XLWB/L4H3 3.5T van for towing
Discussion
Hey folks
As per title, ~£6k budget, looking for a 3.5T jumbo/XLWB/L4H3/extended wheelbase high top/big f
king van (so many names/nomenclature from different manufacturers). Basically needing ~4m of internal load length, with standing room & a good towing capacity. It's for my cousin running a small plant maintenance service, so will mainly serve as something of a mobile workshop. He's basically going to be running it topping out the internal payload, ballpark estimations of his equipment & shelving ~600kg, with probably 200-300kg of cargo, plus diesel, driver, drivers sandwiches etc, round it off at close to around a ton, he uses a 2.5ton plant trailer currently & a Nissan Navara, wants much more internal space, but similar towing ability, without going up to a lorry (it will be without trailer 80-90% of the time, so not running the tacho is a bonus).
He's asked my advice as I drive a fair few different vans in my trade, all I can really think to recommend is dual rears for the trailer (plus the way he wants to load up the van it'll be tail heavy on the rear overhang), but I've never realised how rare that is in panel vans. I was initially recommending a Transit or Daily as I know both are reliable & the dailies in particular are built like brick sthouses, but the payload of both in XLWB form with DRWs is going under 1ton which is a bit scary (both are basically 4.5 or 5ton platforms with a 3.5ton stamp on them). They are also rare as hens teeth on the used market. What we have been seeing a lot of, are big DRW Vauxhall Movanos, they seem to be the most common big panel van to be specced with DRWs, on paper they look good with a >1100kg payload and the same 2.2CDTI in the newer Navaras (his 59 plate has served him well), there is a good dozen of them on eBay/Gumtree compared to two Transit Jumbo duallys.
So yeah, anyone have experience with the newer Masters/Movanos who can rate them compared to say a Transit or Daily? And is the idea that you want a twin rear for towing outdated? I am going off my own experience with Luton vans where the single wheels tend to be unstable messes compared to the dual rears, also make balancing axle weight, particularly with trailer nose weight, a breeze. But duals seem so much rarer than they once where.
As per title, ~£6k budget, looking for a 3.5T jumbo/XLWB/L4H3/extended wheelbase high top/big f
king van (so many names/nomenclature from different manufacturers). Basically needing ~4m of internal load length, with standing room & a good towing capacity. It's for my cousin running a small plant maintenance service, so will mainly serve as something of a mobile workshop. He's basically going to be running it topping out the internal payload, ballpark estimations of his equipment & shelving ~600kg, with probably 200-300kg of cargo, plus diesel, driver, drivers sandwiches etc, round it off at close to around a ton, he uses a 2.5ton plant trailer currently & a Nissan Navara, wants much more internal space, but similar towing ability, without going up to a lorry (it will be without trailer 80-90% of the time, so not running the tacho is a bonus).He's asked my advice as I drive a fair few different vans in my trade, all I can really think to recommend is dual rears for the trailer (plus the way he wants to load up the van it'll be tail heavy on the rear overhang), but I've never realised how rare that is in panel vans. I was initially recommending a Transit or Daily as I know both are reliable & the dailies in particular are built like brick s
thouses, but the payload of both in XLWB form with DRWs is going under 1ton which is a bit scary (both are basically 4.5 or 5ton platforms with a 3.5ton stamp on them). They are also rare as hens teeth on the used market. What we have been seeing a lot of, are big DRW Vauxhall Movanos, they seem to be the most common big panel van to be specced with DRWs, on paper they look good with a >1100kg payload and the same 2.2CDTI in the newer Navaras (his 59 plate has served him well), there is a good dozen of them on eBay/Gumtree compared to two Transit Jumbo duallys. So yeah, anyone have experience with the newer Masters/Movanos who can rate them compared to say a Transit or Daily? And is the idea that you want a twin rear for towing outdated? I am going off my own experience with Luton vans where the single wheels tend to be unstable messes compared to the dual rears, also make balancing axle weight, particularly with trailer nose weight, a breeze. But duals seem so much rarer than they once where.
I run an agricultural contracting business, so I'm doing something similar, but just to keep our own kit running! I have 2 Fiat Ducato vans (2.3 JTD engine) fitted out as mobile workshops. They also tow fuel bowsers quite comfortably (allowed to tow up to 2.8 tonnes braked). They are single wheel at the rear.
The reason for choosing the Ducato was that we also need to carry weight and the Ducato can load up to about 1.3t and still be under the 3.5t limit.
You say you need a 4m load area. Is that a typo? My Ducatos have a loading area length of about 2.5m - and there is a longer (Maxi) version. If the 4m is correct I think this will seriously limit your choice and may push you over the 3.5t weight/tacho limit.
HTH
The reason for choosing the Ducato was that we also need to carry weight and the Ducato can load up to about 1.3t and still be under the 3.5t limit.
You say you need a 4m load area. Is that a typo? My Ducatos have a loading area length of about 2.5m - and there is a longer (Maxi) version. If the 4m is correct I think this will seriously limit your choice and may push you over the 3.5t weight/tacho limit.
HTH
Edited by sunbeam alpine on Tuesday 3rd September 21:58
sunbeam alpine said:
I run an agricultural contracting business, so I'm doing something similar, but just to keep our own kit running! I have 2 Fiat Ducato vans (2.3 JTD engine) fitted out as mobile workshops. They also tow fuel bowsers quite comfortably (allowed to tow up to 2.8 tonnes braked). They are single wheel at the rear.
The reason for choosing the Ducato was that we also need to carry weight and the Ducato can load up to about 1.3t and still be under the 3.5t limit.
You say you need a 4m load area. Is that a typo? My Ducatos have a loading area length of about 2.5m - and there is a longer (Maxi) version. If the 4m is correct I think this will seriously limit your choice and may push you over the 3.5t weight/tacho limit.
HTH
Nope, ~3.5 to 4m is what he's wanting, hence the want for an XL wheelbase, he basically wants the ~2m in front of arches for a big work bench & tool storage, plus some large electrical testing kit, then the over the rear arches & over the rear overhang is his 'load' space for the small hand wheeled generators he deals in, and shelving for spare parts. The reason for choosing the Ducato was that we also need to carry weight and the Ducato can load up to about 1.3t and still be under the 3.5t limit.
You say you need a 4m load area. Is that a typo? My Ducatos have a loading area length of about 2.5m - and there is a longer (Maxi) version. If the 4m is correct I think this will seriously limit your choice and may push you over the 3.5t weight/tacho limit.
HTH
Edited by sunbeam alpine on Tuesday 3rd September 21:58
The extended wheelbase vans tend to have ~1.1 to 1.2ton payload with single rear, 0.9T to 1.1T with duals. Personally, I've had experience with Ducatos myself & I wouldn't recommend one to him, I've had the displeasure of running one at 3.5T max payload (one of those ultralight FWD recovery beavertails that you can get ~1.65T of car on), and when maxed out the traction (or lack thereof) really is something, they are perfectly nice vans but I don't think one is heavy duty enough for what he wants.
I think that he'll be needing to consider the 4.3 ton version of the Transit or the equivalent Iveco, I have a normal 3.5 ton Transit & it runs at near gvw most of the time, also towing for about 50% of the time. I bought it new & I do wish I'd spec'd a different rear axle ratio as I hadn't planned for towing quite so much. The 4.3's in dual rear wheel configuration come with lower gearing. With the huge rear overhang you need the highest capacity to avoid overloading the rear axle, remember that most people who want this sized van only want the volume not the weight capability.
The hard bit will be the towing weight... Only Heavy Duty vans tend to have a train weight over 5.5ton... most vans are 2 ton train weight unless specced to tow,.. had a brand new Merc Sprinter LWB the other week, 5.5t GTM so it makes a used choice quite difficult.
FYI by the letter of the law he still needs to run a Tachograph if towing commercially beyond a 62miles from home but doesnt need a Operators Licence so long as its his own equipment for work he's moving
FYI by the letter of the law he still needs to run a Tachograph if towing commercially beyond a 62miles from home but doesnt need a Operators Licence so long as its his own equipment for work he's moving
Edited by Ex X Power on Thursday 5th September 18:16
My money would be going on the best Iveco you could find.
DRW - I think they handle weight better and make the vehicle look less loaded, much more stable too IMO, especially when towing.
As mentioned the Iveco are basically 5t trucks downplated. The engines are strong and the 3.0 particularly is fantastic. Watch out though for sloppy gear linkages, as it’s an expensive fix.
DRW - I think they handle weight better and make the vehicle look less loaded, much more stable too IMO, especially when towing.
As mentioned the Iveco are basically 5t trucks downplated. The engines are strong and the 3.0 particularly is fantastic. Watch out though for sloppy gear linkages, as it’s an expensive fix.
MattCharlton91 said:
My money would be going on the best Iveco you could find.
DRW - I think they handle weight better and make the vehicle look less loaded, much more stable too IMO, especially when towing.
As mentioned the Iveco are basically 5t trucks downplated. The engines are strong and the 3.0 particularly is fantastic. Watch out though for sloppy gear linkages, as it’s an expensive fix.
I wouldn’t.DRW - I think they handle weight better and make the vehicle look less loaded, much more stable too IMO, especially when towing.
As mentioned the Iveco are basically 5t trucks downplated. The engines are strong and the 3.0 particularly is fantastic. Watch out though for sloppy gear linkages, as it’s an expensive fix.
Most Ivecos have the Fiat 2.3 multijet so not really an Iveco. And Ivecos have a ladder chassis and xlwb models only have a 900kg payload yes 900kg.
His budget is £6k - most cost effective van New is the Boxer Relay L3 and it also is as a late used buy. 3.7m load length 1.85m wide and official payload of 1550kg... let’s say 1400 and change. Or go for an l4 3.95m load length or 4m with no bulk head and genuine 1250kg payload.
Hide the weight well and excellent spec ie air con cruise Nav -air con is hard to find in certain vans.
Hey folks
So yeah, he's bought a mk7 2.2L Transit Jumbo, ended up just going with a SRW, availability of the shelving & other accessories he wanted where best on the transit, he's also re-assessing his tool box setup a bit to save weight (retaining 1 smaller metal box with some wooden cupboards for bulkier tools, rather than 2 metal boxes).
One he's got looks pretty good, in white (of course), Not sure what it was before, miles are a bit low for a courier van (160k 7 years old), but interior is way too clean for a builders van, doesn't have the stereotypical crosseyed tracking & knackered tyres of a multidrop van. Regardless, looks a good bit of kit 5750 GTW, about 250kg short of what he was wanting, but it'll do the job.
So yeah, he's bought a mk7 2.2L Transit Jumbo, ended up just going with a SRW, availability of the shelving & other accessories he wanted where best on the transit, he's also re-assessing his tool box setup a bit to save weight (retaining 1 smaller metal box with some wooden cupboards for bulkier tools, rather than 2 metal boxes).
One he's got looks pretty good, in white (of course), Not sure what it was before, miles are a bit low for a courier van (160k 7 years old), but interior is way too clean for a builders van, doesn't have the stereotypical crosseyed tracking & knackered tyres of a multidrop van. Regardless, looks a good bit of kit 5750 GTW, about 250kg short of what he was wanting, but it'll do the job.
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