Do I need an O licence towing with a big 4x4 for work?
Discussion
Hi all
Sorry if this has been talked to death somewhere on PH, but I can't seem to find anything definitive using the search function.
The situation is this:
Towing a 3500kg trailer with a 4x4 (vw touareg v10...2600kg kerb, 3500kg towing weight)
For business (so hire and reward)
I know I'll need a tacho, but do I need an operators licence?
Is it exempt?
Theres conflicting information out there stating dual purpose vehicles are exempt but must be under 2040kg empty. But then 4x4's are passenger vehicles. There's even guidance that specifically lists 4x4's as exempt but doesn't ref. the weight.
From what I can tell, if its not exempt - most operators doing similar running a 4x4 seem to just ignore it. Whats the reality?
Sorry if this has been talked to death somewhere on PH, but I can't seem to find anything definitive using the search function.
The situation is this:
Towing a 3500kg trailer with a 4x4 (vw touareg v10...2600kg kerb, 3500kg towing weight)
For business (so hire and reward)
I know I'll need a tacho, but do I need an operators licence?
Is it exempt?
Theres conflicting information out there stating dual purpose vehicles are exempt but must be under 2040kg empty. But then 4x4's are passenger vehicles. There's even guidance that specifically lists 4x4's as exempt but doesn't ref. the weight.
From what I can tell, if its not exempt - most operators doing similar running a 4x4 seem to just ignore it. Whats the reality?
In my opinion, your vehicle/combination/use is not exempt.
Operators Licence and Tachograph requirements differ.
Many 4x4s fit the definition of 'Dual Purpose Vehicles' , and DPVs are exempt from Operators Licence requirements, GV74 here page 4: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
but the maximum unladen weight to be a DPV is 2040kgs, https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regu...
so it appears your Touareg is not a DPV, and therefore NOT exempt from Operators Lic.
There is an exemption from tacho requirements for some Hire and Reward users under 7,500kgs, less than 50kms from base, driving not main activity, laden with tools/equipment goods for drivers use in course of work. It doesn't appear you fit this exemption either.
GV262 https://www.gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hours-goods-ve...
But get your advice from those likely to be pulling you over: https://www.gov.uk/contact-dvsa/y/vehicle-operator...
Operators Licence and Tachograph requirements differ.
Many 4x4s fit the definition of 'Dual Purpose Vehicles' , and DPVs are exempt from Operators Licence requirements, GV74 here page 4: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
but the maximum unladen weight to be a DPV is 2040kgs, https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regu...
so it appears your Touareg is not a DPV, and therefore NOT exempt from Operators Lic.
There is an exemption from tacho requirements for some Hire and Reward users under 7,500kgs, less than 50kms from base, driving not main activity, laden with tools/equipment goods for drivers use in course of work. It doesn't appear you fit this exemption either.
GV262 https://www.gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hours-goods-ve...
But get your advice from those likely to be pulling you over: https://www.gov.uk/contact-dvsa/y/vehicle-operator...
the tribester said:
But get your advice from those likely to be pulling you over: https://www.gov.uk/contact-dvsa/y/vehicle-operator...
Thanks, ive emailed the dvsa for clarification. Will let you know how I get on... 
Yes, some 4x4s are DPVs, and therefore exempt from Operators Licence requirements, as long as the ULW < 2040kgs. Your VW appears too heavy to fit the definition of DPV, and therefore cannot use this exemption.
That's how I understand it, hopefully DVSA will be prompt and clear in their reply.
That's how I understand it, hopefully DVSA will be prompt and clear in their reply.
the tribester said:
Yes, some 4x4s are DPVs, and therefore exempt from Operators Licence requirements, as long as the ULW < 2040kgs. Your VW appears too heavy to fit the definition of DPV, and therefore cannot use this exemption.
That's how I understand it, hopefully DVSA will be prompt and clear in their reply.
Its pretty rediculous if so, outdated weights that badly need updating. Itll be a case of getting a light pickup with a 3.5t tow limit. Got to be less safe than a 2.6t empty touareg with 255 width road tyres.That's how I understand it, hopefully DVSA will be prompt and clear in their reply.
As an aside I hope you have a good size wallet, the V10 was shoehorned into the Towrag, meaning anything other than an oil change in an engine out job (not literally but you catch my drift), the can produce eye watering bills for even basic stuff. I was good to go on one a few years back but reading some experiences of them put me off, which is a shame as they are excellent bits of kit!
geeks said:
As an aside I hope you have a good size wallet, the V10 was shoehorned into the Towrag, meaning anything other than an oil change in an engine out job (not literally but you catch my drift), the can produce eye watering bills for even basic stuff. I was good to go on one a few years back but reading some experiences of them put me off, which is a shame as they are excellent bits of kit!
I have been offered it for 1k and i have a lift/workshop crosseyedlion said:
geeks said:
As an aside I hope you have a good size wallet, the V10 was shoehorned into the Towrag, meaning anything other than an oil change in an engine out job (not literally but you catch my drift), the can produce eye watering bills for even basic stuff. I was good to go on one a few years back but reading some experiences of them put me off, which is a shame as they are excellent bits of kit!
I have been offered it for 1k and i have a lift/workshop geeks said:
crosseyedlion said:
geeks said:
As an aside I hope you have a good size wallet, the V10 was shoehorned into the Towrag, meaning anything other than an oil change in an engine out job (not literally but you catch my drift), the can produce eye watering bills for even basic stuff. I was good to go on one a few years back but reading some experiences of them put me off, which is a shame as they are excellent bits of kit!
I have been offered it for 1k and i have a lift/workshop Based on your current set up, yes you would need one.
Im assuming your thinking of setting up some kind of vehicle recovery / transport business?
My brother owns a company doing this sort of thing and ive got a bit of experience through helping him.
Realistically the chance of being stopped by police / vosa is fairly small. They are much more interested in the bigger vehicles and tend to leave the small guys towing trailers alone. But if you have an accident they will be all over you. Check out the cost of proper insurance too, its eye wateringly expensive to get the proper insurance. Also factor in that there is always a risk you may be moving more than just "cars", criminals can easily put drugs or cash into the vehicles you are then moving around the country for them so you need to make sure you have reasonable paperwork trail and not just "i'm moving a car for Mr Smith with this mobile number".
There are loads of folk doing vehicle transport illegally without operators licences, without proper transport insurance and without the right driving qualifications meaning they are often doing work for much less than £1 per mile, sometimes half that. Its certainly not an easy money maker these days.
To make decent money, you really need to be moving 2 vehicles at a time so either a large truck or a 3.5T recovery truck towing a car trailer.
Im assuming your thinking of setting up some kind of vehicle recovery / transport business?
My brother owns a company doing this sort of thing and ive got a bit of experience through helping him.
Realistically the chance of being stopped by police / vosa is fairly small. They are much more interested in the bigger vehicles and tend to leave the small guys towing trailers alone. But if you have an accident they will be all over you. Check out the cost of proper insurance too, its eye wateringly expensive to get the proper insurance. Also factor in that there is always a risk you may be moving more than just "cars", criminals can easily put drugs or cash into the vehicles you are then moving around the country for them so you need to make sure you have reasonable paperwork trail and not just "i'm moving a car for Mr Smith with this mobile number".
There are loads of folk doing vehicle transport illegally without operators licences, without proper transport insurance and without the right driving qualifications meaning they are often doing work for much less than £1 per mile, sometimes half that. Its certainly not an easy money maker these days.
To make decent money, you really need to be moving 2 vehicles at a time so either a large truck or a 3.5T recovery truck towing a car trailer.
Edited by david mcc on Tuesday 11th August 14:49
All of the pages linked talk about Goods Vehicles.
A Touareg is not a Goods Vehicle. It's a Passenger Vehicle.
It's not a Dual Purpose Vehicle, even if it was under the weight, as DPV is a sub-type of Goods Vehicle.
Or does it become a Goods Vehicle if a trailer is attached?
Edit:
https://www.gov.uk/being-a-goods-vehicle-operator
This page (despite the name) seems to bring in all motor vehicles if they have a trailer.
A Touareg is not a Goods Vehicle. It's a Passenger Vehicle.
It's not a Dual Purpose Vehicle, even if it was under the weight, as DPV is a sub-type of Goods Vehicle.
Or does it become a Goods Vehicle if a trailer is attached?
Edit:
https://www.gov.uk/being-a-goods-vehicle-operator
This page (despite the name) seems to bring in all motor vehicles if they have a trailer.
Edited by blank on Saturday 15th August 09:10
Fugawi said:
Touraeg is not a DPV. A dual purpose vehicle would be a something like a double cab pick up, that can carry a tonne in the back as well as passengers. Yours is a passenger vehicle so single purpose vehicle.
They also explicitly state passenger 4x4's such as landrovers also do not need an operators licence, but they also go on to say 'and other dual purpose vehicles under 2040kg'Can you see the confusion? Are they counting it as a DPV and therefore needing to be under 2040kg? or are they saying landrover type passenger vehicles are exempt? (given that basically every single landrover suitable for towing is over that)
I use a touareg, with tacho. As dvsa state vehicles like land rover (a 110,disco both over 2040kg) are exempt from o licence, they know there is very few vehicles at2040kg that can tow 3500kg, I rang and wrote to them never had an answer. The v6 is heavy on fuel towing, and as mentioned here rates are terrible, everyone wants a backload at £1 a mile or less, and tacho really hinders your scope to earn good money, due to driving hours in a day, have a 3.5t truck which is excellent, just use the touareg when I have to.
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