A load of 4x4 ex army truck questions.
Discussion
I think i asked a similar question when commercial break was first introduced to PH. But i now have quite a few questions, so here goes.
I work for my families business which involves regularly transporting goods into and out of muddy fields (agricultural shows and country fairs). Therefore man logic dictates i need a 4x4 truck.
Currently we have a mwb transit van on lease, which although good, we could really do with living accomodation, as camping in tents is s
t and Travel Lodges get very expensive very quickly.
This therefore means we need extra weight allowance and with that comes traction issues.
I have been bored the last week and have been messing around with Google Sketchup and trucktrader and the like.
There are a few options i have come up with.
1) Land Rover Defender 130 chassis cab (with box body) towing a caravan.
Positives. Newer Vehicle. Possibly better on fuel? Possibly cheaper running costs. Much comfier on road.
Negatives. 2.2 liter defender could be gutless on faster roads with circa 5.5 ton train weight, and therefore probably hugely thirsty. The load height of the box body. Very few second hand which would probably mean leasing or buying a new one which will work out costly. Will still require an operators licence and tachograph.
2) Ex Army DAF 45 with caravan body towing a car sized box trailer.
(sorry for the second image which uses a Eurocargo 4x4)
Positives. Cheap purchase price. Will retain most of its value. Higher weight capacity if the business needs to transport more in the future. Box trailer with lower floor means much easier access.
Negatives. I have very little idea what the running costs of such a thing are like.
Therefore, what sort of costs are involved in running an ex army truck?
Tyres, mpg, servicing and testing, insurance, tax, consumables, operators licence, tachograph and reliability (and of course all the added costs that i havnt considered)
Finally, is it possible to mount a caravan onto the chassis of a lorry? I have never seen a naked chassis of a lorry before, nor have i inspected a caravan chassis. Is it possible to remove the caravan's axle and bolt the caravan onto the lorry?
Thank you for reading and i really hope you can make some suggestions and cure my confusion.
(ps... i forgot to add, what would a 150hp 20 year old permenant 4x4 DAF be like in modern traffic conditions? Would i be expecting too much to expect it to sit at 50 mph?
I work for my families business which involves regularly transporting goods into and out of muddy fields (agricultural shows and country fairs). Therefore man logic dictates i need a 4x4 truck.
Currently we have a mwb transit van on lease, which although good, we could really do with living accomodation, as camping in tents is s
t and Travel Lodges get very expensive very quickly.This therefore means we need extra weight allowance and with that comes traction issues.
I have been bored the last week and have been messing around with Google Sketchup and trucktrader and the like.
There are a few options i have come up with.
1) Land Rover Defender 130 chassis cab (with box body) towing a caravan.
Positives. Newer Vehicle. Possibly better on fuel? Possibly cheaper running costs. Much comfier on road.
Negatives. 2.2 liter defender could be gutless on faster roads with circa 5.5 ton train weight, and therefore probably hugely thirsty. The load height of the box body. Very few second hand which would probably mean leasing or buying a new one which will work out costly. Will still require an operators licence and tachograph.
2) Ex Army DAF 45 with caravan body towing a car sized box trailer.
(sorry for the second image which uses a Eurocargo 4x4)
Positives. Cheap purchase price. Will retain most of its value. Higher weight capacity if the business needs to transport more in the future. Box trailer with lower floor means much easier access.
Negatives. I have very little idea what the running costs of such a thing are like.
Therefore, what sort of costs are involved in running an ex army truck?
Tyres, mpg, servicing and testing, insurance, tax, consumables, operators licence, tachograph and reliability (and of course all the added costs that i havnt considered)
Finally, is it possible to mount a caravan onto the chassis of a lorry? I have never seen a naked chassis of a lorry before, nor have i inspected a caravan chassis. Is it possible to remove the caravan's axle and bolt the caravan onto the lorry?
Thank you for reading and i really hope you can make some suggestions and cure my confusion.
(ps... i forgot to add, what would a 150hp 20 year old permenant 4x4 DAF be like in modern traffic conditions? Would i be expecting too much to expect it to sit at 50 mph?
Edited by Benbay001 on Sunday 24th March 16:56
Inspiration http://www.theoverlander.org/my-wheels/trucks/
Have a browse through some of those, I think there's an old daf army thing in there somewhere too. Theres a few crappy build threads about as well http://betweendreams.org.uk/tagged/Gallery/chrono
I've helped out with a couple old iveco race trucks, but theyre not what you want if you are going off road and towing decent weight.
Can you tell that I have thought about this before
Have a browse through some of those, I think there's an old daf army thing in there somewhere too. Theres a few crappy build threads about as well http://betweendreams.org.uk/tagged/Gallery/chrono
I've helped out with a couple old iveco race trucks, but theyre not what you want if you are going off road and towing decent weight.
Can you tell that I have thought about this before
If you're reasonably handy with the spanners/welder, nothing. The caravan chassis rails may or may not line up with the truck chassis, but a bit of ingenuity and some bits of angle iron should solve that little problem.
In terms of what it's like on the road, it's probably best to think in truck terms, not car terms. So that means fairly leisurely acceleration, and possibly slow progress on hills. However, it's not that underpowered, I have fond (not really) memories of driving Volvo FL6 18 tonners on the multi-drop circuit, a whopping 180 bhp to propel 18 tonnes of behemoth. The M62 heading from Manchester to Leeds saw speeds of 22-23 mph on the steepest parts.
As long as you don't expect it to be fast, you'll be fine. 150 bhp should drag 7.5 tonnes plus around without too much issue. Years ago I had a 12 tonner with the same power output. It was ok, but did lose speed on the hills, so I needed to plan ahead, no point attempting to overtake an artic if there was a hill looming, for instance, as he'd just stroll up it, while I'd be losing ground in the middle lane looking stupid.
In terms of what it's like on the road, it's probably best to think in truck terms, not car terms. So that means fairly leisurely acceleration, and possibly slow progress on hills. However, it's not that underpowered, I have fond (not really) memories of driving Volvo FL6 18 tonners on the multi-drop circuit, a whopping 180 bhp to propel 18 tonnes of behemoth. The M62 heading from Manchester to Leeds saw speeds of 22-23 mph on the steepest parts.
As long as you don't expect it to be fast, you'll be fine. 150 bhp should drag 7.5 tonnes plus around without too much issue. Years ago I had a 12 tonner with the same power output. It was ok, but did lose speed on the hills, so I needed to plan ahead, no point attempting to overtake an artic if there was a hill looming, for instance, as he'd just stroll up it, while I'd be losing ground in the middle lane looking stupid.
Super Slo Mo said:
If you're reasonably handy with the spanners/welder, nothing. The caravan chassis rails may or may not line up with the truck chassis, but a bit of ingenuity and some bits of angle iron should solve that little problem.
In terms of what it's like on the road, it's probably best to think in truck terms, not car terms. So that means fairly leisurely acceleration, and possibly slow progress on hills. However, it's not that underpowered, I have fond (not really) memories of driving Volvo FL6 18 tonners on the multi-drop circuit, a whopping 180 bhp to propel 18 tonnes of behemoth. The M62 heading from Manchester to Leeds saw speeds of 22-23 mph on the steepest parts.
As long as you don't expect it to be fast, you'll be fine. 150 bhp should drag 7.5 tonnes plus around without too much issue. Years ago I had a 12 tonner with the same power output. It was ok, but did lose speed on the hills, so I needed to plan ahead, no point attempting to overtake an artic if there was a hill looming, for instance, as he'd just stroll up it, while I'd be losing ground in the middle lane looking stupid.
Speed wasnt so much my concern, more the wallowy handling of a jacked up lorry running on tall semi off road biased tyres. In terms of what it's like on the road, it's probably best to think in truck terms, not car terms. So that means fairly leisurely acceleration, and possibly slow progress on hills. However, it's not that underpowered, I have fond (not really) memories of driving Volvo FL6 18 tonners on the multi-drop circuit, a whopping 180 bhp to propel 18 tonnes of behemoth. The M62 heading from Manchester to Leeds saw speeds of 22-23 mph on the steepest parts.
As long as you don't expect it to be fast, you'll be fine. 150 bhp should drag 7.5 tonnes plus around without too much issue. Years ago I had a 12 tonner with the same power output. It was ok, but did lose speed on the hills, so I needed to plan ahead, no point attempting to overtake an artic if there was a hill looming, for instance, as he'd just stroll up it, while I'd be losing ground in the middle lane looking stupid.
As Spaceman said, it's not going to be heavily laden, if anything it'll be a bit firmly sprung.
If you go hurling it into a corner as if it's an MX-5, it's likely to lift an inside wheel or two, although it'll probably just understeer a bit actually. I suspect it'll be better, and less wobbly, than a 110 defender. Either way, once you get used to it, it'll be fine.
Seems like a good idea to me, although I like big, unwieldy vehicles, so you probably shouldn't take any notice of me.
If you go hurling it into a corner as if it's an MX-5, it's likely to lift an inside wheel or two, although it'll probably just understeer a bit actually. I suspect it'll be better, and less wobbly, than a 110 defender. Either way, once you get used to it, it'll be fine.
Seems like a good idea to me, although I like big, unwieldy vehicles, so you probably shouldn't take any notice of me.
Umm not sure but as its over 3.5 ton you will have to be sure you can register it as a motor caravan otherwise its going to be subject to"O" licences and all that comercial stuff if used for hire or reward , it also depends on weight as to what driving licence you will need!!! ROG who posts on here would be good to ask that one..
They are much noisier than civvie trucks, id serieously invest in some sound proofing, its a sleeper cab without a bunk so plenty of scope to make it comfy, they are a lorry so not fast like a car they will sit at 60 mph all day, off road they are awesome, almost landrover defender like, they are a 12 tonne truck with a payload of 4 tonnes, they wont have a stereo, they wont be particulary ergonomic inside, they are a hoot off road though.
Super Slo Mo said:
I think the OP is expecting it to need to be on an O'Licence, as he's going to be towing a trailer for commercial purposes.
Correct. I am fully aware that i will need an O licence.I also aware i need category c + e on my licence as the trailer will be 3.5 ton aswell.
How costly is tax / insurance / maintaince on something like this?
For it to make a good business case it would need similar or lower running costs than a defender.
Road tax is £200ish according to A pdf I downloaded here https://www.gov.uk/apply-hgv-vehicle-licence-tax-d...
Benbay001 said:
Correct. I am fully aware that i will need an O licence.
I also aware i need category c + e on my licence as the trailer will be 3.5 ton aswell.
How costly is tax / insurance / maintaince on something like this?
For it to make a good business case it would need similar or lower running costs than a defender.
Anything on an O'Licence has or should be on a routine maintenance schedule, that is, you should be having the vehicle subjected to regular routine inspections, not quite MOT level, but enough to pick up any developing faults etc. However, there's nothing to stop you doing it yourself, if you have the necessary skills, but you need to cover it with a paper trail. I also aware i need category c + e on my licence as the trailer will be 3.5 ton aswell.
How costly is tax / insurance / maintaince on something like this?
For it to make a good business case it would need similar or lower running costs than a defender.
In terms of running costs, Tax shouldn't be too much these days, probably nothing different to a Defender, similarly, insurance on a commercial/business policy probably (guessing here) won't be much different.
Fuel consumption, based on a reasonably educated guess, will be in the region of 14 - 18 mpg. A Defender towing a 3.5 tonne trailer won't be much better, if anything at all.
I could speculate on whether a Defender is more or less durable for the work you'll be requiring of it, and thus having maintenance costs relating to that, but I'd just be guessing so I'll not offer anything on that one.
Chrisgr31 said:
Always a danger in posting in a topic on a subject you know nothing about, but never mind.
Do some of the horse boxes have sleeping accommodation and therefore would you be better with one of these and forget the towing? Mind you not sure how they cope with mud!
They do, but A) they are worth mega money for what you get B) i dislike horses with every ounce of my body.Do some of the horse boxes have sleeping accommodation and therefore would you be better with one of these and forget the towing? Mind you not sure how they cope with mud!
C) they get very very stuck.
I had the displeasure of driving an Iveco 4x4 a few months back, it was a 2002 with a crane and dropside, I reckon it was the worst truck I've ever driven! And I've driven a few Ivecos 
Top speed was around 45mph with the engine screaming its conkers off! While that was going on the wheel wobble was enough to shake your teeth loose
Then there was the brakes! Drum I believe and badly adjusted, the first time I touched them (lightly) the truck tried to leap in the hedge, the next time when I was a bit more prepared it took a liking for the oncoming traffic!
I know this was a badly maintained example but the thought of putting a weight on the back and towing with it makes me shudder!
Top speed was around 45mph with the engine screaming its conkers off! While that was going on the wheel wobble was enough to shake your teeth loose
Then there was the brakes! Drum I believe and badly adjusted, the first time I touched them (lightly) the truck tried to leap in the hedge, the next time when I was a bit more prepared it took a liking for the oncoming traffic!
I know this was a badly maintained example but the thought of putting a weight on the back and towing with it makes me shudder!
pja said:
I had the displeasure of driving an Iveco 4x4 a few months back, it was a 2002 with a crane and dropside, I reckon it was the worst truck I've ever driven! And I've driven a few Ivecos
Top speed was around 45mph with the engine screaming its conkers off! While that was going on the wheel wobble was enough to shake your teeth loose
Then there was the brakes! Drum I believe and badly adjusted, the first time I touched them (lightly) the truck tried to leap in the hedge, the next time when I was a bit more prepared it took a liking for the oncoming traffic!
I know this was a badly maintained example but the thought of putting a weight on the back and towing with it makes me shudder!
This is what worried me Top speed was around 45mph with the engine screaming its conkers off! While that was going on the wheel wobble was enough to shake your teeth loose
Then there was the brakes! Drum I believe and badly adjusted, the first time I touched them (lightly) the truck tried to leap in the hedge, the next time when I was a bit more prepared it took a liking for the oncoming traffic!
I know this was a badly maintained example but the thought of putting a weight on the back and towing with it makes me shudder!
Ex-military.
Unstoppable.
Unbreakable.
Big box already fitted.
http://www.russianmilitary.co.uk/details.php?heade...
Unstoppable.
Unbreakable.
Big box already fitted.
http://www.russianmilitary.co.uk/details.php?heade...
Gassing Station | Commercial Break | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff