Towing weights - confused newbie here! :)
Discussion
Hi All
Thanks for the input on my last newbie thread. I've now sucessfully weaned MrsPBF away from ideas of Motorhomes at the budgets we were looking at and have managed to get her excited at the thought of a caravan - it looks like we can get old but fairly tidy examples for around £1K and that makes it much more likely to happen in the fairly near future for us.
And assuming we like it, then I can persuade her to upgrade when we've got a few more pennies. (probably when miniPBF finishes nursery and so the eye watering monthly payments also stop!
)
Anyway, been looking into what I could tow with my elderly but sound Merc (S reg , 1998 W202 C200 Auto.)
So... correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is that I should aim for a caravan that's about 85% of the car's kerbside weight. That caravan weight being made up of MiRO + Payload (not to exceed MTPLW). Books say to assume a caravan payload of 100kg for two people + 25kg per person thereafter. (Does that figure include things like microwave for example? Should I be weighing all the bits & bobs as a one off exercise?)
But then I come to the kerbside weight of the car and I'm finding all sorts of figures that I'd like guidance on (I don't have an Owner's manual).
The 'Revenue Weight' on the V5 is 1845kg - I assume this is the max laden weight of the car rather than the nominal kerbside weight?
A few forums seem to suggest the kerbside weight of the C200 is about 1365kg, but http://www.eurodb.com.au/used-car-Specification/ME... says that max towing (braked) is 1575kg. (i.e, way over the 85% kerbside rule of thumb)
I presume I should go for 1365 x 0.85? Would I be right in thinking that max towing quoted is simply the 85% figure of a car loaded to the gunwhales & running at max weight of 1845kg?
This plaque is on the car but can anyone confirm/decipher the meanings for me? I presume the first two are the max laden weight and the max weight of car + trailer combo? But what are the other two? Axle weights?
Apologies for the daft nebie questions but I like to get stuff like this right in my head. Wibble.
(...and why the hell don't most adverts for caravans show the weight?)
Thanks for the input on my last newbie thread. I've now sucessfully weaned MrsPBF away from ideas of Motorhomes at the budgets we were looking at and have managed to get her excited at the thought of a caravan - it looks like we can get old but fairly tidy examples for around £1K and that makes it much more likely to happen in the fairly near future for us.
And assuming we like it, then I can persuade her to upgrade when we've got a few more pennies. (probably when miniPBF finishes nursery and so the eye watering monthly payments also stop!
)Anyway, been looking into what I could tow with my elderly but sound Merc (S reg , 1998 W202 C200 Auto.)
So... correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is that I should aim for a caravan that's about 85% of the car's kerbside weight. That caravan weight being made up of MiRO + Payload (not to exceed MTPLW). Books say to assume a caravan payload of 100kg for two people + 25kg per person thereafter. (Does that figure include things like microwave for example? Should I be weighing all the bits & bobs as a one off exercise?)
But then I come to the kerbside weight of the car and I'm finding all sorts of figures that I'd like guidance on (I don't have an Owner's manual).
The 'Revenue Weight' on the V5 is 1845kg - I assume this is the max laden weight of the car rather than the nominal kerbside weight?
A few forums seem to suggest the kerbside weight of the C200 is about 1365kg, but http://www.eurodb.com.au/used-car-Specification/ME... says that max towing (braked) is 1575kg. (i.e, way over the 85% kerbside rule of thumb)
I presume I should go for 1365 x 0.85? Would I be right in thinking that max towing quoted is simply the 85% figure of a car loaded to the gunwhales & running at max weight of 1845kg?
This plaque is on the car but can anyone confirm/decipher the meanings for me? I presume the first two are the max laden weight and the max weight of car + trailer combo? But what are the other two? Axle weights?
Apologies for the daft nebie questions but I like to get stuff like this right in my head. Wibble.
(...and why the hell don't most adverts for caravans show the weight?)
Pot Bellied Fool said:
(...and why the hell don't most adverts for caravans show the weight?)
Because most owners don't have a clue about how much it weighs. They'll probably know how much it should have weighed when the bought it but that was before the addition of microwave, telly, cuddly toy etc etc. A trip to the weigh bridge is the only way forward...GlenMH said:
Because most owners don't have a clue about how much it weighs. They'll probably know how much it should have weighed when the bought it but that was before the addition of microwave, telly, cuddly toy etc etc. A trip to the weigh bridge is the only way forward...
Trying to find out before I buy though - I'd hate to see something that looked in great condition & buy/bid only to find that the car wasn't heavy enough! MrsPBF would be having words... (again!)But the more I read, the more I'm learning so it'll get there! Don't think much will happen over the closed season although I'm guessing it'd be cheaper to buy something in the Winter months rather than when Spring & demand perks up.
If you want to stick to the 85% recommendation I reckon you should be towing upto 85% of 1365, thats about 1160kg..
So you want to be towing a van at no more than that when fully loaded - awning, gas bottles, food, clothes etc.
It doesn't matter if you bought a van that had a MTPLM of higher than that though, provided you don't go over the 1160.
I reckon if you found a van at 1000 unladen you'd be sorted, 160kg is quite a lot of weight for the payload.
This is quite apart from all the licence category stuff that the link above provides..
So you want to be towing a van at no more than that when fully loaded - awning, gas bottles, food, clothes etc.
It doesn't matter if you bought a van that had a MTPLM of higher than that though, provided you don't go over the 1160.
I reckon if you found a van at 1000 unladen you'd be sorted, 160kg is quite a lot of weight for the payload.
This is quite apart from all the licence category stuff that the link above provides..
Pot Bellied Fool said:
GlenMH said:
Because most owners don't have a clue about how much it weighs. They'll probably know how much it should have weighed when the bought it but that was before the addition of microwave, telly, cuddly toy etc etc. A trip to the weigh bridge is the only way forward...
Trying to find out before I buy though - I'd hate to see something that looked in great condition & buy/bid only to find that the car wasn't heavy enough! MrsPBF would be having words... (again!)But the more I read, the more I'm learning so it'll get there! Don't think much will happen over the closed season although I'm guessing it'd be cheaper to buy something in the Winter months rather than when Spring & demand perks up.
I don't know if it is of any use to you.
Cheers all.
Mate of mine told me about the whattowcar site, doesn't have my car listed but it's editable so quite interesting to fiddle with the figures.
I also found http://www.caravantalk.co.uk/caravan-specification... which has a lot of van weghts on it.
Quite surprising that some caravans are well within limits & others that appear the same size are way over! Just shows the difference in chassis construction I guess.
And I'm an old fart Crafty, so B+E Grandfather rights at least help with the paperwork. I do intend doing a quick maneouvering course though, just to get the rough hang of it before I have the Passenger Seat Driving Expert installed & chewing my ear when I'm trying to concentrate
Mate of mine told me about the whattowcar site, doesn't have my car listed but it's editable so quite interesting to fiddle with the figures.
I also found http://www.caravantalk.co.uk/caravan-specification... which has a lot of van weghts on it.
Quite surprising that some caravans are well within limits & others that appear the same size are way over! Just shows the difference in chassis construction I guess.
And I'm an old fart Crafty, so B+E Grandfather rights at least help with the paperwork. I do intend doing a quick maneouvering course though, just to get the rough hang of it before I have the Passenger Seat Driving Expert installed & chewing my ear when I'm trying to concentrate
First is max gross weight (Fully laden car)
Second is max train weight (fully laden car + fully laden trailer)
Third is front axle load
Fourth is rear axle load.
Axle loads added up are greater than max weight to allow for uneven loading.
Towing capacity is MTW-MGW, so 3345-1845=1500kg.
The 85% kerb weight rule is made up by the caravan club due to crap drivers using crap cars to tow badly loaded caravans, and coming a cropper.
As long as you are sensible, the 'van is loaded with a sensible nose weight, the car is in good nick (tyre pressures, brakes etc) Then towing a trailer up to the cars rated weight is not a problem. JUst look at all the people that use a 1900kg defender to tow a 3500kg trailer quite happily!
Practise is the key with manoeuvring, and never rush!
Second is max train weight (fully laden car + fully laden trailer)
Third is front axle load
Fourth is rear axle load.
Axle loads added up are greater than max weight to allow for uneven loading.
Towing capacity is MTW-MGW, so 3345-1845=1500kg.
The 85% kerb weight rule is made up by the caravan club due to crap drivers using crap cars to tow badly loaded caravans, and coming a cropper.
As long as you are sensible, the 'van is loaded with a sensible nose weight, the car is in good nick (tyre pressures, brakes etc) Then towing a trailer up to the cars rated weight is not a problem. JUst look at all the people that use a 1900kg defender to tow a 3500kg trailer quite happily!
Practise is the key with manoeuvring, and never rush!
Thanks Mike, really useful. I thought that was what the plate figures represented but you've explained it to a T.
http://youtu.be/lAfZ1N56qjY
At which point do you look at the billowing smoke & think "it'll be ok, just another mile to go?"!!
abbotsmike said:
The 85% kerb weight rule is made up by the caravan club due to crap drivers using crap cars to tow badly loaded caravans, and coming a cropper.
So that's an excuse to post this then http://youtu.be/lAfZ1N56qjY
At which point do you look at the billowing smoke & think "it'll be ok, just another mile to go?"!!
As above, as long as you are sensible you will be ok with a little more than 85% but remember that a trailer has much smaller area than a caravan so will be affected by the wind a huge amount more.
Caravan club website also has some great information.
Something like this would be ideal
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Swift-Silhouette-3-Diamo...
If you can check for damp inside and cracks on the bodywork. If the floor bounces then its buggered so walk away.
Check all the electrics work as well as the heater, water pump, gas hob etc..
If you look nearer Christmas prices will have fallen, make sure you get it before start of the season next year where prices firm up again.
May be an idea to get it serviced after buying just for piece of mind with the gas and electrical system. I paid £160 a few weeks ago for a full service. That was a mobile guy.
Caravan club website also has some great information.
Something like this would be ideal
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Swift-Silhouette-3-Diamo...
If you can check for damp inside and cracks on the bodywork. If the floor bounces then its buggered so walk away.
Check all the electrics work as well as the heater, water pump, gas hob etc..
If you look nearer Christmas prices will have fallen, make sure you get it before start of the season next year where prices firm up again.
May be an idea to get it serviced after buying just for piece of mind with the gas and electrical system. I paid £160 a few weeks ago for a full service. That was a mobile guy.
GreatGranny said:
May be an idea to get it serviced after buying just for piece of mind with the gas and electrical system. I paid £160 a few weeks ago for a full service. That was a mobile guy.
Cheers Granny, good advice. Damp is one thing that concerns me a little, how many people on discovering damp just decide to punt the caravan on to a newbie like me on eBay? I'm fine buying cars but they're not made out of MDF! Was that service just for electrics & gas or do they check suspension/bearings etc?
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