vehicle delivery as an independent & tachograph systems

[Nebby]

Hi, not sure if this is in the correct area on the forum but here goes.

Difficult question i know but is there any work out there regarding delivering/recovery work as an independent with a van & trailer combination from the likes of local dealers in moving vehicles around the country, got a van & possibly got a trailer coming and would be looking at delivering vehicles but would also use the trailer in other ways plant machinery small diggers etc & anything else that could go on a trailer not just vehicles i.e obscure size loads garden buildings.

Which leads me to my tachograph question, obviously i would need a tacho because of commercial work but if the van has not got one fitted is there a system that can be transfered from vehicle to vehicle easily, is there any new laws regarding the use of trailers with tacho's rgarding driving times & can someone recommend a system & what sort of costs are we looking at.

Mnay thanks

[grumpy52]

Pretty sure anything over 3.5 t train weight used in a business (for hire or reward) will have to have a tacho .
Most commercial dealers can fit them but they have to be calibrated and certified which is done by a commercial testing station .
The units are not cheap ,£1k was bandied about when one of ours was playing about.
Work is out there, but it's word of mouth, reputation and contacts.
The trailer needs to be of commercial standard and go way OTT with straps and chains (yes chains )
Also insurance , value of goods carried, plus I think if winching in public areas, public liability is required.
Watch the weights !
Good luck .

[iguana]

Tacho costs are small change vs the insurance costs circa £4500 to £8k area as a ballpark dep on cover needed, you will need an operators licence, cost about a grand all in & can take 3 months to sort, driver cpc approx 500, engage a transport manager or do the operator cpc your self etc.

[iguana]

Ps ref yr tacho swap question, I've moved a unit ( the popular stoneridge electronics\veeder root one) non digi between 3 vehicles, its not a cheap exercise tho, cheaper than buying a new unit each time vehicle is changed, but still from memory £500 ish.

[Nebby]

Thanks will keep looking into this now.

[Super Slo Mo]

What kind of van do you have? Many or the 3,500 kg ones or below only have a towing weight of 2 tonnes, which will limit the payload you can have on a trailer. You'll be ok with small and medium sized cars, but bigger ones, vans and heavier plant might put you overweight.

Then as the chap above said, you've got to get all the necessary other legalities sorted out.

[Nebby]

Is cpc required for all licences or just after 1997? as mine is before.

[Nebby]

Will be between van & Landy I have which towing weight is much better with Landy so probably be that.

Edited by Nebby on Wednesday 23 April 13:10

[Stomnnorm]

You don't need an operators license if you're using a 3.5t vehicle and towing behind it. Also, something like a 3.5t Iveco Daily will have a GTW of 7000kgs

[Stomnnorm]

You don't need an operators license if you're using a 3.5t vehicle and towing behind it. Also, something like a 3.5t Iveco Daily will have a GTW of 7000kgs

[iguana]

Stomnnorm said:

You don't need an operators license if you're using a 3.5t vehicle and towing behind it.

Yes you do & have done since dec '11


You don't for a passenger 4x4 tho, (not a commercial ie panels not glass at rear or non crew cab pickup)

Edited by iguana on Wednesday 23 April 23:05

[iguana]

Ps yes bang on with ivecos, many- but not all are 7t train, ive used a 6.5t train as well as a 7t in 3.5t ivecos, transits are mainly 5.5t sprinters mainly 6.3t with a few 5.5t & 6.8t thrown in the mix.

However if van is empty & hes using just to tow the train is the number vosa care about well axle weights mainly too, empty 3.5t van with tools fuel & driver is unlikely to be over 2.5t so even worst case like 3.5t transits give you 3t to play with for towing (& be fine on rear axle weights) so not great for heavy cars in a big enclosed trailer when you need all the 3.5t allowed for non air brake regular hitch trailer regs but ok for most general stuff.

[Stomnnorm]

iguana said:

Yes you do & have done since dec '11


You don't for a passenger 4x4 tho, (not a commercial ie panels not glass at rear or non crew cab pickup)

Edited by iguana on Wednesday 23 April 23:05

I have never heard of this before so googled it. Most people I know who run 3.5t commercial vehicles and tow, don't have an OL. Obviously you are correct but it seems it only applies to freight journeys (obviously very relevant to this thread)!

Interesting to know.

All 3.5t Dailys now have a GTW of 7000kgs, but I get your point about other manufactures and weights of the prime mover. I remember someone I know buying a 260 transit over a 280 as he wasn't carrying very much in the van but could tow more.

[Super Slo Mo]

Nebby said:

Is cpc required for all licences or just after 1997? as mine is before.

All licences. There is a 'grandfather rights' thing, whereby if you already had an LGV licence before the rule change, you got 5 years grace before needing to get the Driver's CPC, but that ends this year I think (or next), I know I need to start thinking about it.

Also, you need a Transport Manager's CPC, or get someone to 'manage' your fleet for you. Plus your operator's licence, which is a bit of a convoluted exercise, not to mention reasonably expensive (as has been mentioned already, but operate without it and you risk having the vehicle impounded).

[R0G]

http://www.vosa.gov.uk/guide-for-horsebox-owners exchange the word horse for goods

[Nebby]

Hi thanks for the replys, everyone has to start somewhere so appologies for all the questions.

There isn't a fleet as such just me in a vehicle with a trailer so not sure where the transport manager bit comes in, help.

Also back to vehicle being used because i'm now reading it from Iguana's last post that if i use a 4x4 not commercial don't need operators license or cpc is that right, but if i use the van which would be virtually empty apart from tie down straps couple of jacks tool box consisting of spanners & sockets ( not doing breakdown ) has a gtw of 5300, gvw of 3300 but unladen of 1924 so even if i had 2-300 kg of tools does that give 3000kg towing capacity because i thought it went by the gtw - gvw regardless.

And because its a commercial i would need operators license & cpc.

Thanks

[Nebby]

Thanks Rog, that explains a lot more about it, will carry on looking into it now with this info.

[iguana]

4x4 is not an exclusion from cpc, just o licence, still needs tacho etc same. Digi 56 plate & newer, wax disc 06plate & older.

You would struggle ro make a living running a single car outfit if every trip you did was to tacho regs, the driver hrs are so restrictive, most guys will also have a tacho exempt I.e a 3.5t transporter for use for light cars or another vehicle even if its tacho'd, easy for wax tacho, tougher with digi & driver cards tho.

[Super Slo Mo]

The Transport Manager bit comes from the requirement for an operator's licence, essentially once you are within scope of needing an O' Licence, you need a qualified Transport Manager, even if you only have one vehicle. You can sub-contract it out, or do the Transport Manager's CPC yourself. This is in addition to any drivers needing to get a CPC.

However, if you can get away with using a 4x4 passenger/multi-purpose vehicle, there's the possibility that you are exempt from O'Licencing, and as such, don't need to worry about it. I don't know a lot about the 4x4 bit, so will let others advise you.

[iguana]

Its an utter nonsense having to have a o licence on a 3.5t anyway just because it tows.

So 6 wk checks, can't legally park it on the St outside year house, neightbours complaints could stop you parking on your own driveway as could transport commisioner if you have to reverse in.

And despite all of that on the tow vehicle that will do not more miles than a couriers van & has already to run a tacho unlike that courier, there currently exists no form of mot or checks needed on the trailer!

So just as daft as the driver cpc rubbish but a lot more expensive & just as pointless.