7.5t lorries and possibilities of young driver.
Discussion
I am a small paving company with 2x 3.5t tippers. I would really like to change these for 7.5t lorries for various reasons.
I don't have a licence and neither does an employee so we would both have to do it, which is fine. Only issue is he's 19. I am currently insured for any driver with no age restrictions for a very reasonable amount of just over 2k with aviva. Is this going to be a case of triple that?
Will i get laughed at for trying to insure a 19yr old? He's a really good lad, i know it doesn't work like this but i wouldn't have him driving my trucks if i didn't think he was sensible, im just not sure the insurers see it that way.
I am almost a bit stuck, i need to do the licenses, get the trucks, sort somewhere to keep them, sort the o licence and sort insurance.
Im not sure calling insurers for valid quotes is even possible until we have the licences, of which there's no point getting if its going to costs thousands a year.
How do i proceed?
I don't have a licence and neither does an employee so we would both have to do it, which is fine. Only issue is he's 19. I am currently insured for any driver with no age restrictions for a very reasonable amount of just over 2k with aviva. Is this going to be a case of triple that?
Will i get laughed at for trying to insure a 19yr old? He's a really good lad, i know it doesn't work like this but i wouldn't have him driving my trucks if i didn't think he was sensible, im just not sure the insurers see it that way.
I am almost a bit stuck, i need to do the licenses, get the trucks, sort somewhere to keep them, sort the o licence and sort insurance.
Im not sure calling insurers for valid quotes is even possible until we have the licences, of which there's no point getting if its going to costs thousands a year.
How do i proceed?
Im in a similar boat, although Im currently a sole trader.
I run a xlwb transit dropside, gross 3.5t. Its ALWAYS overweight. Carrying the bare minimum tools/generator, I have a usable payload of around 850kg. Which in the fencing industry doesn't go far at all.
I have the same group of questions really to run a 7.5t. Would I need an O-license? Do I need a tacho? Can I keep it on my driveway? etc
I run a xlwb transit dropside, gross 3.5t. Its ALWAYS overweight. Carrying the bare minimum tools/generator, I have a usable payload of around 850kg. Which in the fencing industry doesn't go far at all.
I have the same group of questions really to run a 7.5t. Would I need an O-license? Do I need a tacho? Can I keep it on my driveway? etc
MattCharlton91 said:
Im in a similar boat, although Im currently a sole trader.
I run a xlwb transit dropside, gross 3.5t. Its ALWAYS overweight. Carrying the bare minimum tools/generator, I have a usable payload of around 850kg. Which in the fencing industry doesn't go far at all.
I have the same group of questions really to run a 7.5t. Would I need an O-license? Do I need a tacho? Can I keep it on my driveway? etc
Its frustrating because i want to abide by the law but with pathetic payloads and being squeezed on prices when some 'companies' out there bend every rule going it makes it very very hard.I run a xlwb transit dropside, gross 3.5t. Its ALWAYS overweight. Carrying the bare minimum tools/generator, I have a usable payload of around 850kg. Which in the fencing industry doesn't go far at all.
I have the same group of questions really to run a 7.5t. Would I need an O-license? Do I need a tacho? Can I keep it on my driveway? etc
Each individual aspect of getting 7.5t on the road is no issue but when you combine them all it sort of leaves me thinking wtf! where do i even start?
With regard to your questions i wouldn't put my life on the answers ill give but i think I'm right:
o licence: restricted
tacho : no
both of above to do with operating within x miles of base and transporting own goods to own jobs.
keep on drive: grey area from what i gather, i have been told yes and no, tbh in my case i already keep a 3.5t canter on my drive and a 7.5t basically looks the same.....
The trucks themselves are cheap, id be looking at canters, i have the 3.5t as they are great. the 7.5 has a payload of 4t!
In any case i spoke to a couple of brokers who said the 19yr old would be virtually impossible to insure, one did say i could do it by having a fleet policy but id pay through the nose.
Not sure what to do tbh at the moment.
In any case i spoke to a couple of brokers who said the 19yr old would be virtually impossible to insure, one did say i could do it by having a fleet policy but id pay through the nose.
Not sure what to do tbh at the moment.
m3jappa said:
The trucks themselves are cheap, id be looking at canters, i have the 3.5t as they are great. the 7.5 has a payload of 4t!
In any case i spoke to a couple of brokers who said the 19yr old would be virtually impossible to insure, one did say i could do it by having a fleet policy but id pay through the nose.
Not sure what to do tbh at the moment.
Is towing a trailer behind the existing vehicle an option?In any case i spoke to a couple of brokers who said the 19yr old would be virtually impossible to insure, one did say i could do it by having a fleet policy but id pay through the nose.
Not sure what to do tbh at the moment.
R0G said:
Also exempt from driver cpc
If you do go for the LGV test then consider doing C not C1 as the cost difference is negligible and the test itself is exactly the same
What ever you do, do this ^If you do go for the LGV test then consider doing C not C1 as the cost difference is negligible and the test itself is exactly the same
I did my C licence last year and it wasn't too difficult, 40 minute drive and a joke of a reversing manouver. As you're used to driving big vehicles already it should be a doddle.
sunbeam alpine said:
Is towing a trailer behind the existing vehicle an option?
Believe it or not i actually think its more dangerous than being overloaded! I have got an ifor williams with payload of 2t. With nothing on the back of the pulling van it genuinely doesn't feel that safe, braking is no where near as good, handling is wafty and its just cumbersome being that long iykwim.
2t on the canter is well over but it handles, brakes and drives fine...... Technically i could legally have 1.3t on the back of the van and tow a trailer with 2.6t on it! wtf
i don't even think it would move haha (or stop) I also did my trailer licence and was pissed off that it was nothing more than a driving test. yes they showed me how to manoeuvre etc but they showed me nothing about securing loads, nothing about handling or braking. it basically felt like i was having a grand extracted for no reason. The trailer could be towed legally by anyone with no weight on it, its the weight which means you need a test, yet the effects of weight weren't even mentioned....
m3jappa said:
sunbeam alpine said:
Is towing a trailer behind the existing vehicle an option?
Believe it or not i actually think its more dangerous than being overloaded! I have got an ifor williams with payload of 2t. With nothing on the back of the pulling van it genuinely doesn't feel that safe, braking is no where near as good, handling is wafty and its just cumbersome being that long iykwim.
2t on the canter is well over but it handles, brakes and drives fine...... Technically i could legally have 1.3t on the back of the van and tow a trailer with 2.6t on it! wtf
i don't even think it would move haha (or stop) I also did my trailer licence and was pissed off that it was nothing more than a driving test. yes they showed me how to manoeuvre etc but they showed me nothing about securing loads, nothing about handling or braking. it basically felt like i was having a grand extracted for no reason. The trailer could be towed legally by anyone with no weight on it, its the weight which means you need a test, yet the effects of weight weren't even mentioned....
I also have Ifor Williams trailers - they are usually towed by Fiat Ducato vans (2.3 JTD max 3.5t). The Ducato can tow up to 2.8t and I honestly don't feel the trailer once it's moving. It is a bit slower accelerating, but when braking, the trailer will stop the van!
It can be a lot to get your head around with O-licences and CPCs etc but there is quite a lot of useful information and guidance to be had from reputable websites or even companies that will help you apply for a licence and maintain it. If you're a member of the RHA or similar they can provide framework/guidance for various things too.
a 7.5ton tipper ,will weigh 5 plus tons , they carry roughly 2 ton, not a huge amount more than a 3.5t. Think the o licence is the difficult part, if you can get restricted then you don't need to employ a transport manager {yes a cpc manager for one truck they are about £500 a month upwards}, but the dvsa don't like trucks on restricted and will give you a hard time.
And there is all the other regs that make running anything over 3.5t a costly exercise, 6 weekly checks ,£7k in bank in any 3 month period to prove you can maintain the truck, some where to park it as you can,t park it outside your house!
And there is all the other regs that make running anything over 3.5t a costly exercise, 6 weekly checks ,£7k in bank in any 3 month period to prove you can maintain the truck, some where to park it as you can,t park it outside your house!
Unless you buy a 7.5 truck made out of pig iron you should easily have >3000kg load capacity. Even an insulated tipper will be about 4000kg empty. Something with a light weight alloy body closer to 3200kg.
Personally I like MAN 8 series 7.5 tonners. Very reliable and plenty of power, good brakes and decent cab (same as an ME 26t). You could pick up an 04-05 8.155 for not a lot of money, a nice one for £5k. I sold one not so long ago, shame would have probably been perfect for you.
You are going to need some legal things though.
Obviously correct DL. Anyone under 21 years old MUST complete the Driver CPC and then take an additional CPC examination of around 40 CPC based questions. So your 19 year old will have to take their CPC. I would not bother with C1 just do C. Also be aware that driving something at 3.5t is very different to driving 7.5t. You need to be aware of braking distances, acceleration time, blind spots, etc etc. Vans are like big cars. 7.5 tonne trucks are like small big trucks... IYSWIM..
Operators licence. Quite complicated so I am not going into detail but if you carry goods for anyone else you are going to require a national OL. If its your own goods then restricted, but be aware you will still need to comply with a lot of requirements. You are going to need a service contract with a local dealer from the sounds of it. Budget £2-3k a year for service, brake tests, bits and bobs and MOT as a starting point. These are not cheap vehicles and whilst "reliable" in their own right they are way, way more complex than vans and a lot of car tech like metal coatings etc are used on vans now but the LGV world is still stuck in the 1980s. I would select a good size dealer but avoid main dealers due to costs. Don't underestimate repair costs, some things are cheap - really cheap in fact, other small items might set you back £££ so something small can add up quickly. Its unusual for any of our trucks to come out of the shop with a bill of less than a grand.
Insurance. LGV insurance has gone through the roof the last 5 years. On any driver I think you will be lucky to pay under £1500. With no no claims and no history, I think it would be twice that to start with.
Be careful with the tacho rules. Stick to your exemption and you will be ok but if you stray they will come down on you very hard.
Lastly, if you operate any where that is planning to introduce a Low Emissions Zone then think long and hard. Its likely to hit 7.5 tonners hardest IMHO due to payload capacity vs daily charge.
Personally I like MAN 8 series 7.5 tonners. Very reliable and plenty of power, good brakes and decent cab (same as an ME 26t). You could pick up an 04-05 8.155 for not a lot of money, a nice one for £5k. I sold one not so long ago, shame would have probably been perfect for you.
You are going to need some legal things though.
Obviously correct DL. Anyone under 21 years old MUST complete the Driver CPC and then take an additional CPC examination of around 40 CPC based questions. So your 19 year old will have to take their CPC. I would not bother with C1 just do C. Also be aware that driving something at 3.5t is very different to driving 7.5t. You need to be aware of braking distances, acceleration time, blind spots, etc etc. Vans are like big cars. 7.5 tonne trucks are like small big trucks... IYSWIM..
Operators licence. Quite complicated so I am not going into detail but if you carry goods for anyone else you are going to require a national OL. If its your own goods then restricted, but be aware you will still need to comply with a lot of requirements. You are going to need a service contract with a local dealer from the sounds of it. Budget £2-3k a year for service, brake tests, bits and bobs and MOT as a starting point. These are not cheap vehicles and whilst "reliable" in their own right they are way, way more complex than vans and a lot of car tech like metal coatings etc are used on vans now but the LGV world is still stuck in the 1980s. I would select a good size dealer but avoid main dealers due to costs. Don't underestimate repair costs, some things are cheap - really cheap in fact, other small items might set you back £££ so something small can add up quickly. Its unusual for any of our trucks to come out of the shop with a bill of less than a grand.
Insurance. LGV insurance has gone through the roof the last 5 years. On any driver I think you will be lucky to pay under £1500. With no no claims and no history, I think it would be twice that to start with.
Be careful with the tacho rules. Stick to your exemption and you will be ok but if you stray they will come down on you very hard.
Lastly, if you operate any where that is planning to introduce a Low Emissions Zone then think long and hard. Its likely to hit 7.5 tonners hardest IMHO due to payload capacity vs daily charge.
red_slr said:
Unless you buy a 7.5 truck made out of pig iron you should easily have >3000kg load capacity. Even an insulated tipper will be about 4000kg empty. Something with a light weight alloy body closer to 3200kg.
Personally I like MAN 8 series 7.5 tonners. Very reliable and plenty of power, good brakes and decent cab (same as an ME 26t). You could pick up an 04-05 8.155 for not a lot of money, a nice one for £5k. I sold one not so long ago, shame would have probably been perfect for you.
You are going to need some legal things though.
Obviously correct DL. Anyone under 21 years old MUST complete the Driver CPC and then take an additional CPC examination of around 40 CPC based questions. So your 19 year old will have to take their CPC. I would not bother with C1 just do C. Also be aware that driving something at 3.5t is very different to driving 7.5t. You need to be aware of braking distances, acceleration time, blind spots, etc etc. Vans are like big cars. 7.5 tonne trucks are like small big trucks... IYSWIM..
Operators licence. Quite complicated so I am not going into detail but if you carry goods for anyone else you are going to require a national OL. If its your own goods then restricted, but be aware you will still need to comply with a lot of requirements. You are going to need a service contract with a local dealer from the sounds of it. Budget £2-3k a year for service, brake tests, bits and bobs and MOT as a starting point. These are not cheap vehicles and whilst "reliable" in their own right they are way, way more complex than vans and a lot of car tech like metal coatings etc are used on vans now but the LGV world is still stuck in the 1980s. I would select a good size dealer but avoid main dealers due to costs. Don't underestimate repair costs, some things are cheap - really cheap in fact, other small items might set you back £££ so something small can add up quickly. Its unusual for any of our trucks to come out of the shop with a bill of less than a grand.
Insurance. LGV insurance has gone through the roof the last 5 years. On any driver I think you will be lucky to pay under £1500. With no no claims and no history, I think it would be twice that to start with.
Be careful with the tacho rules. Stick to your exemption and you will be ok but if you stray they will come down on you very hard.
Lastly, if you operate any where that is planning to introduce a Low Emissions Zone then think long and hard. Its likely to hit 7.5 tonners hardest IMHO due to payload capacity vs daily charge.
I agree with most of what you have said except the load weights . To get the 3000kg on anything with a body on it you would be looking at an Isuzu, I wouldn't touch one of them and your driver certainly wouldn't thank you especially if they are over 5 10 .Personally I like MAN 8 series 7.5 tonners. Very reliable and plenty of power, good brakes and decent cab (same as an ME 26t). You could pick up an 04-05 8.155 for not a lot of money, a nice one for £5k. I sold one not so long ago, shame would have probably been perfect for you.
You are going to need some legal things though.
Obviously correct DL. Anyone under 21 years old MUST complete the Driver CPC and then take an additional CPC examination of around 40 CPC based questions. So your 19 year old will have to take their CPC. I would not bother with C1 just do C. Also be aware that driving something at 3.5t is very different to driving 7.5t. You need to be aware of braking distances, acceleration time, blind spots, etc etc. Vans are like big cars. 7.5 tonne trucks are like small big trucks... IYSWIM..
Operators licence. Quite complicated so I am not going into detail but if you carry goods for anyone else you are going to require a national OL. If its your own goods then restricted, but be aware you will still need to comply with a lot of requirements. You are going to need a service contract with a local dealer from the sounds of it. Budget £2-3k a year for service, brake tests, bits and bobs and MOT as a starting point. These are not cheap vehicles and whilst "reliable" in their own right they are way, way more complex than vans and a lot of car tech like metal coatings etc are used on vans now but the LGV world is still stuck in the 1980s. I would select a good size dealer but avoid main dealers due to costs. Don't underestimate repair costs, some things are cheap - really cheap in fact, other small items might set you back £££ so something small can add up quickly. Its unusual for any of our trucks to come out of the shop with a bill of less than a grand.
Insurance. LGV insurance has gone through the roof the last 5 years. On any driver I think you will be lucky to pay under £1500. With no no claims and no history, I think it would be twice that to start with.
Be careful with the tacho rules. Stick to your exemption and you will be ok but if you stray they will come down on you very hard.
Lastly, if you operate any where that is planning to introduce a Low Emissions Zone then think long and hard. Its likely to hit 7.5 tonners hardest IMHO due to payload capacity vs daily charge.
They have a very poor reputation in the trade , more time in the service bay than on the road is often quoted .
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