Toyota Yaris Issue - Need some help
Discussion
Evening all,
Looking for some advice regarding an 08 plate 1.3 toyota yaris (vvti) automatic that is driving me mental
Car is the Mrs runaround and it has an intermittent starting problem - sometimes the car starts straight away, other times it cranks once and dies, other times when you turn the key nothing at all will happen. So far the following has been done:
New battery
New spark plugs
OEM alternator fitted
Oil/filter changes
New starter relay
Key fob battery replaced
Battery grounds checked - all good
The battery is good - 12.4v when engine off, 14.2 when the car does start.
I have pulled out the integrated relay pack and tested this as per the workshop manual - there is no ohms reading between b4 and c1 when bench tested, so a replacement is on the way but not sure if this will fix it or not - i have also ordered a new ignition switch as it was cheap enough and easy to do so thought I would try that as well (should be here this week)
Apart from the above, does anyone have any other ideas? Currently loosing my mind with this and problem is getting worse
I was initially thinking fuel pump but think the problem is an electrical gremlin between the ignition and the relays which would explain why sometimes it cranks, sometimes it does nothing (lights radio all workr etc with no dimming)
Any help solving this massively appreciated (or an idea of what to look at next)
Looking for some advice regarding an 08 plate 1.3 toyota yaris (vvti) automatic that is driving me mental
Car is the Mrs runaround and it has an intermittent starting problem - sometimes the car starts straight away, other times it cranks once and dies, other times when you turn the key nothing at all will happen. So far the following has been done:
New battery
New spark plugs
OEM alternator fitted
Oil/filter changes
New starter relay
Key fob battery replaced
Battery grounds checked - all good
The battery is good - 12.4v when engine off, 14.2 when the car does start.
I have pulled out the integrated relay pack and tested this as per the workshop manual - there is no ohms reading between b4 and c1 when bench tested, so a replacement is on the way but not sure if this will fix it or not - i have also ordered a new ignition switch as it was cheap enough and easy to do so thought I would try that as well (should be here this week)
Apart from the above, does anyone have any other ideas? Currently loosing my mind with this and problem is getting worse
I was initially thinking fuel pump but think the problem is an electrical gremlin between the ignition and the relays which would explain why sometimes it cranks, sometimes it does nothing (lights radio all workr etc with no dimming)
Any help solving this massively appreciated (or an idea of what to look at next)
It sounds like a possible inhibiter switch failure. Either the park/neutral in the gear selector mechanism, or the brake pedal. These are what allows the starting circuit to engage allowing the car to start. If either sensor is faulty then starting will abort either before duty cycle of in between. Check these too.
You say you have checked the earths, I don't want to sound picky/argumentative but did you REALLY check them as in remove, clean, check condition & replace nice & tight, that means all earths as in battery to chassis chassis to engine?
I only ask because they can look OK & still be a bit iffy & your issue sounds like it could be battery/wiring related.
While you are there do the same (obviously with care) to the main 12v feeds to/from battery/starter/alternator/fuse box, ensuring you have your radio code etc first.
I only ask because they can look OK & still be a bit iffy & your issue sounds like it could be battery/wiring related.
While you are there do the same (obviously with care) to the main 12v feeds to/from battery/starter/alternator/fuse box, ensuring you have your radio code etc first.
When it fails to proceed should be possible to run a jump lead direct to the starter terminal, prove the starter itself is good.
Re the suggested inhibitor switching, very possible.
Had that issue on our Outback, simple enough fix on that, when in P which was obviously most used position for starting now and again no go, when this happened simply moving the lever to N (start also available in N) she'd fire straight up.
Don't suppose yon Yaris has a 2 position possible?
Re the suggested inhibitor switching, very possible.
Had that issue on our Outback, simple enough fix on that, when in P which was obviously most used position for starting now and again no go, when this happened simply moving the lever to N (start also available in N) she'd fire straight up.
Don't suppose yon Yaris has a 2 position possible?
Thanks all for the help with this - will start trying to narrow the problem down further while I am waiting for the other parts to arrive.
@E-BMW/Steveo3002 - I did remove the grounds and put them on tight then used a multimeter to run a continuity test (all came up ok)
Might be a silly question, but when you say use a jump lead as an extra earth, I just want to check the process - if I put the lead on the negative battery terminal, then the other end to the ground (e.g. negative terminal to the ground on the car frame) then if the car starts straight away, I should replace that ground?
@peter/smint - had not thought of the gear position sensor - the Yaris oes have P and N so I will try switching between the two
Thanks all for helping with this its really appreciated - I am ok with most car repairs but electrics always hurt my head
@E-BMW/Steveo3002 - I did remove the grounds and put them on tight then used a multimeter to run a continuity test (all came up ok)
Might be a silly question, but when you say use a jump lead as an extra earth, I just want to check the process - if I put the lead on the negative battery terminal, then the other end to the ground (e.g. negative terminal to the ground on the car frame) then if the car starts straight away, I should replace that ground?
@peter/smint - had not thought of the gear position sensor - the Yaris oes have P and N so I will try switching between the two
Thanks all for helping with this its really appreciated - I am ok with most car repairs but electrics always hurt my head
andywilliams1187 said:
Thanks all for the help with this - will start trying to narrow the problem down further while I am waiting for the other parts to arrive.
@E-BMW/Steveo3002 - I did remove the grounds and put them on tight then used a multimeter to run a continuity test (all came up ok)
That sort of continuity test won't tell you how much current it'll pass, one strand of wire will pass.@E-BMW/Steveo3002 - I did remove the grounds and put them on tight then used a multimeter to run a continuity test (all came up ok)
Huzzah said:
andywilliams1187 said:
Thanks all for the help with this - will start trying to narrow the problem down further while I am waiting for the other parts to arrive.
@E-BMW/Steveo3002 - I did remove the grounds and put them on tight then used a multimeter to run a continuity test (all came up ok)
That sort of continuity test won't tell you how much current it'll pass, one strand of wire will pass.@E-BMW/Steveo3002 - I did remove the grounds and put them on tight then used a multimeter to run a continuity test (all came up ok)
Still no confirmation but if you looked at them & checked they are good stands more of a chance.
andywilliams1187 said:
@E-BMW/Steveo3002 - I did remove the grounds and put them on tight then used a multimeter to run a continuity test (all came up ok)
Might be a silly question, but when you say use a jump lead as an extra earth, I just want to check the process - if I put the lead on the negative battery terminal, then the other end to the ground (e.g. negative terminal to the ground on the car frame) then if the car starts straight away, I should replace that ground?
Pretty much, yes.Might be a silly question, but when you say use a jump lead as an extra earth, I just want to check the process - if I put the lead on the negative battery terminal, then the other end to the ground (e.g. negative terminal to the ground on the car frame) then if the car starts straight away, I should replace that ground?
You can use the test on any high-powered/main earth lead.
Battery - to chassis.
Battery - to engine.
If one works every time, that is likely the culprit.
Evening all,
Just to give an update on this today (weirdly car has been running ok all day) - I have tried to do a more indepth test on the grounds I could locate:
Ground 1 - Negative battery terminal to frame (Image 2)
Continuity - Good
Battery + to Ground - Engine off - 12.72 volts. Engine On - 14.29 (both readings matching the voltage on the battery)
Ground 2 (I think this is a ground anyway) - Postive battery terminal to engine (Image 1)
Continuity - Good
Battery + to Ground - Engine off - 12.72 volts. Engine On - 14.35 (both readings matching the voltage on the battery - engine had been running a while at this point)
I am struggling to find the main ground strap from the engine to the frame - I have been under the car this evening looking for it but will look again on Wednesday (away with work tomorrow) - ignition switch should be arriving tomorrow so will fit that on wednesday as well just in case this is the issue
Just to give an update on this today (weirdly car has been running ok all day) - I have tried to do a more indepth test on the grounds I could locate:
Ground 1 - Negative battery terminal to frame (Image 2)
Continuity - Good
Battery + to Ground - Engine off - 12.72 volts. Engine On - 14.29 (both readings matching the voltage on the battery)
Ground 2 (I think this is a ground anyway) - Postive battery terminal to engine (Image 1)
Continuity - Good
Battery + to Ground - Engine off - 12.72 volts. Engine On - 14.35 (both readings matching the voltage on the battery - engine had been running a while at this point)
I am struggling to find the main ground strap from the engine to the frame - I have been under the car this evening looking for it but will look again on Wednesday (away with work tomorrow) - ignition switch should be arriving tomorrow so will fit that on wednesday as well just in case this is the issue
Edited by andywilliams1187 on Monday 29th December 18:09
Edited by andywilliams1187 on Monday 29th December 18:10
andywilliams1187 said:
Ground 2 (I think this is a ground anyway) - Postive battery terminal to engine (Image 1)
Can't really see what you are referring to in the pic but by definition a "ground" can't go from a battery + to engine as it would be a short from + to -.Is it a 12v cable to the starter motor by any chance?
In your hunt for the engine ground, sadly it could be literally anywhere in the engine bay, there is no norm for it's position, but don't forget it could be a braided bare wire type strap.
A couple of quick thoughts.
Firstly you are wasting your time testing anything unless you are doing it when the car is in a non-start condition.
Secondly, can you be specific about the times that "nothing at all will happen". Does it crank but not attempt to start or is there absolutely no crank? On the times that it "cranks and then dies" do you mean it attempts to actually start and then dies or just that it cranks briefly and then will not crank?
Firstly you are wasting your time testing anything unless you are doing it when the car is in a non-start condition.
Secondly, can you be specific about the times that "nothing at all will happen". Does it crank but not attempt to start or is there absolutely no crank? On the times that it "cranks and then dies" do you mean it attempts to actually start and then dies or just that it cranks briefly and then will not crank?
Hi Steve,
I will run the checks again next time it doesn't start - Mrs has told me it fired up straight away this morning
To be specific, the following will happen:
Key in ignition, foot on the brake pedal (automatic) turn to start - either of the following will happen:
The crank will turn once and then nothing else happens
The crank will not turn, the key just moves freely to the start position but there is no turning of the crank and nothing else happens.
Dashboard stays lit and lights/radio etc all work regardless of the above to scenarios
To start the car, remove the key from the ignition, wait a minute or two and then try again, usually starts straight away. Runs fine when started.
Starting problem is very intermittent - sometimes happens when car has been left for a few hours (usually overnight, trying to start it first thing in the morning). Other times it can run fine for a few days, park it up when going shopping, Mrs comes back from shopping and car won't start
Car had a new battery about a month ago. New OEM starter motor fitted two weeks ago. Neither have made any difference to the issue.
Next time it won't start, I will check the grounds again and se if anything is more obvious
I will run the checks again next time it doesn't start - Mrs has told me it fired up straight away this morning
To be specific, the following will happen:
Key in ignition, foot on the brake pedal (automatic) turn to start - either of the following will happen:
The crank will turn once and then nothing else happens
The crank will not turn, the key just moves freely to the start position but there is no turning of the crank and nothing else happens.
Dashboard stays lit and lights/radio etc all work regardless of the above to scenarios
To start the car, remove the key from the ignition, wait a minute or two and then try again, usually starts straight away. Runs fine when started.
Starting problem is very intermittent - sometimes happens when car has been left for a few hours (usually overnight, trying to start it first thing in the morning). Other times it can run fine for a few days, park it up when going shopping, Mrs comes back from shopping and car won't start
Car had a new battery about a month ago. New OEM starter motor fitted two weeks ago. Neither have made any difference to the issue.
Next time it won't start, I will check the grounds again and se if anything is more obvious
E-bmw said:
Can't really see what you are referring to in the pic but by definition a "ground" can't go from a battery + to engine as it would be a short from + to -.
Is it a 12v cable to the starter motor by any chance?
In your hunt for the engine ground, sadly it could be literally anywhere in the engine bay, there is no norm for it's position, but don't forget it could be a braided bare wire type strap.
My fault this - I retraced the wire last night - it is defo coming from the negative terminal. The cable from the negative splits into two - one goes to the frame the other round the back of the battery tray to the blockIs it a 12v cable to the starter motor by any chance?
In your hunt for the engine ground, sadly it could be literally anywhere in the engine bay, there is no norm for it's position, but don't forget it could be a braided bare wire type strap.
I am sure if you had a diagnostic computer, you could use live data on the transmission control module to see what position the gear selector is in (ie, Neutral, Park, Drive, Reverse, etc). It may even log a code if it is unable to determine the position, which would be intermittent/historic/stored if its happened in the past. It would give good direction and save flapping about with negative cables etc when the fault lies elsewhere.
So it was playing up before and after you fitted the battery?
It could relate to the inhibitor system but if it did I wouldn’t expect it to sometimes crank once and then refuse.
Tricky one unless you can get it to play up for long enough to attack it with serial data and a wiring diagram.
It could relate to the inhibitor system but if it did I wouldn’t expect it to sometimes crank once and then refuse.
Tricky one unless you can get it to play up for long enough to attack it with serial data and a wiring diagram.
Steve H said:
So it was playing up before and after you fitted the battery?
It could relate to the inhibitor system but if it did I wouldn t expect it to sometimes crank once and then refuse.
Tricky one unless you can get it to play up for long enough to attack it with serial data and a wiring diagram.
Yes sir - issue started around 6 momths ago and has gotten worse but is becoming more common. Initial thought was the battery due to the age of the vehicle so swopped it out for a new one. Also thought the same with the starter and with it being a quick swop and relativley cheap, changed that as well. Problem still persists. Im still thinking it is something electrical just due to how it acts - its as if a signal to the starter is being blocked so I am still going to change the ignition switch (10 minute job) and the integrated relay as I have hear that this can be a common issue with starting problems and its a very quick swop over It could relate to the inhibitor system but if it did I wouldn t expect it to sometimes crank once and then refuse.
Tricky one unless you can get it to play up for long enough to attack it with serial data and a wiring diagram.
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