Wheel spigot rings advice

Wheel spigot rings advice

Author
Discussion

Rusty_

Original Poster:

140 posts

95 months

Sunday 20th April
quotequote all
Hi all,

I had some aftermarket wheels fitted yesterday to my 08 Mustang. These wheels were made for the this model car and are supposed to be a direct fit.

But the fitter said there was a bit of deviation and that I needed to buy some spigot rings..

That's fine, but I have no idea what to buy! I know the wheel bore size, but not sure where to go from there. Should I buy multiple spigots that are close to cars hub bore size and then see what fits? I've never had to do this before as never bought aftermarket wheels.

The car drives fine and I've not noticed any vibrations, etc. but apparently driving without them is a a bad idea.

Thanks in advance

E-bmw

11,043 posts

167 months

Sunday 20th April
quotequote all
You need to know the size differences between the wheels and your hub spigots to know what you need to buy.

You will need a set of callipers to measure them or alternatively, just take it back to them and get the sizes from them.

Richard-D

1,468 posts

79 months

Sunday 20th April
quotequote all
He's fobbed you off and knows the wheels are either wrong or missing the spigot rings. "A bit of deviation" is someone trying very hard not to admit there's a problem.

Rusty_

Original Poster:

140 posts

95 months

Sunday 20th April
quotequote all
Thanks both.

Just got clarify, the fitter in question just put tyres on the wheels and fitted them to the car. The wheels I bought myself and had them imported from America. Loads of Mustangs have them fitted and they're supposed to be a direct fit. The manufacturer informed me that they don't come with spigots.

So, it's a case of getting the wheels off again, and measuring the wheel's bore against the hub's bore? I might employ the services of another tyre place to ensure I'm getting it right, as I'll probably get it wrong..



Edited by Rusty_ on Sunday 20th April 09:45


Edited by Rusty_ on Sunday 20th April 09:45

GreenV8S

30,855 posts

299 months

Sunday 20th April
quotequote all
Don't you have the original wheels? You need to make the bore of the new wheels the same as those. If you don't have the spec for the new wheels you'll need to take one of those off to measure it. Or you could ask any of the other people who have done this, if you believe it's a common thing to do.

oakdale

1,944 posts

217 months

Sunday 20th April
quotequote all
I wouldn't worry about not having spigot rings, they're only there to help locate the wheel when fitting.

A correctly tightened wheel doesn't need a spigot, the greatest forces on wheel security are during heavy cornering and heavy braking, the spigot does nothing in those situations.
Some spigot rings are made of plastic anyway.

Rusty_

Original Poster:

140 posts

95 months

Sunday 20th April
quotequote all
Thanks very much everyone. At least I can still drive around in it for now. I was a bit concerned on whether this was a serious problem or not.

I bit of digging has revealed old Mustang forum posts of others with the same issue. Apparently the gap is. 2.1mm. So not really a direct fit, as the manufacturer told me they were..

Some say to leave it and others say sort it. I'm not noticing any vibrations etc, so maybe I buy some and get it sorted at next opportunity?

Pica-Pica

15,196 posts

99 months

Sunday 20th April
quotequote all
Your wheel nuts, or bolts, have a chamfer where they go into a mating chamfer around the holes in the wheels. It is that chamfer which locates the wheel to the fixing thread on the hub and nothing else. After that the clamping force is obtained by the nut/bolt torque.

Lincsls1

3,688 posts

155 months

Sunday 20th April
quotequote all
Personally, I'd like to know that the wheel centre bore is the same as the cars hub, if that requires a spigot ring then so be it. Most aftermarket alloys use spigot rings of different sizes for different cars.
That being said, if the wheels were 'off centre' when tightened up, you'd feel it when driving. If it drives correctly then I'd say you don't have a problem.
As others have said the tapered wheel hole design and wheel bolts naturally centre the wheel when tightening up.

ChocolateFrog

31,777 posts

188 months

Sunday 20th April
quotequote all
My winter wheels on my daily (not a Mustang) requires 1mm thick spigot rings.

Hardly anything but I still wouldn't want to run without them.

Smint

2,357 posts

50 months

Sunday 20th April
quotequote all
You need the correct fit at the spigot, the wheels will not be centred without them and will be oscillating which will feel like massively unbalanced tyres/wheels.

Megaflow

10,383 posts

240 months

Sunday 20th April
quotequote all
Pica-Pica said:
Your wheel nuts, or bolts, have a chamfer where they go into a mating chamfer around the holes in the wheels. It is that chamfer which locates the wheel to the fixing thread on the hub and nothing else. After that the clamping force is obtained by the nut/bolt torque.
Yep. In fact the clamping force of the wheels nuts is probably sufficient that the spigot is utterly redundant.

Many years ago I worked for a company who designed the rear wheel spindle for the mk2 Rover 200, it was designed with a turned wheel bearing diameter, not ground, the clamping force provided by the nut securing the wheel bearing means the shaft is redundant once the nut has been correctly tightened.

Smint

2,357 posts

50 months

Sunday 20th April
quotequote all
The wheel maker should know which spigot rings are reqd for a particlaur fitment and should supply them if needed.

I had exactly this situation over 20 years ago, bought some really nice French made wheels (Phoenix if i recall) for my W124 coupe, unbeknown to me the wheel shop forgot to fit the spigot rings, once up to speed the oscillations from various wheels not centered was most disconcerting, once the spigot rings were fitted normal service resumed.

Some wheels are and were no doubt fine without being a snug fit on the hub but this is by no means the case for all.

Rusty_

Original Poster:

140 posts

95 months

Sunday 20th April
quotequote all
Cheers guys. I thought the spigot did more than just guide the wheel to the hub. The car is driving great at the moment, so I'm going to order some spigots and get them fitted when the car is next in for something. Thanks


FiF

46,792 posts

266 months

Sunday 20th April
quotequote all
Hi, coming from experience of investigations into lost / loose wheel incidents on various vehicles, mainly heavies and buses statistically, so bear that in mind.

Both sides of this are right to some extent, as always devil in the detail.

A spigot is essentially for the purpose of ensuring the centralisation of the wheel during fitting. Where a spigot ring is needed due to fitting non standard wheels then that ring can indeed be plastic and people often wrongly think that the spigot takes some of the load of the vehicle. It does not. The load is taken by the frictional and other forces generated by the *correct* clamping forces of the wheel fastenings.

However wheels have been lost and come loose when there is a mismatch between the spigot and the hole and the wheel is not fixed correctly. Indeed in truck workshops where various makes of vehicles are maintained you can get fitters trying to fit a wheel to a vehicle where the centre hole is too small resorting to hand grinding out the spigot hole, with disastrous results.

The issue is made worse dependant upon the design of the fastenings. Where these are the ones with a cup and cone arrangement it's true that as these are tightened the wheel naturally self centres. That is assuming the tightening is done correctly,8 gradually and in a reasonable sequence plus wheels and fastenings all clean and undamaged. A chimpanzee with an airgun that rams a wheel on, and runs a single fastening up full welly and then carries on with the rest might get away with it, might not.

There are some wheels and fastener designs where the nut has a captive washer where the wheel washer mating surface is essentially flat and location is much more dependant on the spigot, and is typically due to the way the bolt washer arrangement fits in the wheel bolt hole. Clearly with these there has to be some clearance so the spigot fit is more important.

In short, personally, if fitting non standard wheels where the centre hole / spigot sizing suggested a spigot ring required I would not run them without a correctly sized ring in place, no issue if it were plastic.

Problems are less apparent on cars simply due to designers recognising that untrained owners might be fitting wheels, loads are lower, and designs allow for this, ie cup and cone design much more typical. For heavies for a long time the cup and cone design gave so much friction under tightening that in some cases it was difficult to hit the correct clamping pressure, sometimes being too low, sometimes being too high resulting in elastic deformation of threads and studs.

In short, whilst the most important nut in the car is the one behind the wheel, not far behind are the wheel fixings.

Sorry seen to much devastation from getting it wrong.

Rusty_

Original Poster:

140 posts

95 months

Monday 21st April
quotequote all
Not at all. I appreciate the insightful response.

I definitely get the spigot role now. I'm not noticing any vibrations while driving whatsoever, but regardless, I've ordered the correct spigots and am going to get them fitted ASAP as I need the tracking sorted anyway.

Hopefully the wheels don't fall off on my way to the shop!

Thanks