What advantage did the Scania T cab offer over the R cab?

[caelite]

Was chit chatting with a few drivers in work today, we where discussing a company down the roads latest purchase, an old Scania T500 tag lift. Truely a rare sight in the UK, we believe there intention is to convert it into a show truck (they currently have a chromed up R560 they take to truckfest Scotland & others I think). Anywho we got chatting about the actual usability of such a truck and honestly couldn't think of a single advantage to the T cab (which may explain why its no longer made ).

Genuinely curious if anyone on here knows what they where primarily used for, probably slightly embarrassing but nobody present for the discussion was old enough to hold a licence in 2005 when they discontinued the truck so we may have been missing something . The only one I could see was maybe less 'tag-bounce' from sitting nearer the centre of the chassis, also the cab seems to sit slightly lower so potentially better blind spot visibility. (like a P cab)

[Super Slo Mo]

I don't think there was an advantage other than style. It had to pull a shorter trailer in order to meet maximum length regulations.

[PowerslideSWE]

Having driven both I can say that the T-cab offers no advantage over a cab-over design at all. Comfort is worse, visibility is worse. And they look silly

Had a pimped out Volvo Nh12 as a work truck for a few months last year and was always hoping that no-one would recognize me driving that PoS

[martin mrt]

I've driven a few T cabs over the years, my current employer has 3 of them, all double drive on all steel suspension they are not a comfortable ride. Anyone unfamiliar to a manual T cab will have fun finding gears on a cold morning, there's literally next to zero side to side movement on the gearstick so finding the correct cog can be daunting. Bonnets rattle unless the catches are 100% all 3 of ours have rattling bonnet catches

The longer wheelbase of the tractor unit offers far more stability over a regular conventional unit, as such off road work such as forest product removal they are excellent, one of ours was "in the woods" for most of its 12 years before we purchased it and it has lead a very very hard life. Tanker operators liked them also due to the increased stability offered. The cabs were more roomy too, much more than a regular 4 series R cab as they have a totally flat floor. Inside a top line T cab is huge.

My mate has a converted T cab, built by Vlastuin in Holland, based on a 2008 R series (they take a regular conventional unit, move the cab back and fit the Torpedo bonnet) I've made it sound rather crass but it's converted to such a high standard the only giveaway that it didn't come from the factory as a T cab is the hump on the floor (all T cabs have flat floors)
That particular one is by far the best truck I've ever driven, no creaks, bangs, rattles, it's comfortable (anyone that thinks a 105 is comfy should try this its in another league) I am a huge huge fan of it.

They are a great purchase and the original ones are vastly increasing in value at the moment, the converted ones I can see going up in value once 4/R series production stops in 2017

[All that jazz]

martin mrt said:

I've driven a few T cabs over the years, my current employer has 3 of them, all double drive on all steel suspension they are not a comfortable ride. Anyone unfamiliar to a manual T cab will have fun finding gears on a cold morning, there's literally next to zero side to side movement on the gearstick so finding the correct cog can be daunting.

It's a standard 3 over 3 gate with splits. What's so daunting about it? The only issue with that manual box was if you tried to rush changing from high to low box or vv. it would put you in no mans land. The gears were notoriously notchy when cold but that was no different to the manual DAFs or Volvos of that era.

[martin mrt]

All that jazz said:

martin mrt said:

I've driven a few T cabs over the years, my current employer has 3 of them, all double drive on all steel suspension they are not a comfortable ride. Anyone unfamiliar to a manual T cab will have fun finding gears on a cold morning, there's literally next to zero side to side movement on the gearstick so finding the correct cog can be daunting.

It's a standard 3 over 3 gate with splits. What's so daunting about it? The only issue with that manual box was if you tried to rush changing from high to low box or vv. it would put you in no mans land. The gears were notoriously notchy when cold but that was no different to the manual DAFs or Volvos of that era.

You've obviously not driven one, trying to distinguish 3rd and 4th when cold often sees you ending up in 6th

I had one of ours for a fortnight and first two days it happened each morning. There's no long linkages as such on the Tcab to give the lever the same side to side movement that you get in a regular 4 series.

All 3 of ours are the same, and with 2 of them having stacks, missed or wrong gears can be heard from the next street.

[All that jazz]

martin mrt said:

You've obviously not driven one, trying to distinguish 3rd and 4th when cold often sees you ending up in 6th

I had one of ours for a fortnight and first two days it happened each morning. There's no long linkages as such on the Tcab to give the lever the same side to side movement that you get in a regular 4 series.

All 3 of ours are the same, and with 2 of them having stacks, missed or wrong gears can be heard from the next street.

I have done roughly 50k in a T144 pulling a road planer so I think I am qualified to comment! As I agreed in my post, yes they can be notchy when cold and trying to rush the stick into the gates will often bite back, but with some nursing and patience they are perfectly workable. The linkages would probably be longer than a standard 4 series because the engine and transmission is all in front of you under the bonnet rather than directly underneath the stick. There is a different feel to the box from that on a cab-over 4 series but I personally didn't find it to be a problem, other than the occasional no-mans land incidents when changing from 3rd to 4th too rapidly. It sounds like yours might have excessive wear on them, especially as you've mentioned they've all had a hard life ex forestry. 4th and 6th gates never caused me any issues.

Personally I was never a lover of them. The one I drove was a streamline double drive on steel and the ride was really crashy (worse than other units on steel). It was also a pain in the arse trying to make tight junctions.

[martin mrt]

All that jazz said:

martin mrt said:

You've obviously not driven one, trying to distinguish 3rd and 4th when cold often sees you ending up in 6th

I had one of ours for a fortnight and first two days it happened each morning. There's no long linkages as such on the Tcab to give the lever the same side to side movement that you get in a regular 4 series.

All 3 of ours are the same, and with 2 of them having stacks, missed or wrong gears can be heard from the next street.

I have done roughly 50k in a T144 pulling a road planer so I think I am qualified to comment! As I agreed in my post, yes they can be notchy when cold and trying to rush the stick into the gates will often bite back, but with some nursing and patience they are perfectly workable. The linkages would probably be longer than a standard 4 series because the engine and transmission is all in front of you under the bonnet rather than directly underneath the stick. There is a different feel to the box from that on a cab-over 4 series but I personally didn't find it to be a problem, other than the occasional no-mans land incidents when changing from 3rd to 4th too rapidly. It sounds like yours might have excessive wear on them, especially as you've mentioned they've all had a hard life ex forestry. 4th and 6th gates never caused me any issues.

Personally I was never a lover of them. The one I drove was a streamline double drive on steel and the ride was really crashy (worse than other units on steel). It was also a pain in the arse trying to make tight junctions.

The transmission is directly under the gearstick/cab hence the lack of a complex linkage. The last two cylinders on a V8 live roughly where the radiator would in the bulkhead if it were a regular R/4 series

Only one of ours was ex forestry, a 164 580, one is a 124 420 with a genuine 200k kms from new, and the other a 144 460 sitting at roughly 900k kms ironically the 164 has the best change of the 3, and the 124 the tightest, which is unsurprising given the miles.

Streamline 144??? There never was such a thing..............

I like ours, none are comfortable, favourite is the 164, however my mates "converted" one is in a different league

[All that jazz]

martin mrt said:

The transmission is directly under the gearstick/cab hence the lack of a complex linkage. The last two cylinders on a V8 live roughly where the radiator would in the bulkhead if it were a regular R/4 series

Only one of ours was ex forestry, a 164 580, one is a 124 420 with a genuine 200k kms from new, and the other a 144 460 sitting at roughly 900k kms ironically the 164 has the best change of the 3, and the 124 the tightest, which is unsurprising given the miles.

Streamline 144??? There never was such a thing..............

I like ours, none are comfortable, favourite is the 164, however my mates "converted" one is in a different league

Streamline CAB height, ie. not a Topliner T cab. Not the 3 series. You are talking about the 4 series and not the R series, right?

Mine was identical spec to this, but a 460 in yellow and without all the spots : https://flic.kr/p/e157oe

Edit: in fact the cab was a bit taller than that, I think that's the flat roof spec. There was definitely a Streamline T cab 4 series. I'll see if I can find a pic. Here's one - a rather odd looking thing : https://flic.kr/p/pUHTrm. Hmm I don't remember mine being that tall, maybe it was the flat roof one after all. I've got some pics of it on my old PC but it's in the back of a cupboard and I'm not digging it out just to prove a point.

Edited by All that jazz on Wednesday 4th January 20:26

[martin mrt]

All that jazz said:

martin mrt said:

The transmission is directly under the gearstick/cab hence the lack of a complex linkage. The last two cylinders on a V8 live roughly where the radiator would in the bulkhead if it were a regular R/4 series

Only one of ours was ex forestry, a 164 580, one is a 124 420 with a genuine 200k kms from new, and the other a 144 460 sitting at roughly 900k kms ironically the 164 has the best change of the 3, and the 124 the tightest, which is unsurprising given the miles.

Streamline 144??? There never was such a thing..............

I like ours, none are comfortable, favourite is the 164, however my mates "converted" one is in a different league

Streamline CAB height, ie. not a Topliner T cab. Not the 3 series. You are talking about the 4 series and not the R series, right?

Mine was identical spec to this, but a 460 in yellow and without all the spots : https://flic.kr/p/e157oe

Edit: in fact the cab was a bit taller than that, I think that's the flat roof spec. There was definitely a Streamline T cab 4 series. I'll see if I can find a pic. Here's one - a rather odd looking thing : https://flic.kr/p/pUHTrm. Hmm I don't remember mine being that tall, maybe it was the flat roof one after all. I've got some pics of it on my old PC but it's in the back of a cupboard and I'm not digging it out just to prove a point.

Edited by All that jazz on Wednesday 4th January 20:26

Yeah I was referring to the 4 series

Ahh I'm sure they are just called flat roofs, the streamline name did make a reappearance on the R series but that was due to different aerodynamics to front grille etc, similar but not as striking differences as it was on the 3 series

That green one has had an R series Highline roof grafted on, they came in between the flat roof and a topline and were IMO a fantastic compromise. Sadly the T cab was never available as a highline from the factory.

Edited by martin mrt on Wednesday 4th January 20:48