High Mileage: Crafter vs Sprinter
Discussion
Been looking at some higher mileage LWB Sprinter and Crafters.
Mileages knocking on for 200k but wracking them up at ~50k/yr so beyond the likely realms of even a 7-days-a-week multidrop warrior.
Any particular known issues I should be wary of?
Thought process is essentially; if I go a bit higher miles, I can get something likely not from a courier, that’s probably done motorway miles and comfortably inside LEZ compliance.
Mileages knocking on for 200k but wracking them up at ~50k/yr so beyond the likely realms of even a 7-days-a-week multidrop warrior.
Any particular known issues I should be wary of?
Thought process is essentially; if I go a bit higher miles, I can get something likely not from a courier, that’s probably done motorway miles and comfortably inside LEZ compliance.
I run a dozen of them in connection with my Business and have owned every Model since their introduction in the late nineties . I would never consider a Volkswagen . I don't understand what you are saying about mileage and I am from Glasgow too .
Edited by reddiesel on Thursday 8th February 05:57
The choice between the two, Sprinter all day long.
Personally, Iveco for me over both of them, currently have a Sprinter and an Iveco, and there is only a Fiat key I look for in the morning.
Yesterday there was a scrapper on the Merc, transhipped it, just did not fancy the 12 mile round trip iin it over the Ivaco, no aircon lol.
Personally, Iveco for me over both of them, currently have a Sprinter and an Iveco, and there is only a Fiat key I look for in the morning.
Yesterday there was a scrapper on the Merc, transhipped it, just did not fancy the 12 mile round trip iin it over the Ivaco, no aircon lol.
anyoldcardave said:
The choice between the two, Sprinter all day long.
Personally, Iveco for me over both of them, currently have a Sprinter and an Iveco, and there is only a Fiat key I look for in the morning.
Yesterday there was a scrapper on the Merc, transhipped it, just did not fancy the 12 mile round trip iin it over the Ivaco, no aircon lol.
Personally, Iveco for me over both of them, currently have a Sprinter and an Iveco, and there is only a Fiat key I look for in the morning.
Yesterday there was a scrapper on the Merc, transhipped it, just did not fancy the 12 mile round trip iin it over the Ivaco, no aircon lol.
Anyone?
emicen said:
Been looking at some higher mileage LWB Sprinter and Crafters.
Mileages knocking on for 200k but wracking them up at ~50k/yr so beyond the likely realms of even a 7-days-a-week multidrop warrior.
Any particular known issues I should be wary of?
Thought process is essentially; if I go a bit higher miles, I can get something likely not from a courier, that’s probably done motorway miles and comfortably inside LEZ compliance.
No personal experience of driving a Crafter, but I have a VW van dealership opposite my house and talk to some of the lads there and also see the vans parked up on the road waiting before / after going on for work. Lots of 2-3 year old vans already have rot well established on the lower doors, side panels, back doors, door hinges and underside. They very much remind me of how the original Sprinters used to be in that department, but the Sprinters seem to be much better now.Mileages knocking on for 200k but wracking them up at ~50k/yr so beyond the likely realms of even a 7-days-a-week multidrop warrior.
Any particular known issues I should be wary of?
Thought process is essentially; if I go a bit higher miles, I can get something likely not from a courier, that’s probably done motorway miles and comfortably inside LEZ compliance.
I know you haven't mentioned them - and perhaps for good reason - but whatever you do, don't be tempted by the comparative cheapness of the Fiat stable (Ducato, Boxer, Relay, Movano). Absolutely everything is made from cheese on them and it'll never be out of the garage. They are basically the Landrover and Alfa Romeo of the van world.
I think sometimes Sprinters take a bit of a caning over rust and some I find is a bit unfair . The biggest problem I used to find and there isn’t a version I haven’t owned is poor quality repair work . The biggest percentage are subject to leasing agreements and when they get banged it’s a cheap tart up and move them on .
At present I am watching these new Amazon Electric Sprinters being completely wrecked by careless drivers and speaking as someone who has scrimped and saved in the early days to buy these vans I find it heartbreaking
At present I am watching these new Amazon Electric Sprinters being completely wrecked by careless drivers and speaking as someone who has scrimped and saved in the early days to buy these vans I find it heartbreaking
anyoldcardave said:
The choice between the two, Sprinter all day long.
Personally, Iveco for me over both of them, currently have a Sprinter and an Iveco, and there is only a Fiat key I look for in the morning.
Yesterday there was a scrapper on the Merc, transhipped it, just did not fancy the 12 mile round trip iin it over the Ivaco, no aircon lol.
A Sprinter will outperform and outlast any Iveco Dave and although Mercedes were never great with extras it’s a much more comfortable place to sit also .Personally, Iveco for me over both of them, currently have a Sprinter and an Iveco, and there is only a Fiat key I look for in the morning.
Yesterday there was a scrapper on the Merc, transhipped it, just did not fancy the 12 mile round trip iin it over the Ivaco, no aircon lol.
reddiesel said:
A Sprinter will outperform and outlast any Iveco Dave and although Mercedes were never great with extras it’s a much more comfortable place to sit also .
Got to disagree there, got my first Iveco in 2004, a used 2001 35s11, never missed a beat in 11 years, 2.8 with a mechanical pump, ran a 2002 van as well for over 10years, 2.8 with Ecu management. The 2018 sprinter we have now has only done 85k, and has been nothing but trouble, you cannot fill them to level with engine oil, it sets of sensors, ABS faults repeatedly, SRS faults repeatedly, feels heavy to drive, don,t like the driving position, nowhere near as economical as the new Iveco, both autos, and the gearbox is nowhere near as good as the Iveco.
The 2021 Nissan NV400 was far better than the sprinter, when it came to trading one in for the Iveco, the Nissan offered a far better deal than the Sprinter, so kind of stuck with it as a back up truck, but it will not be first choice for any job, It is not a nice truck to drive compared to others we have had, even the 2.2 transit was better to drive, more economical, and mapped for much more power.
I have done 33k in the Iveco, since new it has averaged 32 mpg, often running at over 4 tonnes, does more on summer diesel as they all do, the 2.3 never comes out of eco mode, there is no need, well proven engine that is used by most others, as is the 8 speed auto, from GM yanks to Lambos, with loads more power. It is as light to drive as any car and have done a thousand miles in a day with it, Would not chance that, or want to in the Sprinter.
it is still on all 6 Continentals it came on, and they have loads of life yet, plenty of ex supermarket ones with hundreds of thousands of miles, as there are sprinters, for everyday use, the Iveco wins hands down. The sprinter is trading on the Merc Badge,
anyoldcardave said:
Got to disagree there, got my first Iveco in 2004, a used 2001 35s11, never missed a beat in 11 years, 2.8 with a mechanical pump, ran a 2002 van as well for over 10years, 2.8 with Ecu management.
The 2018 sprinter we have now has only done 85k, and has been nothing but trouble, you cannot fill them to level with engine oil, it sets of sensors, ABS faults repeatedly, SRS faults repeatedly, feels heavy to drive, don,t like the driving position, nowhere near as economical as the new Iveco, both autos, and the gearbox is nowhere near as good as the Iveco.
The 2021 Nissan NV400 was far better than the sprinter, when it came to trading one in for the Iveco, the Nissan offered a far better deal than the Sprinter, so kind of stuck with it as a back up truck, but it will not be first choice for any job, It is not a nice truck to drive compared to others we have had, even the 2.2 transit was better to drive, more economical, and mapped for much more power.
I have done 33k in the Iveco, since new it has averaged 32 mpg, often running at over 4 tonnes, does more on summer diesel as they all do, the 2.3 never comes out of eco mode, there is no need, well proven engine that is used by most others, as is the 8 speed auto, from GM yanks to Lambos, with loads more power. It is as light to drive as any car and have done a thousand miles in a day with it, Would not chance that, or want to in the Sprinter.
it is still on all 6 Continentals it came on, and they have loads of life yet, plenty of ex supermarket ones with hundreds of thousands of miles, as there are sprinters, for everyday use, the Iveco wins hands down. The sprinter is trading on the Merc Badge,
Dave if that's your experience then fair play to you but it isn't one shared by me or many of the fleet operators up and down the Country . The latest versions for me suffer from over aggressive safety technology with far too much tech that you have to fiddle with almost continuously . Adblue I also find to be a complete nuisance . Mileage capability , I have one just now on 380,000 I have never come across any Iveco van in the same condition as a Sprinter with this mileage showing , perhaps you have ? If so feel free to point me in the directionThe 2018 sprinter we have now has only done 85k, and has been nothing but trouble, you cannot fill them to level with engine oil, it sets of sensors, ABS faults repeatedly, SRS faults repeatedly, feels heavy to drive, don,t like the driving position, nowhere near as economical as the new Iveco, both autos, and the gearbox is nowhere near as good as the Iveco.
The 2021 Nissan NV400 was far better than the sprinter, when it came to trading one in for the Iveco, the Nissan offered a far better deal than the Sprinter, so kind of stuck with it as a back up truck, but it will not be first choice for any job, It is not a nice truck to drive compared to others we have had, even the 2.2 transit was better to drive, more economical, and mapped for much more power.
I have done 33k in the Iveco, since new it has averaged 32 mpg, often running at over 4 tonnes, does more on summer diesel as they all do, the 2.3 never comes out of eco mode, there is no need, well proven engine that is used by most others, as is the 8 speed auto, from GM yanks to Lambos, with loads more power. It is as light to drive as any car and have done a thousand miles in a day with it, Would not chance that, or want to in the Sprinter.
it is still on all 6 Continentals it came on, and they have loads of life yet, plenty of ex supermarket ones with hundreds of thousands of miles, as there are sprinters, for everyday use, the Iveco wins hands down. The sprinter is trading on the Merc Badge,
As regards the Nissan , I don't think you can fault the Sprinter just because some chancer offered you a crap px figure .
Since the Sprinters inception I must have owned almost 100 of all the various reiterations and they aren't without fault . They are expensive when buying new and can be a difficult Van to buy secondhand . Mercedes dealers I have also found to be pretty crap .
Sprinters come with continentals too Dave so I don't know what your point is there .
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/iveco/daily
reddiesel said:
Dave if that's your experience then fair play to you but it isn't one shared by me or many of the fleet operators up and down the Country . The latest versions for me suffer from over aggressive safety technology with far too much tech that you have to fiddle with almost continuously . Adblue I also find to be a complete nuisance . Mileage capability , I have one just now on 380,000 I have never come across any Iveco van in the same condition as a Sprinter with this mileage showing , perhaps you have ? If so feel free to point me in the direction
As regards the Nissan , I don't think you can fault the Sprinter just because some chancer offered you a crap px figure .
Since the Sprinters inception I must have owned almost 100 of all the various reiterations and they aren't without fault . They are expensive when buying new and can be a difficult Van to buy secondhand . Mercedes dealers I have also found to be pretty crap .
Sprinters come with continentals too Dave so I don't know what your point is there .
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/iveco/daily
The latest version of the Iveco has been around since 2014, and the roads are full of them, my mate sells ex Tesco ones, but only Euro 6 ones, and some of them are well over 200k, fleet operators are using them. As regards the Nissan , I don't think you can fault the Sprinter just because some chancer offered you a crap px figure .
Since the Sprinters inception I must have owned almost 100 of all the various reiterations and they aren't without fault . They are expensive when buying new and can be a difficult Van to buy secondhand . Mercedes dealers I have also found to be pretty crap .
Sprinters come with continentals too Dave so I don't know what your point is there .
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/iveco/daily
The 2018 SPRINTER HAS ADBLUE, or did, been mapped out because of tomany issues with i, not done it with the Iveco for obvious reasons, but not had a single issue with it, costs 12 quid to fill it up from 40% and that lasts more than a month.
Obviously you have not driven one, if you did, especially an auto, you would know why there are so many on the road and why the sprinter feels sluggish, heavy, and the auto gearbox more like a 70,s slush box.
If you avoid adblue, you are running older ones, which are fine for what they are, but who designs a vehicle you cannot run at full oil capacity? All the Euro 6 ones suffer with this, and they have far more repeated sensor issues with SRS, ABS, and go into limp mode at will.
The cruise on a stalk is fiddly, the latest ones have gone back to stalk gearbox selection for the auto, and the seats are cheap and awful. 2001 Fiestas got aircon, yet it is not standard on a Sprinter, something a driver lives in lol.
The Iveco gear selector falls easily into the left hand, cruise , phone, radio and menu controls are on the steering wheel, like a modern car, the seat is excellent, the steering wheel is not facing you, and it does not rattle like the Sprinter does.
No driver, as in a driver that likes driving, given an extended test drive, would chose any 3.5 tonne van or truck, other than the Iveco.
Back when I had the old first series 35s 2.8,s I was on the Iveco forums, I went to other trucks after that, because the second generation was so ugly, and the 2.3 had teething issues, Transit first, then Nissan NV400, which has the Iveco engine, on that forum, a guy had a 2.8, that he changed all the oils in, every 5000 miles, engine, gearbox and rear axle, using EP90 instead of the recommended thick stuff.
His van, last time I was on there, had covered 1.2 million miles, on the same running gear, you can probably find it if you search for it.
You cannot avoid adblue forever, and a Euro 6 merc has design faults, is taking a step back in time in the cab, and will drive you bonkers with repeated warning lights, and I am not alone in having repeated issues with mine.
Back when I drove heavies, the fitter had a Sprinter, he has since gone out on his own, with his three sons, I spoke to him recently, and asked if he was running 4 sprinters, the reply was "not a hope, 3 Euro 6 Iveco, and a Connect for the youngest.
When you have to get into the Euro 6 world, you will realise the Sprinter is not what it was, you tell me why running a van at 3/4 oil capacity is a good idea? And why Mercedes have no answer to the issue, other than running below capacity and what the dip stick and dash reading tells you it should have.
Oh, and I do up to 10000 miles annualy, in customers cars or the truck, spend a lot of time passing broken down vans, often 2.0 litre Transits, but plenty of others, only seen 1 new shape Iveco with something other than a puncture.
In 33000 miles plus, not had a single warning light, not put tyres, or break pads on it, The manual NV400 had pads and tyres all round at about 25k, it was very slightly more economical, with its Iveco engine, it had aircon,it was a better truck than the 2018 Sprinter, but not a patch on the Auto Iveco, that gearbox is superb.
Not so keen on the 2 year 30k service intervals, so cut it in 3, it takes less than an hour to do oil and filters myself. Genuine parts and quality correct oil comes to under a ton, money well spent.
BrownBottle said:
Cruise on a stalk?
That's the old shape sprinter the current one from 68 plate onwards has it on the steering wheel.
I see sprinters everywhere and I see very few Iveco vans on the road, there's a reason for that, most people wouldn't touch them with a barge pole.
You must drive on different roads to me lol, That's the old shape sprinter the current one from 68 plate onwards has it on the steering wheel.
I see sprinters everywhere and I see very few Iveco vans on the road, there's a reason for that, most people wouldn't touch them with a barge pole.
I tried the latest version of the sprinter, rented one for a few days, first problem was a low oil warning on start up the following morning, called them, and they still have the same problem as the one I have, they cannot run with the oil level where it should be, and Mercedes cannot fix it.
The cab is better, but the seats are not.
The Mercedes small van is a Renault, the pick up truck a Nissan, who build the sprinter lol?
Just about every other 3.5 tonnes van or truck use the Iveco engine, not the Mercedes, though they supply car engines to anyone, while using Renault engines in smaller models.
Not 1 Iveco I have had over 20 years has given me problems, I can change the oil and fill it to the mark as intended, not guessing where the sensors will put it into limp mode.
I run both, and the Mercedes is nowhere near as light and easy to use, nor a nicer place to sit in, there is always problems with the Mercedes, ABS, SRS, oil level and ad blue, the auto gearbox is slow changing, it is nowhere near as economical and aircon is lacking, from a luxury car maker ?
Sure, the 2.1 is a reliable unit, ruined by poor build quality and trying to make a very dated engine meet emission standards.
Meanwhile, the 2.3 has been around long enough to iron out faults, the auto gearbox is superb and used in cars with much more power, and Renault,Vauxhall, Fiat, Peugeot and Nissan cannot find a better engine, or design one.
Barge pole lol, thats how I feel about the sprinter, I bought the 2018 because it was cheap and low miles, for a van @ 83k, it was 8.5 grand as a lwb chassis cab, the 40k for the new Iveco, already built was better money spent, it has never gone into limp mode lol, drives more like a car, does more than acceptable mpg figures and is never stressed, no matter what the load.
At 65 mph on cruise it sits at 1800 rpm, no hill slows it, rarely needs to drop a cog on motorway hills, if I knock it down to 60, returns 38 mpg on a run, never needs to come out of eco mode.
3.5 tonners have been my bread and butter for more years than I care to remember, drivers spend their life in them, and the sprinter has gone downhill over the years, while the Iveco has got better, even my old 2001 35s11 was a nicer thing to drive than the equivelant sprinter and the old 2.8 was better in every way.
Recovery fleet operators know their trucks, and twin wheel Ivecos in 3.5, 5.2 and 7,2 tonnes are often the truck used, can you get a 3.5 tonne twin rear wheel sprinter? Or one on full air ride? An Extra long chassis? Options are not as flexible.
Adblue is just par for the course now, and on the Iveco it works as it should, had to map it out of the sprinter because it did not, which could cause issues at a check point, def will if they get busy lol.
I have to go from Essex to Aberdeen this week, and it will not be in the sprinter, there is nothing about it that is better than the Iveco, and it is looking less and less likely I need a back up truck, because the Iveco does everything it can do, better.
You all need to go and rent one for a week, as I do to test drive, pref. an auto, then come and tell me the sprinter is better.
Mercedes have invested little in the lastest model over the last, and gone back to column change for the auto lol, we are back in the 50,s. Could not even fix the oil level issues ffs.
I drove a 67 plate sprinter from brand new until last year and covered 125000 miles in it, never once did I have any warnings on the dash due to or relating to the engine oil level in 6 years, serviced by Mercedes every year.
From your posts it sounds like you mainly sit on the motorway doing long journeys, any van van do that. My miles in the sprinter were hard miles doing anything up to 200 deliveries a day for 6 years.
Courier companies know a bit about buying and running fleets of vans and they're probably the hardest on them out there. I haven't seen any of the main players running Ivecos.
Plenty of my colleagues buy and run their own vans, they have to be up to the job their livelihood literally depends on it. They buy sprinters, transits, and sometimes those Peugeot/Citroen/Fiat ones mainly because they're cheap. I have never seen any of them run an Iveco, not even one. Every single driver that I've spoken to says the sprinter is the best mainly due to durability and reliability, it matters to them because they lose money if it breaks down or spends too much time in the garage.
I now drive a current sprinter and have covered over 20,000 hard miles in just under a year and I can tell you it's vastly better than the previous model which was a bit agricultural which you touched on yourself.
The composure of the chassis and suspension are much improved, the steering which was a weak point mainly down to being far too heavy for low speed manoeuvring is electric and much lighter which is a godsend for a courier. The seats are much more comfortable and supportive so I don't get where your comment regarding them is coming from. Keyless start is also amazing compared to starting with a key 130 times a day. The controls all feel better, the brake pedal is really great on them as are the pedal positions and feel in general, much better than the spindley little petals that tend to sit a bit offset in most other vans. The NVH at speed is much better, the reality is it's just a much improved van in every way apart from the old one having bigger sun visors they were admittedly much better
ETA
On autotrader right now 2168 sprinters for sale vs 490 Ivecos kind of speaks volumes (pardon the pun) as to what vans fleet managers are running and have been running.
Of those 2168 sprinters only 231 of them are automatics, no one uses them so your point about them isn't really that relevent.
From your posts it sounds like you mainly sit on the motorway doing long journeys, any van van do that. My miles in the sprinter were hard miles doing anything up to 200 deliveries a day for 6 years.
Courier companies know a bit about buying and running fleets of vans and they're probably the hardest on them out there. I haven't seen any of the main players running Ivecos.
Plenty of my colleagues buy and run their own vans, they have to be up to the job their livelihood literally depends on it. They buy sprinters, transits, and sometimes those Peugeot/Citroen/Fiat ones mainly because they're cheap. I have never seen any of them run an Iveco, not even one. Every single driver that I've spoken to says the sprinter is the best mainly due to durability and reliability, it matters to them because they lose money if it breaks down or spends too much time in the garage.
I now drive a current sprinter and have covered over 20,000 hard miles in just under a year and I can tell you it's vastly better than the previous model which was a bit agricultural which you touched on yourself.
The composure of the chassis and suspension are much improved, the steering which was a weak point mainly down to being far too heavy for low speed manoeuvring is electric and much lighter which is a godsend for a courier. The seats are much more comfortable and supportive so I don't get where your comment regarding them is coming from. Keyless start is also amazing compared to starting with a key 130 times a day. The controls all feel better, the brake pedal is really great on them as are the pedal positions and feel in general, much better than the spindley little petals that tend to sit a bit offset in most other vans. The NVH at speed is much better, the reality is it's just a much improved van in every way apart from the old one having bigger sun visors they were admittedly much better
ETA
On autotrader right now 2168 sprinters for sale vs 490 Ivecos kind of speaks volumes (pardon the pun) as to what vans fleet managers are running and have been running.
Of those 2168 sprinters only 231 of them are automatics, no one uses them so your point about them isn't really that relevent.
Edited by BrownBottle on Sunday 21st April 17:17
2014 516 Sprinter, Owner from new sold it with 250k miles..... Always serviced by Mercedes, Clutch/Flywheel around 180k and had an issue with an AdBlue injector.
Other than that, just brakes and tyres.
Currently in a 2022 Sprinter 516 Auto (5500kg) About 60k miles in, Had pads all round at 40ish k miles, On its second set of tyres and still a good few thousand miles left on them.... Had 1 stupid issue where it took a few attempts to start but that turned out to be a voltage reg for the start/stop. (Apparently common enough)
Averaging about 27ish mpg.
There's a reason every second Minicoach / Minibus you see on the road is a Sprinter.
Other than that, just brakes and tyres.
Currently in a 2022 Sprinter 516 Auto (5500kg) About 60k miles in, Had pads all round at 40ish k miles, On its second set of tyres and still a good few thousand miles left on them.... Had 1 stupid issue where it took a few attempts to start but that turned out to be a voltage reg for the start/stop. (Apparently common enough)
Averaging about 27ish mpg.
There's a reason every second Minicoach / Minibus you see on the road is a Sprinter.
E36Ross said:
2014 516 Sprinter, Owner from new sold it with 250k miles..... Always serviced by Mercedes, Clutch/Flywheel around 180k and had an issue with an AdBlue injector.
Other than that, just brakes and tyres.
Currently in a 2022 Sprinter 516 Auto (5500kg) About 60k miles in, Had pads all round at 40ish k miles, On its second set of tyres and still a good few thousand miles left on them.... Had 1 stupid issue where it took a few attempts to start but that turned out to be a voltage reg for the start/stop. (Apparently common enough)
Averaging about 27ish mpg.
There's a reason every second Minicoach / Minibus you see on the road is a Sprinter.
That may be the case with the bigger ones with bigger engines, but not with the 3.5 tonne with the 2.1. Other than that, just brakes and tyres.
Currently in a 2022 Sprinter 516 Auto (5500kg) About 60k miles in, Had pads all round at 40ish k miles, On its second set of tyres and still a good few thousand miles left on them.... Had 1 stupid issue where it took a few attempts to start but that turned out to be a voltage reg for the start/stop. (Apparently common enough)
Averaging about 27ish mpg.
There's a reason every second Minicoach / Minibus you see on the road is a Sprinter.
From 70 plate onwards, they are fitted with the 654 engine, and the Tesco fleet operator in this part of the world, realised by the time 71 plates arrived, they are struggling to get 100k from them, and told Tesco to buy no more.
Lot of mention of large fleets on this thread, so a little insight from the same fleet operator.
Tesco switched from Iveco to Mercedes in 2018, with all the adblue issues, injector issues, other issues, they started negotiations to return to Iveco, late 2021.
Iveco refused to meet their price demands, did not need the business obviously.
So in this part of the world they went LDV EV, which caused lots of problems, installing chargers etc, but finding they are rated at 4.2 tonne, most drivers were not licensed to drive them. Obviously they are now.
2 years in, despite them plastering on the back of every one, " This vehicle is electric, our whole fleet will be by 2028" They have relented, and done a deal with Iveco, for DIESELS. and apparently some EV Iveco for city work.
Friends have bought a couple of Sprinters recently, on the basis they kept the good ones to last, and they are cheap, a 68 and a 19 plate, with around 200k, THEY BOTH CAME DIRECT FROM TESCO WITH ADBLUE DELETE.
You are recommending 8 plus year old Euro 5, half a million mile pogglers to the original poster, TRIGGERS BROOM comes to mind, because you are scared of Adblue.
It has been around nearly 20 years, my 2007 Euro 5 Daf had it, and most have made it work, except Mercedes on the old 2.1, for vans and cars, once problems start, delete is the only answer, illegal, but even major fleets do it.
Lets look at fleets in this area.
Eof E Ambulance have gone all Fiat, eexcept for some old command unit Sprinters.
London Ambulance are replacing their aging fleet of sprinters with Transits, started in 2024.
Curries paid up lol, All Iveco for home delivery.
Asda have gone all Transit.
Ocado have older, up to 22 Sprinters, but 2024 arrivals are Transit.
I could go on, they are not paying the price demands of Iveco, but dumping Sprinters wholesale, not surprising as the latest 2.1 "654" is a pile of s
te. A small fleet, African guys who deal in salvage, do some serious miles, dragging trailers, you would think Mercedes was go to for Africans.
They started with a 70 plate, 3.5 tonne Iveco, but with the 210bhp 3 litre, it has done 260k, pulling a trailer with no major issues.
They added another in 2021, done 200k plus, a 5 tonner in 2023, it has done 120k, they got it after mine, so just over a year, and just bought another 2024 3.5 tonne, all towing all the time, all 3 litre, no issues with any of them, not even ad blue lol.
Which brings me to train weight, 7 tonne on the properly built Iveco, 6 tonne on the Sprinter.
This is why you see so many lesser trucks dragging big lumps on trailers, but Empty on the back, thinking they are legal on train weight, but they are exceeding the vehicles towing capacity.
A 5 tonne sprinter only has a train weight of 8 toone.
Even the EE guys, with their big tauts and sleeper pods, or jumbo vans, have dropped the sprinter, and these guys do miles, virtually living in them, Iveco or Renault have overtaken the sprinter big time for them.
For a reliable Euro 6 4 pot 3.5 tonne, there is only 1 option engine wise, and it is the 2.3 Fiat, the 2.1 " 654" Mercedes is a liability, and the older 2.1 risks a prohibition every trip, with ad blue delete. Vosa and DVSA will cotton on soon enough, as they did when the old Euro 5 Daf,s back around 2010, they were mostly running with delete, I know, they caught me lol.
I did my homework, on the adblue, apparently keep it above 35% on the Iveco, you will not get warnings, most Ablue issues are caused by running low or to empty, laziness, except on a sprinter lol.
And for my application, the perfect vehicle, as ordering a 3.5 twin wheel, a bit more money, but you get a conventional sprung, I am sure air is probably an option, 5 tonner, with the 2.3 and a smaller fuel tank.
Because it is that much bigger, the body is a foot longer than the AMS one on the Sprinter, with the same overhang.
Lets not pretend all these 3.5 recovery trucks are running weight legal, especially sprinters towing a trailer, or the others, but I am not the one hanging a car or van of my ass, bouncing on the bump stops, or dragging tale lights along the tarmac.
Should I need to drag one up backwards, rear heavy, it is stable still, not swaying.
Oh, and it is a much better place to sit than my sprinter.
The tin thin bulkhead does not resonate like a steel drum at Carnival weekend, on potholes and bumpy roads, most roads lol, it does not have added percussion from the dashboard.
The sprinter revs to high between changes and cruising, engine and tyre noise is draining on a long trip, as is hanging off the 50.s style upright steering wheel, so is sweating with no aircon.
airbag assist has completely done away with rear end bounce running empty, the sprinter it has not.
The Iveco is everything you would expect from a luxury car maker, in a truck, The Mercedes is not, they put Aircon in all their cars, but not the sprinter, it is an option few take up, probably option on Iveco, don,t know, Mine came with it, as did the NV400 before it, and that was far better than a sprinter.
So who is going to stand up for sprinters with the 654 engine, or even a Euro 6 one ? So far only bigger engines and old Euro 5 pogglers have been recommended.
Edited by anyoldcardave on Sunday 21st July 13:19
anyoldcardave said:
That may be the case with the bigger ones with bigger engines, but not with the 3.5 tonne with the 2.1.
So who is going to stand up for sprinters with the 654 engine, or even a Euro 6 one ? So far only bigger engines and old Euro 5 pogglers have been recommended.
The OM654 is a 2.0.....So who is going to stand up for sprinters with the 654 engine, or even a Euro 6 one ? So far only bigger engines and old Euro 5 pogglers have been recommended.
Edited by anyoldcardave on Sunday 21st July 13:19
Both of mine have been 5500kg 2.1 (OM651), Both Euro 6 including my 2014 as it had the AdBlue option.
The BIGGEST problem with fleets is servicing, My current one is on 40k mile intervals which is stupid..... I don't let it get anywhere near that mileage.
Still in my eyes the best van on the road, maybe not for fleets but owner/drivers who look after them you won't get a better van.
3500kg towing is also an option on the Sprinters, As for the mention of Transits....
Edited by E36Ross on Sunday 21st July 22:17
E36Ross said:
The OM654 is a 2.0.....
Both of mine have been 5500kg 2.1 (OM651), Both Euro 6 including my 2014 as it had the AdBlue option.
The BIGGEST problem with fleets is servicing, My current one is on 40k mile intervals which is stupid..... I don't let it get anywhere near that mileage.
Still in my eyes the best van on the road, maybe not for fleets but owner/drivers who look after them you won't get a better van.
3500kg towing is also an option on the Sprinters, As for the mention of Transits....
We agree on servicing, the Iveco is 30k, it will do it, but I do not want to, 10k is enough, and it is very easy to do myself.Both of mine have been 5500kg 2.1 (OM651), Both Euro 6 including my 2014 as it had the AdBlue option.
The BIGGEST problem with fleets is servicing, My current one is on 40k mile intervals which is stupid..... I don't let it get anywhere near that mileage.
Still in my eyes the best van on the road, maybe not for fleets but owner/drivers who look after them you won't get a better van.
3500kg towing is also an option on the Sprinters, As for the mention of Transits....
Edited by E36Ross on Sunday 21st July 22:17
The only downtime was the 30k service, 2 hours, while you wait service, do Mercedes do that?
The dumping of Sprinters for the horrible Transits just shows how poor they are now, but in truth Fords 2.0 wet belt is a better option than the new 654 2.1 from Mercedes, they will do miles, providing the oil is regularly changed, with the correct oil, and you are prepared to change wet belts, the 654 has more serious issues.
Therein lies your problem, when your current ones, that you are happy with, reach the point of no return, are you going to stick with Mercedes ? With this 654 engine?
I still maintain, the best current engine available on new trucks is the Fiat 2.3, for 3.5 tonne anyway.
We are going to disagree over train weight and towing capacity, can you show me a 3.5 tonne Sprinter with a 7 tonne train weight? When the 5 tonne only has an 8 tonne train weight?
E36Ross said:
The OM654 is a 2.0.....
Both of mine have been 5500kg 2.1 (OM651), Both Euro 6 including my 2014 as it had the AdBlue option.
The BIGGEST problem with fleets is servicing, My current one is on 40k mile intervals which is stupid..... I don't let it get anywhere near that mileage.
Still in my eyes the best van on the road, maybe not for fleets but owner/drivers who look after them you won't get a better van.
3500kg towing is also an option on the Sprinters, As for the mention of Transits....
I forgot to ask lol, you say they are FITTED with adblue, but has it been deleted or actually working? Both of mine have been 5500kg 2.1 (OM651), Both Euro 6 including my 2014 as it had the AdBlue option.
The BIGGEST problem with fleets is servicing, My current one is on 40k mile intervals which is stupid..... I don't let it get anywhere near that mileage.
Still in my eyes the best van on the road, maybe not for fleets but owner/drivers who look after them you won't get a better van.
3500kg towing is also an option on the Sprinters, As for the mention of Transits....
Edited by E36Ross on Sunday 21st July 22:17
They are coming direct out of Tesco fleets with Adblue delete.
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