Adblue issues, it can't be right.

[Reltub]

I've had a truck since new and it went into the dealer twice under warranty for adblue problems in the first two years. (superseded parts were fitted both times) All well for a while then we have spent over £5000 with various visits to the dealer on the adblue system and it is still going into limp mode. This is over roughly a twelve month period.

I'm not shocked that there are a lot of company's offering to fix this "illegally" when I have been pulling my hair out for so long.

There is a lot of press saying operators are using these company's just to save on adblue and that they do not care about the environment which may be the case with some. I just want the truck on the road not parked in dealerships yard.

Where is the press about the dealers who cannot fix these systems and the manufacturers who can not design a reliable system?

Rant over. Anyone had similar?

[fttm]

I've had similar issues with both Kenworth and Volvo , but it seems all trucks with Adblue(DEF) suffer , mainly sensor and doser issues . It freezes at minus 11c which is useful in Canada for 6 months every year .
Early 2014-16 trucks were the worst here , the dealers and fitters were just guessing at faults more often than not , but from 17 onwards reliability has improved , though still not to the level it should be considering the price of new trucks nowadays .

[StevenB]

Same on coaches, Iveco were the worst, would go into limp for a couple of hours while out, then be ok. dealer had no idea how to fix the problem and most of the time just deleted the codes and said see if it happens again, which of course it does. we had 10 of them, all had the problems with the adblue system from new, never resolved. sold the vehicles as soon as we could.We have found Mercedes and Daf have been the most reliable. "touches wood"

Just to add, always at our cost in terms of they have the vehicles to try and fix them for extended periods,

Edited by StevenB on Tuesday 20th March 15:43

[grumpy52]

There are long running discussions on every trucking site about Adblu problems and not one of them has had a favourable outcome found by a main dealer .
There does seem to be a few that can reprogram the trucks and get them running far better , non seem to be totally legal .
DVSA seem to have changed the rules if you get caught running with bypass systems , 10 days to fix it and get a minor slap or don't fix it and get butt fun .

[Reltub]

Thanks for the reply’s. DVSA are right to clamp down on it but I think the manufacturers should take responsibility for inferior systems that they may have been forced to rush design/fit to trucks. If they are getting better then that tells me the early systems are not fit for purpose.

We have three trucks less than four years old and they have all had warranty work done, all adblue related. £5000 to fit parts that may have not been needed is hard to swallow and we still need to keep spending, what else can you do?

Maybe long term changing supplier is the only thing to do.

There seems to be a lot of chat regarding contamination, surely the systems should self protect somehow. Our older trucks have filters, but the new ones don’t. Maybe contamination is just an easy way to pass the buck.

[Jumpingjackflash]

Hello

I have an Optare solo with the Mercedes M904 engine. I have adblue problems. The light has been on for three months but the vehicle has not de-rated. I am getting the Doser pump reconditioned. However is it true I need to take it back to dealer for a special code to reset emissions light?

[Reltub]

Another £500 on a Nox sensor, fingers crossed. The engineer said if it’s not that then he would fit a cat at £2500. That would be £8000 total! Seems crazy to me. Also it’s possible the the adblue is the problem. If this was the case would not all our trucks have issues all the time?

[StevenB]

Reltub said:

Another £500 on a Nox sensor, fingers crossed. The engineer said if it’s not that then he would fit a cat at £2500. That would be £8000 total! Seems crazy to me. Also it’s possible the the adblue is the problem. If this was the case would not all our trucks have issues all the time?

You would expect the other vehicles to have the problem if the adblue was at fault. it sounds like they are guessing at the problem at your expence.

On the point made about contamination, could a driver have put the wrong thing in the tank ? we once had a driver put power steering fluid in there...

[Reltub]

Jumpingjackflash said:

Hello

I have an Optare solo with the Mercedes M904 engine. I have adblue problems. The light has been on for three months but the vehicle has not de-rated. I am getting the Doser pump reconditioned. However is it true I need to take it back to dealer for a special code to reset emissions light?

If our light comes on it does need plugging in to reset/clear it once it has been repaired.

I'm sure there is only adblue in the tank. When we have drained it, it looks fresh and clear. Our trucks return to site every day and we only use an IBC with a nozzle to fill the tanks.

We have had two dealers and two independents look at this truck and they all seem to say the same thing. Maybe this is the only way, fitting parts and praying. Because the diagnostics only tell you that the emissions are not right and many different parts can cause this, we can only follow this route.

It would be good if you could remove parts and fully test them rather than just replacing them.

[fttm]

Yesterday , "parked regen request within 60 mins" , I do that but halfway though another message "poor def quality your truck will derate to 8 kph in<180 mins" , great . Call Volvo who's helpful answer is "get yourself to a dealer asap" which was 2 hrs away . Set off prepared for a breakdown at any moment then all the warning messages were gone . Made it home and the truck was fine today , is due a service and safety tomorrow so will get it checked out , bloody sensors no doubt .

[Venisonpie]

One thing to consider with ad blue is how quickly you use it. If it's left for too long it can crystalise which may lead to issues once in the system.
I'm not for a moment saying this is definitely the problem just something to bear in mind.

[StevenB]

Reltub said:

We have had two dealers and two independents look at this truck and they all seem to say the same thing. Maybe this is the only way, fitting parts and praying. Because the diagnostics only tell you that the emissions are not right and many different parts can cause this, we can only follow this route.

It would be good if you could remove parts and fully test them rather than just replacing them.

This is the problem, they don't know what is wrong so guess at what part is causing the problem, if it's not that you are still charged for that part. even though it has been proved your part is working as it should.

warranty repairs are even worse for time of the road dealers have to follow a set test order, other wise they won't get paid. They link the vehicle to say Sweden for Volvo and they look at it on line then advise what to check, so lots of back and forth, waiting for techs to be available, Volvo Sweden to look again when it hasn't cured the problem. We had one coach spend about 2 weeks at the dealer for an adblue issue when it came back light was on again within 24hrs took another 2 visits to fix it (2015 Vehicle)

[Reltub]

The light and de-rate came back on yesterday, great. So not the Nox sensor. I’m waiting for a local guy to plug in and check the codes before fitting a cat.

In the press today another company boss lost repute and was banned from holding an O licence because of emulators. It also said one in twelve trucks pulled over had emulators fitted.

I’ve looked online for people or equipment for testing all the adblue parts but can’t find anything. If you could test the pump, injector and sensors then that would save wasting money on parts that are not needed. If one in twelve is correct then there could be a massive market for repairers to have such equipment, assuming they are fitted due to faults.

It would also help reduce the downtime we have experienced. At least five times we have had-
Limp mode
Drop at dealer, two men for two hours
Sits in dealer for four days+
Fitted part (starting with the cheapest) and cleared fault
Pick up, two men two hours
One week later, Limp mode and repeat.

I think the only reason no such service exists is because the people repairing are not paying. Maybe!

[StevenB]

Maybe these chaps could help with checking / refurb. ...

https://www.allianceelectronics.co.uk/3/2/site-sea...

[Reltub]

StevenB said:

Maybe these chaps could help with checking / refurb. ...

https://www.allianceelectronics.co.uk/3/2/site-sea...

Thanks for that link. Next time a truck starts to fault maybe we should take all the parts they can do and send the lot for testing. I wonder if they would test for a fee rather than just refurbing.

[Willy Nilly]

fttm said:

I've had similar issues with both Kenworth and Volvo , but it seems all trucks with Adblue(DEF) suffer , mainly sensor and doser issues . It freezes at minus 11c which is useful in Canada for 6 months every year .

The DEF system sucks the fluid back into the tank when the engine is switched off to prevent it splitting the plumbing and the tank as eough spare room to let it expand. The tank has hoses from the engine colling system to thaw out the DEF and while this is happening the engine know about i and will no require any dosing. The British Antarctic Survey use machines with DEF, so i should work in the cold.

Venisonpie said:

One thing to consider with ad blue is how quickly you use it. If it's left for too long it can crystalise which may lead to issues once in the system.
I'm not for a moment saying this is definitely the problem just something to bear in mind.

The shelf life of DEF is well over 18 months. It doesn't care if it's been frozen and thawed out. The IBC's are all sealed up anyway. Do sure how it can crystalize while still in solution and in any case the crystals just desolve

IIRC, in the USA the emission control systems have a much longer warranty on them by law

[Jumpingjackflash]

Reltub said:

If our light comes on it does need plugging in to reset/clear it once it has been repaired.

I'm sure there is only adblue in the tank. When we have drained it, it looks fresh and clear. Our trucks return to site every day and we only use an IBC with a nozzle to fill the tanks.

We have had two dealers and two independents look at this truck and they all seem to say the same thing. Maybe this is the only way, fitting parts and praying. Because the diagnostics only tell you that the emissions are not right and many different parts can cause this, we can only follow this route.

It would be good if you could remove parts and fully test them rather than just replacing them.

I changed the Dosing Pump and took the bus a long run. Light went out and stayed out.

[Reltub]

I’ve fitted a cat over ten days ago and the light has stayed off for the longest time since the problem started. The cat was 2k in the end and Renault have since had a 50% off cats offer so theirs is around 2k also. £7500 in now and that is with us fitting the Nox sensor, injector and the cat. Hopefully we get some work done now. After at least four Renault trained techs looked at this it seems the only way to solve it was to fit parts starting with the cheapest and pray.