Discussion
Thinking on about this I am interest to know who examined the 5th wheel latch, was it a proper professional mechanic or was it a teenager in a VOSA coat ?
The fine seems lazy, there is a lot more to this than meets the eye, the 5th wheel couplings do not just open and let the trailer go, I have seen lorries at the bottom of ravines and upside down and rolled and the trailer remained connected.
To have driven the sort of distances he has gone with the pin not having engaged is, I would suggest, nigh on impossible. the bloody things latch automatically and you have to perform a procedure to unlatch it. They are supposed to be foolproof.
The fine seems lazy, there is a lot more to this than meets the eye, the 5th wheel couplings do not just open and let the trailer go, I have seen lorries at the bottom of ravines and upside down and rolled and the trailer remained connected.
To have driven the sort of distances he has gone with the pin not having engaged is, I would suggest, nigh on impossible. the bloody things latch automatically and you have to perform a procedure to unlatch it. They are supposed to be foolproof.
Getragdogleg said:
To have driven the sort of distances he has gone with the pin not having engaged is, I would suggest, nigh on impossible.
+1, The only thing that I can think of would be that he didn't put the dog clip in the hole, which is what they have fined him for. There must have been some other failure to contribute to that happening though, which whoever inspected it couldn't find. I've seen all sorts of failures from the 5th wheel to the pin breaking off of the bottom of the trailer, but they would all be fairly obvious when you looked into it.heebeegeetee said:
Getragdogleg said:
Driving the distance he did before it fell off ought to have been test enough.
How the hell did it not come off straight away ?
I've never heard of such a thing!How the hell did it not come off straight away ?
Brite spark said:
heebeegeetee said:
Getragdogleg said:
Driving the distance he did before it fell off ought to have been test enough.
How the hell did it not come off straight away ?
I've never heard of such a thing!How the hell did it not come off straight away ?
The first example of the trailer not being coupled and falling as he set off is the outcome I expect from a coupling talent failure. The second example could be failure or breakage of any number of parts.
This UK report states the coupling was fine, my question is who checked it ? they don't fail like this, it's impossible unless it breaks.
I think we are not hearing the whole tale.
Getragdogleg said:
The American system could well be different to the EU/UK type of coupling.
The first example of the trailer not being coupled and falling as he set off is the outcome I expect from a coupling talent failure. The second example could be failure or breakage of any number of parts.
This UK report states the coupling was fine, my question is who checked it ? they don't fail like this, it's impossible unless it breaks.
I think we are not hearing the whole tale.
Yes in Ice Road truckers the first one was definitely driver error, cant recall the other one.The first example of the trailer not being coupled and falling as he set off is the outcome I expect from a coupling talent failure. The second example could be failure or breakage of any number of parts.
This UK report states the coupling was fine, my question is who checked it ? they don't fail like this, it's impossible unless it breaks.
I think we are not hearing the whole tale.
Getragdogleg said:
Brite spark said:
heebeegeetee said:
Getragdogleg said:
Driving the distance he did before it fell off ought to have been test enough.
How the hell did it not come off straight away ?
I've never heard of such a thing!How the hell did it not come off straight away ?
The first example of the trailer not being coupled and falling as he set off is the outcome I expect from a coupling talent failure. The second example could be failure or breakage of any number of parts.
This UK report states the coupling was fine, my question is who checked it ? they don't fail like this, it's impossible unless it breaks.
I think we are not hearing the whole tale.
rumple said:
the Americans use the same fifth wheel as us, outside my last job the road had an extreme camber on it, a truck left the yard going like hell and the trailer came off, the fifth wheel was locked in as well, I believe its possible for the pin to jump out under extreme conditions.
Learn something new every day ! I kind of assumed the Americans would use a stems similar. The pin itself has a large flange and the hole in the top of the 5th wheel when the latch is closed is way smaller than the flange.I am sure if you mix in poor greasing, and a worn pin it is possible to get a parting of the ways. My point about this is that in this case it seems like he failed to couple it correctly and then managed to drive a considerable distance. It is this I have a problem with.
Getragdogleg said:
rumple said:
the Americans use the same fifth wheel as us, outside my last job the road had an extreme camber on it, a truck left the yard going like hell and the trailer came off, the fifth wheel was locked in as well, I believe its possible for the pin to jump out under extreme conditions.
Learn something new every day ! I kind of assumed the Americans would use a stems similar. The pin itself has a large flange and the hole in the top of the 5th wheel when the latch is closed is way smaller than the flange.I am sure if you mix in poor greasing, and a worn pin it is possible to get a parting of the ways. My point about this is that in this case it seems like he failed to couple it correctly and then managed to drive a considerable distance. It is this I have a problem with.
rumple said:
Getragdogleg said:
rumple said:
the Americans use the same fifth wheel as us, outside my last job the road had an extreme camber on it, a truck left the yard going like hell and the trailer came off, the fifth wheel was locked in as well, I believe its possible for the pin to jump out under extreme conditions.
Learn something new every day ! I kind of assumed the Americans would use a stems similar. The pin itself has a large flange and the hole in the top of the 5th wheel when the latch is closed is way smaller than the flange.I am sure if you mix in poor greasing, and a worn pin it is possible to get a parting of the ways. My point about this is that in this case it seems like he failed to couple it correctly and then managed to drive a considerable distance. It is this I have a problem with.
Getragdogleg said:
To have driven the sort of distances he has gone with the pin not having engaged is, I would suggest, nigh on impossible. The bloody things latch automatically and you have to perform a procedure to unlatch it. They are supposed to be foolproof.
I had a situaton last week where I thought I had engaged the pin, and it passed the 'two tugs' test, or so I thought. Except there was an unusual bit of play after each tug, and when I went to insert the chain clip, I couldn't find the hole..The trailer and legs were on level ground but the ground approach to the pin with the unit was on a slight gradient that sloped away from the front of the trailer. Although I had raised the unit suspension to its max prior to coulping, the gradient was significant enough that the entire plate had passed under the pin. The clunk which I assumed to be the engagement was actually the trailer pin falling off the front edge of the fifth wheel plate. Fortunately, as I always try to couple as gently as possible (I see no point in risking undue stress on the pin) I avoided any suzi or connector damage as the front of the trailer stopped the unit, sandwiching them in between!
I then had to lower the unit suspension, get out from under and find a shunter to lift the trailer so that I could take a couple of turns off the legs, so the trailer was then low enough for me to couple up to.
If this guy had forgotten to put his chain clip in, (ignore vehicle checks at your peril) he might not have realised he'd done the same, and may well have driven at slow speed a significant distance without any sharp turns before the trailer and unit separated.
For me, it was a combination of a trailer with its legs down too much and being parked too close to a water run off area in the yard.
If I had been rushing, and forgotten to put the chain in, I could well have done the same, although such is the nature of the yard layout I'd have lost the trailer long before reaching the main gate!
Vehicle checks, never rush 'em.
We have a problem where the northern contingent have been given a b
king about ruining the cogs by dropping the trailers hard. They have now been told to lift their suspension, lower the legs and drop the cabs suspension as the pull off as apparently dropping below the normal ride hight can damage the mudflaps and guards on the units 
You know where this is going dont you, the fact that they all have scanias and the renault/volvo/mercs that we run dont lift as high coupled with trailers dumping air if theyre left a couple of days means that everytime someone new turns up they make a trailer sized dent in the back of the cab and lose all of the aero kit.
king about ruining the cogs by dropping the trailers hard. They have now been told to lift their suspension, lower the legs and drop the cabs suspension as the pull off as apparently dropping below the normal ride hight can damage the mudflaps and guards on the units You know where this is going dont you, the fact that they all have scanias and the renault/volvo/mercs that we run dont lift as high coupled with trailers dumping air if theyre left a couple of days means that everytime someone new turns up they make a trailer sized dent in the back of the cab and lose all of the aero kit.
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