18 tonne lorry or 2 x 3.5 tonne vans

18 tonne lorry or 2 x 3.5 tonne vans

Author
Discussion

colinrob

Original Poster:

1,199 posts

258 months

Friday 24th June 2016
quotequote all
Looking at comparing the cost of running 2 vans or an 18 tonne lorry

If I get an 18 tonne lorry it will be used to make 2 trips to stoke on trent a week and two maybe three trips to North London (I am based in Bedford) Obviously we will be able to use it for other trips as the business expands but I juust need some idea of the running costs of a second hand 18 tonne refridgerated lorry. doing approx 800 miles a week have about £20,000 to spend on the lorry or £20,000 to spend on a second van.

If I run vans I will only need to go to Stoke on trent 3/4 times a week but London 6 to 8 times

Insurance

MPG

Likely maintenance bills

Hourly rate for driver

I have a price for the 6 weekly check

And anything else I may have missed

I am leaning towards the two van route, I would need one full time driver, plus I could drive when required and also work in our unit when not driving if I go the van route

Thanks in advance Colin

Nickyboy

6,704 posts

241 months

Friday 24th June 2016
quotequote all
Bear in mind an 18 tonner is going to have a payload in the region of 9 tons

So for each trip the truck would make you would need 6 in a van if you were looking at running near to full payload.

18 tonner is likely to do 15-18mpg, a Sprinter for example will be around 25mpg depending on how it's driven but you have to take into account the fridge unit on the van will run off the main fuel tank whereas the 18 tonner will have a seperate tank.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

133 months

Friday 24th June 2016
quotequote all
Operator's licence, and all that goes with it...

Anyway, didn't you miss out the mid-option? 7.5t?

colinrob

Original Poster:

1,199 posts

258 months

Friday 24th June 2016
quotequote all
Trouble with 7.5 tonne is it can only carry about 3 tonne so it def better having the vans

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

133 months

Friday 24th June 2016
quotequote all
colinrob said:
Trouble with 7.5 tonne is it can only carry about 3 tonne so it def better having the vans
And a 3.5t van can carry how much...?

powerstroke

10,283 posts

167 months

Saturday 25th June 2016
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
colinrob said:
Trouble with 7.5 tonne is it can only carry about 3 tonne so it def better having the vans
And a 3.5t van can carry how much...?
A 3,5 ton fridge =about 1200 kg...

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

133 months

Saturday 25th June 2016
quotequote all
powerstroke said:
TooMany2cvs said:
colinrob said:
Trouble with 7.5 tonne is it can only carry about 3 tonne so it def better having the vans
And a 3.5t van can carry how much...?
A 3,5 ton fridge =about 1200 kg...
So the 7.5t has the same payload as 2.5 x 3.5t vans.

grumpy52

5,717 posts

173 months

Saturday 25th June 2016
quotequote all
You might find that a 3.5t fridge payload could be considerably less than 1200kg.
18t would need very careful consideration, euro emissions? 4,5,6 ?
Weight limits in the delivery areas ?
£12 ph drivers rate for 18t fridge work ,O licence cost ?
Breakdown coverage on an 18t ,fridge cover ?

ZX10R NIN

28,386 posts

132 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
If you're driving into London don't forget the ULEZ which will have an effect on what truck you buy I'd say a 7.5 ton will be the better option.

powerstroke

10,283 posts

167 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
Maybe worth buying a 3.5 ton and finding a sub contractor for your bigger jobs maybe some owner driver would run his waggon with your livery ???

mph1977

12,467 posts

175 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
colinrob said:
Trouble with 7.5 tonne is it can only carry about 3 tonne so it def better having the vans
And a 3.5t van can carry how much...?
1200- 1500 kg payload , little bit less if a fridge...

also

once a year MOT after 3 years, no tacho, no O -licence, No operating centre shenanigans ... 50 /60/70 speed limits

mph1977

12,467 posts

175 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
ZX10R NIN said:
If you're driving into London don't forget the ULEZ which will have an effect on what truck you buy I'd say a 7.5 ton will be the better option.
3.5 tonner - anyone with a cat B licence can drive

7.5 tonner, O licence, tacho cards for all drivers , driver CPC for all drivers and manager CPC needed , maintainance contract, approved operating centre ...

if the vans don't make sense financially you may as well go for a 10- 18 tonne truck ...

BishBosh

452 posts

231 months

Tuesday 5th July 2016
quotequote all
I have a 7.5T Canter with curtainside and it can carry 4.1 tonnes. I run this alongside a Citroen Relay van. Quick deliveries at low cost = Relay Van Larger loads/Full deliveries = Canter. It's very economical too @ 22mpg ish

Take a look on Mercedes web site....got the canter at 1% interest rate so some very good deals around and you get a good warranty too.

Edited by BishBosh on Tuesday 5th July 16:34

thepeoplespal

1,674 posts

284 months

Sunday 17th July 2016
quotequote all
Given the margins of transport companies at 5% for a good profitable one, why not consider contacting a local haulage firm and have them deal with the hassle via a contract, lets you get on with doing your day job.

GC8

19,910 posts

197 months

Monday 29th August 2016
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
Operator's licence, and all that goes with it...

Anyway, didn't you miss out the mid-option? 7.5t?
This will require the same operators licence.

All that jazz

7,632 posts

153 months

Saturday 3rd September 2016
quotequote all
BishBosh said:
I have a 7.5T Canter with curtainside and it can carry 4.1 tonnes. I run this alongside a Citroen Relay van. Quick deliveries at low cost = Relay Van Larger loads/Full deliveries = Canter. It's very economical too @ 22mpg ish

Take a look on Mercedes web site....got the canter at 1% interest rate so some very good deals around and you get a good warranty too.

Edited by BishBosh on Tuesday 5th July 16:34
The problem with the Canter is they are perhaps the worse vehicle to drive that's ever been built. Incredibly uncomfortable, pathetic little engines with no guts and the build quality is shocking. That's why no-one uses them except the gullible that bought all the salesman's patter on how great they are and how cheap the finance is.

One thing not mentioned by the OP is how heavy is the product? Having done a lot of fridge work over the years, as a general rule the product tends to be heavy/close to max weight. Your 1.2 kg payload on a van could well mean that you can legally only take 1.5 - 2 pallets of product, and depending on the wheel base, that could be 2 pallet spaces wasted. On an 18 tonner fridge wagon you would be able to take 9x 1 tonne pallets by putting a single pallet in the middle on the head board and then 4 rows of 2 pallets behind. A typical 18 tonner would have a 10 tonne payload but as it'd be a fridge motor you'll lose the best part of a tonne on the cherry tank and fridge gubbins.

The comments by others about O-licence apps/cost and all the monitoring, red tape and conformity that goes with it are well worth noting. I would say if you can comfortably max out the cube in the vans without going overweight then definitely stick to 2 vans unless the business expands to the point where you can fully utilise the 18 tonner every day.

GC8

19,910 posts

197 months

Saturday 3rd September 2016
quotequote all
I nearly commented to that effect, but didn't want to be negative. Id say that they are never bought by a person who has to drive them. They carry more, but youd probably prefer to drive a little DAF and carry the rest by hand...

wack

2,103 posts

213 months

Saturday 3rd September 2016
quotequote all
Is a refridgerated trailer an option

I used to run an Iveco Daily 3.5T towing a 3.5T trailer, it was a flatbed but the payload was 1T on the truck and 2.7T on the trailer.

You'll still need the Tachograph but no O licence if they're your own goods

BishBosh

452 posts

231 months

Saturday 3rd September 2016
quotequote all
All that jazz said:
The problem with the Canter is they are perhaps the worse vehicle to drive that's ever been built. Incredibly uncomfortable, pathetic little engines with no guts and the build quality is shocking. That's why no-one uses them except the gullible that bought all the salesman's patter on how great they are and how cheap the finance is.

One thing not mentioned by the OP is how heavy is the product? Having done a lot of fridge work over the years, as a general rule the product tends to be heavy/close to max weight. Your 1.2 kg payload on a van could well mean that you can legally only take 1.5 - 2 pallets of product, and depending on the wheel base, that could be 2 pallet spaces wasted. On an 18 tonner fridge wagon you would be able to take 9x 1 tonne pallets by putting a single pallet in the middle on the head board and then 4 rows of 2 pallets behind. A typical 18 tonner would have a 10 tonne payload but as it'd be a fridge motor you'll lose the best part of a tonne on the cherry tank and fridge gubbins.

The comments by others about O-licence apps/cost and all the monitoring, red tape and conformity that goes with it are well worth noting. I would say if you can comfortably max out the cube in the vans without going overweight then definitely stick to 2 vans unless the business expands to the point where you can fully utilise the 18 tonner every day.
Well I have to disagree, I have run them since 2003, I do drive them as well as have my employees drive them daily. No complaints. The only gripe I have is that the speed limiter is set so that everything overtakes me on the motorways, however I think that's not too bad as I don't end up having to overtake except on hills where I can keep up my speed and the big riggs slow right down. Off the lights it's very quick but then I went for the most powerful engine, less stress lots of power better at holding a full load and strangely more economical. Why would I buy a 7.5t truck only to carry less weight just to be more comfortable? Business is there to deliver the max within the rules for the least cost and the Canter does that much better than a daf with it's silly 3.5t payload. Nothing to do with being gullible but actual research into what is right for your companys operations.
I change my truck 3 years ago last time so it's on a 2013 plate. Just past it's 3rd mot without issue, I did look very hard at the alternatives out there and nothing touches it for the amount I can carry. I will run it another 2 years then look again.
Take this with a pinch of salt if you like but I actually run one so speak from experience.
If weight is not important then something else will probably do

All that jazz

7,632 posts

153 months

Saturday 3rd September 2016
quotequote all
BishBosh said:
Well I have to disagree, I have run them since 2003, I do drive them as well as have my employees drive them daily. No complaints. The only gripe I have is that the speed limiter is set so that everything overtakes me on the motorways, however I think that's not too bad as I don't end up having to overtake except on hills where I can keep up my speed and the big riggs slow right down. Off the lights it's very quick but then I went for the most powerful engine, less stress lots of power better at holding a full load and strangely more economical. Why would I buy a 7.5t truck only to carry less weight just to be more comfortable? Business is there to deliver the max within the rules for the least cost and the Canter does that much better than a daf with it's silly 3.5t payload. Nothing to do with being gullible but actual research into what is right for your companys operations.
I change my truck 3 years ago last time so it's on a 2013 plate. Just past it's 3rd mot without issue, I did look very hard at the alternatives out there and nothing touches it for the amount I can carry. I will run it another 2 years then look again.
Take this with a pinch of salt if you like but I actually run one so speak from experience.
If weight is not important then something else will probably do
If the drivers are happy with them then clearly they haven't driven anything else!

What is the limiter set to (from the digi tacho display, not what it says on the dial) ? If the tacho display is showing anything less than 90kmh then take it to the dealer and get them to up it. Don't let them fob you off with "ah, this is the Eco variant, sir, they're all set to 85kmh and we can't alter it". MAN tried that one with me and lost. They can be legally set to 90 on both the pedal and the CC but no higher. Alternatively if you get on the interweb and look for truck remapping companies, most will also do speed limiter adjustments so long as they have the dealer package. It's about a 10 min job once they've hooked up the laptop to the OBD port.

I wouldn't say that a 150hp engine is particularly powerful in a 7.5 tonner these days either. The MANs at the place I'm driving for are 180s and even they feel rather gutless, although in fairness I'm used to driving a 480hp tractor.

If it works for you then fair enough, but a 4t+ payload on a 7.5 tonner with a 150hp engine isn't going to be flying past many big rigs on hills!