Good car for towing a caravan?
Discussion
My parents have a normal sized sort of caravan and my dad has been looking at changing his car for towing.
Currently he has a Saab 9000 2.3T, so pretty torquey with the turbo, has been fine for smaller caravans/trailers in the past. Also an e36 323 which he hasn't tried towing it with yet.
He is looking at diesel Audi All-roads and Volvo cross country V70s.
So, I suppose the question is: FWD/RWD/AWD, and large petrol engine normally aspirated, smaller petrol turbo, or diesel turbo?
My gut feeling is to avoid diesels - he doesn't do a huge mileage and I worry about DPF failures, etc. Also, although torquey isn't all the torque within a limited rev range meaning they need a lot of stirring? Given the low mileage I reckon a 6-pot petrol might do the job, maybe an e39 528 manual touring... But would AWD be a better way to go?
Anyway, I throw the floor open to the experts
Currently he has a Saab 9000 2.3T, so pretty torquey with the turbo, has been fine for smaller caravans/trailers in the past. Also an e36 323 which he hasn't tried towing it with yet.
He is looking at diesel Audi All-roads and Volvo cross country V70s.
So, I suppose the question is: FWD/RWD/AWD, and large petrol engine normally aspirated, smaller petrol turbo, or diesel turbo?
My gut feeling is to avoid diesels - he doesn't do a huge mileage and I worry about DPF failures, etc. Also, although torquey isn't all the torque within a limited rev range meaning they need a lot of stirring? Given the low mileage I reckon a 6-pot petrol might do the job, maybe an e39 528 manual touring... But would AWD be a better way to go?
Anyway, I throw the floor open to the experts
Diesels are some of the best tow vehicles but not little 4-pot ones. Get a V6 or something where it's not straining all the time.
Given the fact that "towing" usually means driving off asphalt, I would always choose a 4WD car. That said, my Dad only had FWD and RWD but towed our caravans all over the UK in all weathers.
Caravans are bigger these days although better materials mean lighter per given-size. I'd still go 4WD.
We have a Merc ML320CDI which would tow a house, and my 3-litre Legacy which surprises people when I rescue their massively bigger cars in the snow. Mine's a thirsty bugger though - 20mpg when I'm not towing. It'll pull 1800Kg (gross trailer weight) according to the specifications. The ML would literally tow a house - I can't remember what it's rated for but the towbar shames some bridges.
Given the fact that "towing" usually means driving off asphalt, I would always choose a 4WD car. That said, my Dad only had FWD and RWD but towed our caravans all over the UK in all weathers.
Caravans are bigger these days although better materials mean lighter per given-size. I'd still go 4WD.
We have a Merc ML320CDI which would tow a house, and my 3-litre Legacy which surprises people when I rescue their massively bigger cars in the snow. Mine's a thirsty bugger though - 20mpg when I'm not towing. It'll pull 1800Kg (gross trailer weight) according to the specifications. The ML would literally tow a house - I can't remember what it's rated for but the towbar shames some bridges.
I'd avoid the allroad diesel - they dont have the best reputation. I know someone who has just had an eye watering bill on theirs.
Tow car wise it depends on what you want to tow, its all about the weight of the vehiicle, although larger engines do normally weigh more which is a happy coincidence...
Tow car wise it depends on what you want to tow, its all about the weight of the vehiicle, although larger engines do normally weigh more which is a happy coincidence...
The Auto Express tow-car of the year (under £25,000) goes to VW Jetta 2.0-litre TDI-->
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-reviews/40217/tow...
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-reviews/40217/tow...
Laurel Green said:
The Auto Express tow-car of the year (under £25,000) goes to VW Jetta 2.0-litre TDI
Which is a VW Golf 2.0 litre TDI with an overhang, so the Golf would be a much better tow car, as it's identical, but with almost no overhang compared to a Jetta.Beats me why they pick these cars? unless the title is 'Best small saloon with an undesirable overhang from a towing point of view, the hatch version will be much better of course, that's a given'.
I find this odd. OK, I have never towed and have never driven a modern turbo diesel, but in a relatively small car won't there be a bit more "tail wagging the dog"? Plus a relatively small TDI will need working pretty hard surely - and will require a lot of gear changing in order to keep the turbo on song...
Only towed with two cars, my previous car, a petrol Octavia vRS manual and my current, a 535d auto. The Octavia was ok, but never felt that stable with a 1300kg van. The same van on the E60 is so much better. Much more stable due to the extra weight of the tow car, and with a lot more traction available on soft ground due to the weight of the van being over the rear wheels. I prefer the auto for towing but use the manual mode so it can be asked to cruise in a more efficient gear.
Generally speaking the stuff that makes a good tow car is as follows:
Sufficient mass - it is generally recommended that the max laidenweight of the van is no more than 85% of the cars kerb weight, however in terms of legality, the max permissible weight may be more - see the V5 doc.
Drive: in order of preference, 4wd, RWD, FWD.
Plenty of torque - diesels are liked
Auto generally preferred over manual
Short rear overhangs minimise pendulum effect
Firm suspension or auto ride height is best
Sufficient capacity in the car for a decent noseweight of the van. This is laid down my the car manufacture, the higher the better - minimum of 75kg really
Long wheelbase improves stability
Hope that helps!
Generally speaking the stuff that makes a good tow car is as follows:
Sufficient mass - it is generally recommended that the max laidenweight of the van is no more than 85% of the cars kerb weight, however in terms of legality, the max permissible weight may be more - see the V5 doc.
Drive: in order of preference, 4wd, RWD, FWD.
Plenty of torque - diesels are liked
Auto generally preferred over manual
Short rear overhangs minimise pendulum effect
Firm suspension or auto ride height is best
Sufficient capacity in the car for a decent noseweight of the van. This is laid down my the car manufacture, the higher the better - minimum of 75kg really
Long wheelbase improves stability
Hope that helps!
NiceCupOfTea said:
I find this odd. OK, I have never towed and have never driven a modern turbo diesel, but in a relatively small car won't there be a bit more "tail wagging the dog"? Plus a relatively small TDI will need working pretty hard surely - and will require a lot of gear changing in order to keep the turbo on song...
I suspect value for money plays a big part in these things. It certainly wouldn't be my idea of a towcar.rix said:
Only towed with two cars, my previous car, a petrol Octavia vRS manual and my current, a 535d auto. The Octavia was ok, but never felt that stable with a 1300kg van. The same van on the E60 is so much better. Much more stable due to the extra weight of the tow car, and with a lot more traction available on soft ground due to the weight of the van being over the rear wheels. I prefer the auto for towing but use the manual mode so it can be asked to cruise in a more efficient gear.
Generally speaking the stuff that makes a good tow car is as follows:
Sufficient mass - it is generally recommended that the max laidenweight of the van is no more than 85% of the cars kerb weight, however in terms of legality, the max permissible weight may be more - see the V5 doc.
Drive: in order of preference, 4wd, RWD, FWD.
Plenty of torque - diesels are liked
Auto generally preferred over manual
Short rear overhangs minimise pendulum effect
Firm suspension or auto ride height is best
Sufficient capacity in the car for a decent noseweight of the van. This is laid down my the car manufacture, the higher the better - minimum of 75kg really
Long wheelbase improves stability
Hope that helps!
^^^ Perfect. That is a great blueprint for a towcar. Cannot fault any of that.Generally speaking the stuff that makes a good tow car is as follows:
Sufficient mass - it is generally recommended that the max laidenweight of the van is no more than 85% of the cars kerb weight, however in terms of legality, the max permissible weight may be more - see the V5 doc.
Drive: in order of preference, 4wd, RWD, FWD.
Plenty of torque - diesels are liked
Auto generally preferred over manual
Short rear overhangs minimise pendulum effect
Firm suspension or auto ride height is best
Sufficient capacity in the car for a decent noseweight of the van. This is laid down my the car manufacture, the higher the better - minimum of 75kg really
Long wheelbase improves stability
Hope that helps!
Having recently had our old Hilux stolen we're recently bought an old A6 2.5 TDI Quattro as a towcar. Seemed about the best compromise between excessive fuel costs and capability that we could find, it will pull 2100kg and from previous experience quattro is pretty good on mud.
The Audi allroad looked to be perfect but fuel economy is awful and the air suspension is reputed to be unreliable. It's also incredibly expensive to repair when it fails.
The Audi allroad looked to be perfect but fuel economy is awful and the air suspension is reputed to be unreliable. It's also incredibly expensive to repair when it fails.
NiceCupOfTea said:
I find this odd. OK, I have never towed and have never driven a modern turbo diesel, but in a relatively small car won't there be a bit more "tail wagging the dog"? Plus a relatively small TDI will need working pretty hard surely - and will require a lot of gear changing in order to keep the turbo on song...
Even small cars are flipping heavy nowadays. A corsa vxr weighs as much as my cavalier gsi did (!). Provided the van is loaded correctly (i.e. not nose or tail heavy) and you are around 85-90% of the car you'll be fine. Most caravans you see "wagging" are either badly loaded or too heavy for the car.
Turbo diesels are good for towing because the torque is all low down in the rev range and they tend to have quite flat torque curves - I don't remember the exact details but Dad used to tow with an late Astra DTI, it had 170lb/ft from something like 1800rpm to something close to 3k (keep in mind redline was 4.5k). He was towing a fairly heavy van at the time and it just made towing easy.
When he bought that car he had been towing with a mk3 cavalier 2.0 8v which had similar traits - low down torque. When he decided to replace the cavalier it was pretty obvious that a 2.0 16v engine wasn't going to cut it - no low down torque which meant you would be up and down the gearbox whilst putting a fair bit of strain on the engine. The only alternative was to get a big v6, but then you've got worse economy, higher tax / servicing etc.
He's now got a Zafira (just an overgrown astra remember) because its heavier, so he can tow a heavier van, again low down torque makes it easy
NiceCupOfTea said:
My parents have a normal sized sort of caravan and my dad has been looking at changing his car for towing.
Currently he has a Saab 9000 2.3T, so pretty torquey with the turbo, has been fine for smaller caravans/trailers in the past. Also an e36 323 which he hasn't tried towing it with yet.
He is looking at diesel Audi All-roads and Volvo cross country V70s.
So, I suppose the question is: FWD/RWD/AWD, and large petrol engine normally aspirated, smaller petrol turbo, or diesel turbo?
My gut feeling is to avoid diesels - he doesn't do a huge mileage and I worry about DPF failures, etc. Also, although torquey isn't all the torque within a limited rev range meaning they need a lot of stirring? Given the low mileage I reckon a 6-pot petrol might do the job, maybe an e39 528 manual touring... But would AWD be a better way to go?
Anyway, I throw the floor open to the experts
I know it's a cliche, but I use a Volvo V70 petrol. A 2001 N/a 140 hp 2.5l 5 cylinder with a manual gearbox. Tows my caravan, a Swift Corvette like it isn't there. That is the lowest powered V70 there is. Large and stable and gives me 32 mpg in normal use, and just about the same, 28 mpg towing. Currently he has a Saab 9000 2.3T, so pretty torquey with the turbo, has been fine for smaller caravans/trailers in the past. Also an e36 323 which he hasn't tried towing it with yet.
He is looking at diesel Audi All-roads and Volvo cross country V70s.
So, I suppose the question is: FWD/RWD/AWD, and large petrol engine normally aspirated, smaller petrol turbo, or diesel turbo?
My gut feeling is to avoid diesels - he doesn't do a huge mileage and I worry about DPF failures, etc. Also, although torquey isn't all the torque within a limited rev range meaning they need a lot of stirring? Given the low mileage I reckon a 6-pot petrol might do the job, maybe an e39 528 manual touring... But would AWD be a better way to go?
Anyway, I throw the floor open to the experts
Watchman said:
Diesels are some of the best tow vehicles but not little 4-pot ones. Get a V6 or something where it's not straining all the time.
Given the fact that "towing" usually means driving off asphalt, I would always choose a 4WD car. That said, my Dad only had FWD and RWD but towed our caravans all over the UK in all weathers.
Caravans are bigger these days although better materials mean lighter per given-size. I'd still go 4WD.
We have a Merc ML320CDI which would tow a house, and my 3-litre Legacy which surprises people when I rescue their massively bigger cars in the snow. Mine's a thirsty bugger though - 20mpg when I'm not towing. It'll pull 1800Kg (gross trailer weight) according to the specifications. The ML would literally tow a house - I can't remember what it's rated for but the towbar shames some bridges.
Yes it has more than enough power to tow anything, but The problem with the Merc ( I've just got rid of mine) is the low nose weight - its only rated at 84Kg. That meant that I had to load my van tail heavy, which is not good. Got an X5 now - 140kg nose weight makes much stabler towing. Ignore the rated weight for towing - most towcars are rated above their kerbweight, but in the UK you cannot tow a van that has a plated weight more than the car.Given the fact that "towing" usually means driving off asphalt, I would always choose a 4WD car. That said, my Dad only had FWD and RWD but towed our caravans all over the UK in all weathers.
Caravans are bigger these days although better materials mean lighter per given-size. I'd still go 4WD.
We have a Merc ML320CDI which would tow a house, and my 3-litre Legacy which surprises people when I rescue their massively bigger cars in the snow. Mine's a thirsty bugger though - 20mpg when I'm not towing. It'll pull 1800Kg (gross trailer weight) according to the specifications. The ML would literally tow a house - I can't remember what it's rated for but the towbar shames some bridges.
For towing you need torque not BHP, and a BIG turbo diesel is about as good as it gets.
rix said:
Only towed with two cars, my previous car, a petrol Octavia vRS manual and my current, a 535d auto. The Octavia was ok, but never felt that stable with a 1300kg van. The same van on the E60 is so much better. Much more stable due to the extra weight of the tow car, and with a lot more traction available on soft ground due to the weight of the van being over the rear wheels. I prefer the auto for towing but use the manual mode so it can be asked to cruise in a more efficient gear.
Generally speaking the stuff that makes a good tow car is as follows:
Sufficient mass - it is generally recommended that the max laidenweight of the van is no more than 85% of the cars kerb weight, however in terms of legality, the max permissible weight may be more - see the V5 doc.
Drive: in order of preference, 4wd, RWD, FWD.
Plenty of torque - diesels are liked
Auto generally preferred over manual
Short rear overhangs minimise pendulum effect
Firm suspension or auto ride height is best
Sufficient capacity in the car for a decent noseweight of the van. This is laid down my the car manufacture, the higher the better - minimum of 75kg really
Long wheelbase improves stability
Hope that helps!
The problem with the V5 is that it will state the manufacturer's towing limit, which will almost certainly be more than the car's kerbweight. On a UK licence you cannot tow more than the weight of the car. Very misleading.Generally speaking the stuff that makes a good tow car is as follows:
Sufficient mass - it is generally recommended that the max laidenweight of the van is no more than 85% of the cars kerb weight, however in terms of legality, the max permissible weight may be more - see the V5 doc.
Drive: in order of preference, 4wd, RWD, FWD.
Plenty of torque - diesels are liked
Auto generally preferred over manual
Short rear overhangs minimise pendulum effect
Firm suspension or auto ride height is best
Sufficient capacity in the car for a decent noseweight of the van. This is laid down my the car manufacture, the higher the better - minimum of 75kg really
Long wheelbase improves stability
Hope that helps!
Although not towed a caravan with it, my Signum 3.0dt makes a great tow car.
Masses of torque, auto, long wheelbase (same as vectra estate) with short overhangs. Only issue is fwd which means it can loose grip if trying to pull a stuck boat & trailer out of the mud!
Dirt cheap to buy and hasn't actually gone wrong in it's now 124k mile history.
Managed 38mpg going to Saundersfoot from Preston with two boats on the back and 4 up with a weeks work of gear in the boot.
Masses of torque, auto, long wheelbase (same as vectra estate) with short overhangs. Only issue is fwd which means it can loose grip if trying to pull a stuck boat & trailer out of the mud!
Dirt cheap to buy and hasn't actually gone wrong in it's now 124k mile history.
Managed 38mpg going to Saundersfoot from Preston with two boats on the back and 4 up with a weeks work of gear in the boot.
Edited by size13 on Monday 23 July 11:08
nutsytvr said:
The problem with the V5 is that it will state the manufacturer's towing limit, which will almost certainly be more than the car's kerbweight. On a UK licence you cannot tow more than the weight of the car. Very misleading.
Not quite true. If you have a post 1997 licence then yes, your limits are 3500 KGs gross train weight providing the laiden weight of the trailer/caravan does not exceed the unlaiden weight of the car, and obviously within the plated weights. For older licence holders with B+E parts (pOst 1997), you can legally drive up to the plated weights upto a GTW of 8.25 tonnes, I.e the lesser of the Gross Train Weight or Hthe maximum allowed laiden weight.None of the above changes the generally accepted recommendation that the loaded weight of a caravan (quite different to other types of trailers) shouldn't generally exceed circa 85% of the unlaiden weight of the tow car...
rix said:
Not quite true. If you have a post 1997 licence then yes, your limits are 3500 KGs gross train weight providing the laiden weight of the trailer/caravan does not exceed the unlaiden weight of the car, and obviously within the plated weights. For older licence holders with B+E parts (pOst 1997), you can legally drive up to the plated weights upto a GTW of 8.25 tonnes, I.e the lesser of the Gross Train Weight or Hthe maximum allowed laiden weight.
None of the above changes the generally accepted recommendation that the loaded weight of a caravan (quite different to other types of trailers) shouldn't generally exceed circa 85% of the unlaiden weight of the tow car...
RixNone of the above changes the generally accepted recommendation that the loaded weight of a caravan (quite different to other types of trailers) shouldn't generally exceed circa 85% of the unlaiden weight of the tow car...
I think you mean Pre 1997?
That's not what the DVLA have told me. I have B + E - My outfit (X5 & Sterling EMerald ELite) is 4000Kg GTW and I was concerned about the limit, so checked with DVLA. They told me I can drive up to GTW 8.5t providing the trailer plated weight does not exceed the manufacturers kerbweight of t he vehicle. So they say. How can mere mortals such as us know what is correct when the DVLA themselves don't seem to know.
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