Really getting the itch for a T25.
Discussion
I've flip flopped on & off for a few years on one of these & I'm really starting to look hard for one. Summers coming to an end, it strikes me as a good time to pick one up & I'll have a decent winter project to get my teeth into with the added bonus of being able to work inside some of the time!
I'm comfortable up to & including swapping engines, gearboxes etc. so no real qualms with anything mechanical. I'm keen to avoid anything with major rust, although I suppose I have to expect a degree of rot & repair given the age of these.
The questions I'm leading up to are what should I expect in terms of insurance - is limited miles the way to go, are there many specialist insurers out there? What should I be thinking of in terms of security?
Can one be heated easily? In my line of work, we use Eberspacher heaters - can you get these or similar for vans?
Air or water cooled? I guess without sticking a Subaru or a Porsche flat six performance is a bit weedy, but is one better than the other?
How about mpg - what's realistic? Any other pitfalls to avoid?
Thanks peeps.
I'm comfortable up to & including swapping engines, gearboxes etc. so no real qualms with anything mechanical. I'm keen to avoid anything with major rust, although I suppose I have to expect a degree of rot & repair given the age of these.
The questions I'm leading up to are what should I expect in terms of insurance - is limited miles the way to go, are there many specialist insurers out there? What should I be thinking of in terms of security?
Can one be heated easily? In my line of work, we use Eberspacher heaters - can you get these or similar for vans?
Air or water cooled? I guess without sticking a Subaru or a Porsche flat six performance is a bit weedy, but is one better than the other?
How about mpg - what's realistic? Any other pitfalls to avoid?
Thanks peeps.
I can answer q few questions....
I own a 1982 air cooled 2.0litre Camper which i have owned for about four months.
It does about 20 mpg and it is slow, although i am led to believe it is not one of the slowest variants. I chose an aircooled because its bodywork was good not becuase it was aircooled! Tbh the slow pace is something to enjoy and relish rather than curse. It really is a relaxed experience which i would imagine a subaru conversion would spoil. It is not design as a time attack vehicle!
My heater matrix and controls all need replacing, but this will be a over winter job. Only used on summer weekends so far, so heating (or lack of) is not a problem......
I have used just kampers to insure mine on a limited mileage policy. I found it difficult to get the exact spec right on compare the supermarket.com.... And therefore couldn't be arsed......
HTH
Mike
I own a 1982 air cooled 2.0litre Camper which i have owned for about four months.
It does about 20 mpg and it is slow, although i am led to believe it is not one of the slowest variants. I chose an aircooled because its bodywork was good not becuase it was aircooled! Tbh the slow pace is something to enjoy and relish rather than curse. It really is a relaxed experience which i would imagine a subaru conversion would spoil. It is not design as a time attack vehicle!
My heater matrix and controls all need replacing, but this will be a over winter job. Only used on summer weekends so far, so heating (or lack of) is not a problem......
I have used just kampers to insure mine on a limited mileage policy. I found it difficult to get the exact spec right on compare the supermarket.com.... And therefore couldn't be arsed......
HTH
Mike
Currently sitting in our T2, glass of wine in hand, after a long and slow drive from London to Wymouth, pondering whether to bite the bullet and upgrade to a 2.0 o/c T25. They're getting quite pricey now but for the cash I'd get for our average to good T2, we'd get an absolutely mint T25.
Not quite as 'cool' but faster, bigger and better built.
And now to answer your questions;
They do rot
A 2.0 o/c petrol will keep up with modern traffic
We've got an eberspacher in ours
Ins is about £280 per year
We charge friends £100 per w/e to borrow ours which we donate to the RBL. If we trousered it, we'd more than cover our running costs for the year.
Not quite as 'cool' but faster, bigger and better built.
And now to answer your questions;
They do rot
A 2.0 o/c petrol will keep up with modern traffic
We've got an eberspacher in ours
Ins is about £280 per year
We charge friends £100 per w/e to borrow ours which we donate to the RBL. If we trousered it, we'd more than cover our running costs for the year.
Edited by ClaphamGT3 on Tuesday 7th August 22:08
Thanks for this. Where I'm coming from is I have a 5 year old daughter & I love doing things up. She's got an MoT, so doesn't need spannering so in lieu of that, I'd like a project to do over the winter.
I think the key priority is a rot free van with strong paint. Mechanically sound would be good but not essential & the interior I would be happy to strip & replace. Tall order maybe, but the hunt is on.
I think the key priority is a rot free van with strong paint. Mechanically sound would be good but not essential & the interior I would be happy to strip & replace. Tall order maybe, but the hunt is on.
It certainly out-cools any of our other cars!
Prices are massively seasonal and the bodgery on some of these things has to be seen to be believed. I looked at literally dozens of 'restored' T2s that were sheds with a new interior and a quick blow-over with 2-pack. I was about to gat on a plane to South Africa to get one when a very scruffy but honest one came up on e-bay. Mechanically strong and ok-ish structurally, I had the interior and bodywork to my standards. £5k to buy and £8k to do up and I know I'll still turn a profit if I sell in April - June.
T25s are beginning to go the same way, so look long and look carefully!
Prices are massively seasonal and the bodgery on some of these things has to be seen to be believed. I looked at literally dozens of 'restored' T2s that were sheds with a new interior and a quick blow-over with 2-pack. I was about to gat on a plane to South Africa to get one when a very scruffy but honest one came up on e-bay. Mechanically strong and ok-ish structurally, I had the interior and bodywork to my standards. £5k to buy and £8k to do up and I know I'll still turn a profit if I sell in April - June.
T25s are beginning to go the same way, so look long and look carefully!
Edited by ClaphamGT3 on Tuesday 7th August 22:44
Don't worry too much about tatty paintwork. Just check what is underneath is sound. There are guides to roller painting a van with rustoleam (check club 80-90) with some really good results. Probably only costs in region of 100 quid for materials and can be done DIY. Ours is roller painted and looks pretty good - although i may redo it at some point.
Our three year old daughter loves the camper van (probably linked to Peppa Pig having one too). She loves sleeping in the hightop and doesn't get disturbed even with us downstairs watching telly, chatting and boozing.
Our van cost £178 to insure this year limited to 3000 miles.
Mike
Our three year old daughter loves the camper van (probably linked to Peppa Pig having one too). She loves sleeping in the hightop and doesn't get disturbed even with us downstairs watching telly, chatting and boozing.
Our van cost £178 to insure this year limited to 3000 miles.
Mike
Justin Cyder said:
The questions I'm leading up to are what should I expect in terms of insurance - is limited miles the way to go, are there many specialist insurers out there? What should I be thinking of in terms of security?
..
Air or water cooled? I guess without sticking a Subaru or a Porsche flat six performance is a bit weedy, but is one better than the other?
How about mpg - what's realistic? Any other pitfalls to avoid?
I've got a 1987 T25, water cooled 1.9 petrol, syncro transmission, that I've had for five or six years now. Used to be a minibus so has glass all round and twin sliding doors, I have taken the rows of passenger seats out and use it for towing and moving big stuff (but have just bought a different tow vehicle so plan on selling it, perhaps early next year). Mine's not a camper, just a van but with windows, I had thought about converting it but I don't have time for the projects I am already involved in so have abandoned that idea...
Air or water cooled? I guess without sticking a Subaru or a Porsche flat six performance is a bit weedy, but is one better than the other?
How about mpg - what's realistic? Any other pitfalls to avoid?
So, it costs me £160 to insure on limited mileage (1500) via Footman James, I was paying about £230 on "normal" insurance until I bought the new car and moved the no claims onto that. I don't secure it, beyond locking the doors, ultimately it is a 25 year old commercial vehicle.
MPG is 23 on a run, low teens on short journeys / around town. Performance is 'sluggish'. Top speed is often constrained by wind direction and gradient, not the legal limit. A few weeks back it was happily cruising at 75mph on part throttle travelling to London, on the way back to Bristol it wouldn't reach 70 on full throttle a lot of the time, because the wind was against me. The 2.1 petrol is fuel injected and quicker. I am told if the head gaskets go it is often impossible to remove the heads due to the studs corroding into the head, so at that point it is recon engine time - this happened to a friend of mine.
Rust in the floor in front of both rear wheel arches is common (mine has been welded on both sides in recent years), the garage I use tell me that is common on them there but otherwise they apparently aren't too bad on rot.
Echo what everyone else has said, plus...
I briefly owned a T25 water cooled. If you look around the net for info on the 'wasserboxer' engine you will start to worry. The air cooled, although still inefficient and puny, is generally more robust (relatively speaking...) and a proven design, and the one I would pick if I bought another. You have to remember the VW flat four was designed in the '30s to cope with 30ish bhp in a light car. By 1984 it was a long way out of date and way over-stretched. The engine conversions I do like the look of are to the IL4 Golf GTI petrol or diesel engines - a modern engine in a sensible configuration with some parts commonality.
The carbs are problematic - Pierburg with autochoke - and you would be best advised to replace with a Weber as soon as it starts playing up.
I struggled to find a mechanic to touch mine. They universally rolled their eyes at the water boxer engine and vouched for the problems they have. Mine had an inexplicable engine knock which no-one could diagnose. Eventually I just took a bath on it and sold it - I had no workshop to fix it myself at the time. Check out this article for more info on the problems:
http://www.sub5zero.com/great-moments-crappy-engin...
I would consider an early air cooled T25 but nothing later. The T4 is far better, but dear. We ended up with a Mazda Bongo, which is a far better machine than the T25 and hasn't missed a beat. Having owned several I think the dream of old VW's tends to be a lot better than the reality...
eta http://club80-90.co.uk/ will find you plenty of people with T25 experience.
I briefly owned a T25 water cooled. If you look around the net for info on the 'wasserboxer' engine you will start to worry. The air cooled, although still inefficient and puny, is generally more robust (relatively speaking...) and a proven design, and the one I would pick if I bought another. You have to remember the VW flat four was designed in the '30s to cope with 30ish bhp in a light car. By 1984 it was a long way out of date and way over-stretched. The engine conversions I do like the look of are to the IL4 Golf GTI petrol or diesel engines - a modern engine in a sensible configuration with some parts commonality.
The carbs are problematic - Pierburg with autochoke - and you would be best advised to replace with a Weber as soon as it starts playing up.
I struggled to find a mechanic to touch mine. They universally rolled their eyes at the water boxer engine and vouched for the problems they have. Mine had an inexplicable engine knock which no-one could diagnose. Eventually I just took a bath on it and sold it - I had no workshop to fix it myself at the time. Check out this article for more info on the problems:
http://www.sub5zero.com/great-moments-crappy-engin...
I would consider an early air cooled T25 but nothing later. The T4 is far better, but dear. We ended up with a Mazda Bongo, which is a far better machine than the T25 and hasn't missed a beat. Having owned several I think the dream of old VW's tends to be a lot better than the reality...
eta http://club80-90.co.uk/ will find you plenty of people with T25 experience.
Edited by N Dentressangle on Thursday 9th August 11:52
N Dentressangle said:
eta http://club80-90.co.uk/ will find you plenty of people with T25 experience.
Or if you under the age of 60 try www.brick-yard.co.ukEdited by N Dentressangle on Thursday 9th August 11:52
Club legbag is ok, just a bit stuffy for my liking.
Gusbang said:
Or if you under the age of 60 try www.brick-yard.co.uk
Club legbag is ok, just a bit stuffy for my liking.
Thanks - that's the one I was trying to think of. Knew there was another decent site!Club legbag is ok, just a bit stuffy for my liking.
You need Subaru power if you don't like fiddling with carburometters, or whatever they are. 
Just got back from France, Switzerland and Italy in mine last night. (Will update my other thread soon.)
Awesome trip and the van never missed a beat. Oh, and it's now for sale, due to the surprise sale of my 964 Turbo. I need the funds back out of the camper for my next toy.
Would have loved to make it a keeper but it's a case of priorities and we only ever bought the T25 for this trip really. £6000 ono.
Just got back from France, Switzerland and Italy in mine last night. (Will update my other thread soon.)
Awesome trip and the van never missed a beat. Oh, and it's now for sale, due to the surprise sale of my 964 Turbo. I need the funds back out of the camper for my next toy.
Would have loved to make it a keeper but it's a case of priorities and we only ever bought the T25 for this trip really. £6000 ono.
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