like this, I would suggest a macerator and black tank. In every vehicle I've owned, I've had multiple toilet cassettes to eek out as long as possible offgrid, but there comes a limit on how many you want/can store in the garage;
- Nespresso machine - just because. Don't underestimate the powerful comfort to be had from some proper home comforts when you're off the beaten track. Same goes for Silvy magnetic crockery/glass products. Being able to sip a nice wine from a crystal glass is much better than some acrylic thing which gets scuffed in a cupboard;
- Bulkhead or not - personally, I see the security risk of not being able to escape a park-up quickly as far higher than the burglary factor. There are lots of security devices for cab doors (including deadlocks) and with the rest of the vehicle high off the ground, you're minimising someone easily breaking in to the hab area. Whenever I park up wild, I always turn around the drivers seat and have the keys handy so that I can make a quick escape if needed. So far never needed, but it should always be a consideration IMO;
- Alde wet central heating - given the choice, I would never have blown air. The latest Truma 6D+E I have in the Knaus is good and can be nice and subtle at times, but if you're properly off grid and wanting a home from home system, there's nothing to beat the Alde system. It also helps you can plumb it into the engine coolant circuit for either warming the hab side on the move or reversing to pre-warming the engine in conditions described above when it's majorly sub-zero.
Good luck with it and can't wait to see the before, during and after pics!
Edited by Spuffington on Wednesday 25th September 09:53
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