Shafted by the EU vans and trailers now need an O licence

[wack]

For the last 20 years I've run my own light haulage business using a pickup truck

For 15 of those years I've been towing a trailer, it's a 3.5t iveco daily pulling a 3.5t trailer

I've just found out I've got until June to get an operators licence

I'm luckier than most because I did my CPC 15 years ago , when I say luckier I mean it may be viable for me to carry on

Those that don't have a CPC will need to employ a competent person as transport manager for 8 hours per week per vehicle

With diesel at £1.46 a litre , margins getting tighter and now this I can see a lot giving up

Anybody know if I need to do the driver CPC now, I was told last year it didn't apply to 3.5t vehicles towing trailers but they've moved the goalposts since then

Also I can't see whether I need a speed limiter or not as when I'm not towing I dont need to use the tachograph so limiting it doesn't seem right

[lgw]

Goods vehicles, or vehicle / trailer combinations, with a gross weight / gross train weight exceeding 3.5 tonnes (or 1525 kg unladen weight if unplated), (the weight of any trailer not more than 1020 kg unladen weight being discounted,) which are used for the carriage of goods in connection with business, whether for hire and reward or own account, need the relevant operator’s licence.


Should answer all your queries reference dcpc


http://www.drivercpc.org/en/affects/

Edited by lgw on Tuesday 3rd April 20:32

[scdan4]

eh?

You'll have to excuse me, i'm a bit thick and struggle with all the legalese.

Do i need to worry about this towing a light (exact weight unknown, but easily moved by hand) catering trailer with a toyota camry? Currently am confident that I am ok - does this change anything?

[wack]

No you're fine, nothing changes for you as the combination will be under 3500kg

[scdan4]

Thanks.

Although i'm sure its just a matter of time!

Wish they would just feck off and leave us to get on with it......

[powerstroke]

scdan4 said:

Thanks.

Although i'm sure its just a matter of time!

Wish they would just feck off and leave us to get on with it......

I wish we had a goverment that would tell the EU to Feck off!!!! this country could be great again ....

[wack]

It's a tax by another name, last week I didn't have to give them anything, this week it's £250 to apply £391 for the licence, if you haven't got a CPC you need to employ someone who has for 8 hours a week, what the hell will they do for 8 hours a week with a transit van and a trailer, paint it

[Steffan]

wack said:

It's a tax by another name, last week I didn't have to give them anything, this week it's £250 to apply £391 for the licence, if you haven't got a CPC you need to employ someone who has for 8 hours a week, what the hell will they do for 8 hours a week with a transit van and a trailer, paint it

Correct.It is tax by another name. In common with so many unnecessary regulations.

Governments spend more than they can find from Taxation. Then they spend more than they can borrow in the name of the Taxpayers. Then they print more than they can borrow and get from taxation.

It is the ever increasing government borrowing, government taxation and government funny money printing that is ruining the country.

But that does not worry the government.

Their personal wealth and offshore money, and inflation proofed pension, and next job in the private sector are all secured.

So why should they care?

[R0G]

wack said:

For the last 20 years I've run my own light haulage business using a pickup truck

For 15 of those years I've been towing a trailer, it's a 3.5t iveco daily pulling a 3.5t trailer

I've just found out I've got until June to get an operators licence

Pity you cannot use a dual purpose vehicle and trailer as that would have got you out of the O licence
How come you can wait until June?

wack said:

Anybody know if I need to do the driver CPC now, I was told last year it didn't apply to 3.5t vehicles towing trailers but they've moved the goalposts since then

Only need that if the towing vehicle is plated at more than 3500 kgs GVW

wack said:

Also I can't see whether I need a speed limiter or not as when I'm not towing I dont need to use the tachograph so limiting it doesn't seem right

No legal requirement for a speed limiter on a B category vehicle

EU tacho regs - I hope you are recording all the work when not towing for UK domestic regs as that will also count as 'other work' for the EU regs
CAVEAT - that does not include PRIVATE driving but be careful as commercially driving from point A to point B and then 'clocking off' to drive privately back from B to A will not count - that is still commercial driving

[GC8]

How would someone in that situation record out of scope driving as anything other, where tachographs record driving time automatically?

[wack]

R0G said:

wack said:

For the last 20 years I've run my own light haulage business using a pickup truck

For 15 of those years I've been towing a trailer, it's a 3.5t iveco daily pulling a 3.5t trailer

I've just found out I've got until June to get an operators licence

Pity you cannot use a dual purpose vehicle and trailer as that would have got you out of the O licence
How come you can wait until June?

wack said:

Anybody know if I need to do the driver CPC now, I was told last year it didn't apply to 3.5t vehicles towing trailers but they've moved the goalposts since then

Only need that if the towing vehicle is plated at more than 3500 kgs GVW

wack said:

Also I can't see whether I need a speed limiter or not as when I'm not towing I dont need to use the tachograph so limiting it doesn't seem right

No legal requirement for a speed limiter on a B category vehicle

EU tacho regs - I hope you are recording all the work when not towing for UK domestic regs as that will also count as 'other work' for the EU regs
CAVEAT - that does not include PRIVATE driving but be careful as commercially driving from point A to point B and then 'clocking off' to drive privately back from B to A will not count - that is still commercial driving

Thanks for that info, one less headache to worry about

They've allowed 6 months where they're not prosecuting to allow us to comply

I don't do any other work , even when I'm not towing I use the tachograph and stick to the 4/2 hours and required breaks, it'd be a right pita to keep records without using the tachograph

I have a defender as well and seriously thought about putting a tachograph in it but I couldn't face towing 400 miles with it

I thought about a newer 110 high capacity pickup and trailer but I'm not sure I'd fancy driving it any distance

I'm using an iveco daily pickup and 3.5t trailer , it tows really well even fully loaded , I wouldn't want to spend a packet on a 110 to find it terrified me every time I took it out.

It's going to cost me another £72 for the application now as I'm under the 9 week time it takes them to set the licence up.

[R0G]

GC8 said:

How would someone in that situation record out of scope driving as anything other, where tachographs record driving time automatically?

When in out-of-scope the recording equipment may be recording driving but it will be counted as other work if under UK domestic regs at the time or not as anything is private driving

Those checking the records will be aware of this and can be easily backed up with a diary as well as tacho and domestic records

The 4.5 hours driving time break only needs to be done for 4.5 hours of EU regs driving time

[GC8]

Back to a log book then, essentially?

Heaven forbid that anyone having to work in that manner ever takes their vehicle abroad, as the first print out on foreign soil will bring a jackpot fine!

[R0G]

GC8 said:

Back to a log book then, essentially?

Heaven forbid that anyone having to work in that manner ever takes their vehicle abroad, as the first print out on foreign soil will bring a jackpot fine!

The out-of-scope would still be legal abroad and counted as other work for the EU regs

[GC8]

Perfectly legal, but try explaining that to a Gendarme who speaks pidgin English and has Euro signs in his eyes... Ever since theyve been able to fine for any infractions that they find, not just those committed in their own country, then its been even more about the money...

[R0G]

GC8 said:

Perfectly legal, but try explaining that to a Gendarme who speaks pidgin English and has Euro signs in his eyes... Ever since theyve been able to fine for any infractions that they find, not just those committed in their own country, then its been even more about the money...

If an official with a gun says you are naughty then there is little anyone can do but the actual law is the same across the EU

[wack]

I've dug my CPC certificate out

It's dated June 1996 issued by RSA

All the references I can find to valid CPC certificates are issued by OCR

I assume this certificate is still valid as I went to night school for weeks to get it then passed 2 exams

Anybody know for sure ?

[GC8]

If you have a CPC, then you have a CPC. Look at it this way: how could yours expire when many people are still operating with a grandfathered CPC, never having been in a classroom?

[wack]

What youre saying makes sense but It's the government, they change the rules when they want money .

[iguana]

lgw said:

Goods vehicles, or vehicle / trailer combinations, with a gross weight / gross train weight exceeding 3.5 tonnes (or 1525 kg unladen weight if unplated), (the weight of any trailer not more than 1020 kg unladen weight being discounted,) which are used for the carriage of goods in connection with business, whether for hire and reward or own account, need the relevant operator’s licence.


Should answer all your queries reference dcpc


http://www.drivercpc.org/en/affects/

Edited by lgw on Tuesday 3rd April 20:32

Where did you get that from?

Last info i read from the vosa changes to operatör licencing rules för vehicles under 3.5t towing small trailers pdf on 23 dec 11

Which ståtes you Will be exempt from o licencing "unless you are operating för hire or reward"

You Will require a standard o licence when you are carrying other peoples goods "för hire or reward"

Im on phone now so cant link to that pdf, can do tonight but its easy to find on line.