What to use Securing Concrete Lintels?
Discussion
I came off the M11/N Circ at Redbridge roundabout today and had to avoid driving over some wood and bits of steel laying in the road on the slip to the traffic lights. Carried on forward a bit and just crossing the lights and entering the roundabout is an artic with a load of large 20ft concrete lintels, stacked about four high in bundles of 2 separated by wood bolsters. The entire load had shifted forward breaking the steel headboard and pushing it into the back of the cab. The driver was looking puzzled as head board rubbing on cab was making a lot of noise but he seemed oblivious as to what had happened until he finally decided to stop. He would not have been able to negotiate the roundabout as no doubt any turn would have caused the cab mounts to break under the force.
Not a good day for the driver, probably f
ked cab, fked trailer and fked load, every lintel had broken.
The thing about all this is that he only had two fabric straps, which were both broken and dragging along the road, holding down what I would think is about 20-25 tons of concrete, same size straps as I use 4 of to tie down my one ton race car.
So what should would you use? I used to use chains for steel and I would use the same for concrete or have things changed since I last did general 35+ years ago?
Not a good day for the driver, probably f
ked cab, fked trailer and fked load, every lintel had broken.The thing about all this is that he only had two fabric straps, which were both broken and dragging along the road, holding down what I would think is about 20-25 tons of concrete, same size straps as I use 4 of to tie down my one ton race car.
So what should would you use? I used to use chains for steel and I would use the same for concrete or have things changed since I last did general 35+ years ago?
i've never pulled concrete lenghts like you describe, but 2 straps 
i'd use as many as poss strap wise, makes sense, and if the police/vosa had a nose if they were passing, more likely to leave you alone. if it was 25 tonne, and i had 5 tonne straps, i'd go for 6-7 at least.
would chains be better?
on a side note, was in tilbury last night, just entering my details to pull on the grid to get my loaded box on. heard an almighty noise, looked up and saw a lorry up in the air, hanging off the bottom of a straddle
straddle was trying to lift the box off, but the truck driver had forgot to open the twistlocks.
oops.
i'd use as many as poss strap wise, makes sense, and if the police/vosa had a nose if they were passing, more likely to leave you alone. if it was 25 tonne, and i had 5 tonne straps, i'd go for 6-7 at least.
would chains be better?
on a side note, was in tilbury last night, just entering my details to pull on the grid to get my loaded box on. heard an almighty noise, looked up and saw a lorry up in the air, hanging off the bottom of a straddle
straddle was trying to lift the box off, but the truck driver had forgot to open the twistlocks.
oops.
chilistrucker said:
i've never pulled concrete lenghts like you describe, but 2 straps
i'd use as many as poss strap wise, makes sense, and if the police/vosa had a nose if they were passing, more likely to leave you alone. if it was 25 tonne, and i had 5 tonne straps, i'd go for 6-7 at least.
would chains be better?
I would be very surprised if the police weren't involved, I don't see how he could have done anything but driven in a straight line. He came to a standstill so I didn't bother myself stopping or interfering as It's very busy and imo a very dangerous roundabout so didn't want to hang around. He may have had more than 2 straps but that's all that were left dangling on the road as I drove past him.i'd use as many as poss strap wise, makes sense, and if the police/vosa had a nose if they were passing, more likely to leave you alone. if it was 25 tonne, and i had 5 tonne straps, i'd go for 6-7 at least.
would chains be better?
chilistrucker said:
on a side note, was in tilbury last night, just entering my details to pull on the grid to get my loaded box on. heard an almighty noise, looked up and saw a lorry up in the air, hanging off the bottom of a straddle
straddle was trying to lift the box off, but the truck driver had forgot to open the twistlocks.
oops.
I've seen that before. One that always sticks in my mind was in 43 or 45 berth, a straddle had an overheight open container with one of those American alloy Airvane caravans on. He put it on a trailer, lifted the frame up but there wasn't enough clearance under the overheight frame and as he moved off he opened both sides of the caravan roof up from one end to the other like a tin opener.straddle was trying to lift the box off, but the truck driver had forgot to open the twistlocks.
oops.
Edited by jagracer on Wednesday 6th February 15:12
Those concrete lintels are an absolute nightmare to get 100% secure WITHOUT damaging them, as many are loaded on dropped trailers and collected in a drop empty and pick up loaded trailer practice,
NEVER use chains on concrete products for the building industry they damage the product, always straps, preferably with pull down ratchets, although I believe pull down ratchets are not as common in parts of the uk not involved in oil and gas transportation
I sympathise with the truck driver as its not a clear cut insecure load, there is very little that can be done to secure the central items other than placing lengths of stick diagonally across the lintels to try and secure the central ones.
How I used to do it was 4 straps, two at either end went over the lintels on their own, then place one or two sticks diagonally across the lintels that are 1 or 2 back from the edge, then secure them with the other two straps over the wood. I never had any move on me.
Worth noting that they should always only be loaded at MOST 3-5 feet from the headboard to prevent them gaining enough momentum to bend the headboard in the above situation.
I have had exactly the same happen to me a few years back, with a rogue drill pipe placed inside a 9" casing, it was a mixed load of scrap offshore pipe for Aberdeen and heading up the A90, a transit van overtook me and realised at the last minute he was about to miss his turn off, cue him cutting in front of me, so close that I couldn't see his back door and me standing on the brakes, rouge 9"pipe has a 5.5" drill pipe inside it, it slides forward Into the headboard and I was in exactly the same situation as the driver in the original post. The rest of the load never moved, it was 1 rouge drill pipe that was inside another that I was unaware of at there were protectors fitted. (As it was scrap pipe I have a feeling it was hidden on purpose)
Mechanic had to be called out and the seized sliding fifth wheel freed off to allow me to make it to the yard, transit driver blissfully unaware fked off up the road as if he had done no wrong
NEVER use chains on concrete products for the building industry they damage the product, always straps, preferably with pull down ratchets, although I believe pull down ratchets are not as common in parts of the uk not involved in oil and gas transportation
I sympathise with the truck driver as its not a clear cut insecure load, there is very little that can be done to secure the central items other than placing lengths of stick diagonally across the lintels to try and secure the central ones.
How I used to do it was 4 straps, two at either end went over the lintels on their own, then place one or two sticks diagonally across the lintels that are 1 or 2 back from the edge, then secure them with the other two straps over the wood. I never had any move on me.
Worth noting that they should always only be loaded at MOST 3-5 feet from the headboard to prevent them gaining enough momentum to bend the headboard in the above situation.
I have had exactly the same happen to me a few years back, with a rogue drill pipe placed inside a 9" casing, it was a mixed load of scrap offshore pipe for Aberdeen and heading up the A90, a transit van overtook me and realised at the last minute he was about to miss his turn off, cue him cutting in front of me, so close that I couldn't see his back door and me standing on the brakes, rouge 9"pipe has a 5.5" drill pipe inside it, it slides forward Into the headboard and I was in exactly the same situation as the driver in the original post. The rest of the load never moved, it was 1 rouge drill pipe that was inside another that I was unaware of at there were protectors fitted. (As it was scrap pipe I have a feeling it was hidden on purpose)
Mechanic had to be called out and the seized sliding fifth wheel freed off to allow me to make it to the yard, transit driver blissfully unaware f
ked off up the road as if he had done no wrong Edited by martin mrt on Wednesday 6th February 17:54
Edited by martin mrt on Wednesday 6th February 17:56
^ +1 Can't use chains as it destroys the load. I used to use straps, if it was just a load of lintels I would normally just use 4 to make it look like I had made half an effort, a couple more if there were loose shapes on top.
The failure he made was not driving according to the load that he was carrying, as even throwing 10 straps over wont stop the load flying forward if you stand on the brakes.
The failure he made was not driving according to the load that he was carrying, as even throwing 10 straps over wont stop the load flying forward if you stand on the brakes.
I would fully expect that a moron in a car has cut across in front of him and stood on the brakes, It's a ball ache of a road and roundabout and I try and avoid it if possible. As Martin and spaceman say, he was probably not driving according to the load and paid the price. Would he have been better to have them tight against the headboard so they can't pick up any momentum (they may well have been anyway) The other thing about the straps was that the concrete appeared to be very rough and with general movement on the road could have cut the straps but as I said they didn't look very heavy duty, just the sort we use for car transporting on my car trailer, only about 2 ton certified.
Edited by jagracer on Wednesday 6th February 18:37
Yeah, I always used to put them on the headboard but most of the time that only reached half way up the load. Get big plastic corner things to put on the edges of the load to protect the straps or theres protective sleeves like the chav sparco things you get on seatbelts, sometimes I found some long metal 90 degree strips to cover the corners too.
Like this but heavy duty
Like this but heavy duty
You could have loaded them hard against the headboard, but it can bring in the risk of overloading on the drive axle on the unit if your not careful
As I said earlier, many concrete products are not actually loaded on the trailers by the driver of the unit pulling the trailer, they are usually loaded on dropped empty trailers by "shunters" in the concrete factory/yard and collected by the drivers who will usually exchange an empty trailer for their now loaded one. This practice in itself brings in issues loading at the headboard, as there can be too much weight in front of the legs to drop the trailer safely. It's sometimes not quite as clear cut once you scratch beneath the surface.
Had the driver loaded them himself he has no one to blame, but himself, for not ensuring sufficient straps were used, protecting the straps from the sharp edges of the concrete (this in itself will be an issue in this case) and driving in accordance with the nature of his load
It's worth noting that straps and ratchets certified to 5t are only certified to 5t when new, once they have been used this immediately drops to 2.5t, there was a big thing made about this a good few years ago in the transport side of the oil and gas sector, which I worked in for 10years (currently taking time out to be a full time dad)
I hauled concrete as backloads last year from Edinburgh to Aberdeen for a university building, it was mostly flooring sections but essentially big lentils, they were an absolute pleasure to pull, full load to 44t and how they sat on the trailer was perfect, few feet from the headboard, in between bolsters, they NEVER moved with 4 straps on and the great thing about how they sat on the trailer my unit seemed to pull brilliantly with them on, I thought they were a bit light at first, but each load was always between 27-27.5 tonnes
As I said earlier, many concrete products are not actually loaded on the trailers by the driver of the unit pulling the trailer, they are usually loaded on dropped empty trailers by "shunters" in the concrete factory/yard and collected by the drivers who will usually exchange an empty trailer for their now loaded one. This practice in itself brings in issues loading at the headboard, as there can be too much weight in front of the legs to drop the trailer safely. It's sometimes not quite as clear cut once you scratch beneath the surface.
Had the driver loaded them himself he has no one to blame, but himself, for not ensuring sufficient straps were used, protecting the straps from the sharp edges of the concrete (this in itself will be an issue in this case) and driving in accordance with the nature of his load
It's worth noting that straps and ratchets certified to 5t are only certified to 5t when new, once they have been used this immediately drops to 2.5t, there was a big thing made about this a good few years ago in the transport side of the oil and gas sector, which I worked in for 10years (currently taking time out to be a full time dad)
I hauled concrete as backloads last year from Edinburgh to Aberdeen for a university building, it was mostly flooring sections but essentially big lentils, they were an absolute pleasure to pull, full load to 44t and how they sat on the trailer was perfect, few feet from the headboard, in between bolsters, they NEVER moved with 4 straps on and the great thing about how they sat on the trailer my unit seemed to pull brilliantly with them on, I thought they were a bit light at first, but each load was always between 27-27.5 tonnes
jagracer said:
I would fully expect that a moron in a car has cut across in front of him and stood on the brakes, It's a ball ache of a road and roundabout and I try and avoid it if possible. As Martin and spaceman say, he was probably not driving according to the load and paid the price. Would he have been better to have them tight against the headboard so they can't pick up any momentum (they may well have been anyway) The other thing about the straps was that the concrete appeared to be very rough and with general movement on the road could have cut the straps but as I said they didn't look very heavy duty, just the sort we use for car transporting on my car trailer, only about 2 ton certified.
As you and spaceman have said "driving according to the load" and with only two straps?I drive that route all the time and there are countless idiots that drive like they shouldn't be on the road, in all sorts of vehicles. That bit where the M11 joins the North circ, there are often accidents there. Remember last year a motorcyclist was killed when he hit the rear of a car merging and went into the barriers on the central reservation.
Perhaps a mixture of motorway drivers and some town drivers merging and a severe cock up on lane discipline and not adjusting the different speeds?
What I mean by 'town drivers' are some incompetent drivers who come off the estates surrounding the North circ and use it for a short hop down to the next junction or two, who will cause an accident and not realise it.
I've even had a dear old boy in a mercedes pull out in front of me, when I was fully loaded and carry on going into the next lane, in front of a tipper.
I always try to drive for the unexpected, but there's no allowing for that type of incompetent driving.
jagracer said:
I came off the M11/N Circ at Redbridge roundabout today and had to avoid driving over some wood and bits of steel laying in the road on the slip to the traffic lights. Carried on forward a bit and just crossing the lights and entering the roundabout is an artic with a load of large 20ft concrete lintels, stacked about four high in bundles of 2 separated by wood bolsters. The entire load had shifted forward breaking the steel headboard and pushing it into the back of the cab. The driver was looking puzzled as head board rubbing on cab was making a lot of noise but he seemed oblivious as to what had happened until he finally decided to stop. He would not have been able to negotiate the roundabout as no doubt any turn would have caused the cab mounts to break under the force.
Not a good day for the driver, probably fked cab, fked trailer and fked load, every lintel had broken.
The thing about all this is that he only had two fabric straps, which were both broken and dragging along the road, holding down what I would think is about 20-25 tons of concrete, same size straps as I use 4 of to tie down my one ton race car.
So what should would you use? I used to use chains for steel and I would use the same for concrete or have things changed since I last did general 35+ years ago?
I also saw this but must have been a bit after you, He had managed to get it round the roundabout and on to the A12 towards london when i saw it. It was pulled over to the side of the road. I did wonder what what he would have to do with it?.Not a good day for the driver, probably f
ked cab, fked trailer and fked load, every lintel had broken.The thing about all this is that he only had two fabric straps, which were both broken and dragging along the road, holding down what I would think is about 20-25 tons of concrete, same size straps as I use 4 of to tie down my one ton race car.
So what should would you use? I used to use chains for steel and I would use the same for concrete or have things changed since I last did general 35+ years ago?
cahami said:
I also saw this but must have been a bit after you, He had managed to get it round the roundabout and on to the A12 towards london when i saw it. It was pulled over to the side of the road. I did wonder what what he would have to do with it?.
I'm surprised he managed to negotiate the roundabout, the steel headboard was resting on the back of the cab so he must have done more damage doing the first right hander.Gassing Station | Commercial Break | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff